Israel/Palestine

[TDub]

Why? it's easier for them and it sells and gets clicks. Look at you. You absolutely eat up unvetted hot takes as long as they pass through the correct algorithm to get to your feed.

[jfish26]

I don't want to go full "enemy of the people" here, but the media has a LOT to answer for -- with real-life consequences as a result.

For real.

It’d be nice if journalists would do more actual journalism here, rather than taking these “well one (obviously biased) source says…” sorts of hot takes and running with it.

...because irresponsible reporting has consequences:

Man, all that “hospital damage was Hamas” seems once again pretty gaslighty. as if Israel is NOT indiscriminately bombing the fuck out of Gaza either way.

But, let’s roll with it, and assume Hamas did somehow get a bunch of long range missiles into one of the most intensely surveilled places in the world.

At the very least, it’s a testament to Israeli security being a clown show.

[KUTradition]

cognitive dissonance at its finest

[mjl2]

I don't want to go full "enemy of the people" here, but the media has a LOT to answer for -- with real-life consequences as a result.

Awful, awful consequences.
The entire Arab world is uprising about this and they aren't going to go back and fact check.
This is really, really bad.

[jfish26]

I don't want to go full "enemy of the people" here, but the media has a LOT to answer for -- with real-life consequences as a result.

Israel should provide objective, documentary evidence it has when things like this happen (and otherwise not engage on this every single time).

As much as no one wants to hear this (because no one WANTS this to be true), it simply is true that Hamas makes civilian casualties unavoidable (absent appeasement, which would have even graver consequences). And what's more, it does so purposefully. Because of what mjl2 says in the post above this one.

[KUTradition]

if the pentagon does, in fact have evidence of the source of the hospital explosion, they had better publicize it

for some, the damage is done and it won’t matter. but, particularly from a political/diplomatic perspective in trying to engage with regional leaders, publicizing as much evidence as possible that would absolve Israel of direct responsibility would seem to me to be a priority

[jfish26]

if the pentagon does, in fact have evidence of the source of the hospital explosion, they had better publicize it

for some, the damage is done and it won’t matter. but, particularly from a political/diplomatic perspective in trying to engage with regional leaders, publicizing as much evidence as possible that would absolve Israel of direct responsibility would seem to me to be a priority

Seems like that's where it's going.

[Shirley]

if the pentagon does, in fact have evidence of the source of the hospital explosion, they had better publicize it

for some, the damage is done and it won’t matter. but, particularly from a political/diplomatic perspective in trying to engage with regional leaders, publicizing as much evidence as possible that would absolve Israel of direct responsibility would seem to me to be a priority

Seems like that's where it's going.

I'm not sure it applies in this instance, especially under the circumstances, but being too transparent about data and information like this can give the people you're observing extremely valuable information.

[KUTradition]

if the pentagon does, in fact have evidence of the source of the hospital explosion, they had better publicize it

for some, the damage is done and it won’t matter. but, particularly from a political/diplomatic perspective in trying to engage with regional leaders, publicizing as much evidence as possible that would absolve Israel of direct responsibility would seem to me to be a priority

Seems like that's where it's going.

I'm not sure it applies in this instance, especially under the circumstances, but being too transparent about data and information like this can give the people you're observing extremely valuable information.

but what’s more important?

salvaging support from regional leaders, or not showing a bit of “our” hand to hamas

[jfish26]

if the pentagon does, in fact have evidence of the source of the hospital explosion, they had better publicize it

for some, the damage is done and it won’t matter. but, particularly from a political/diplomatic perspective in trying to engage with regional leaders, publicizing as much evidence as possible that would absolve Israel of direct responsibility would seem to me to be a priority

Seems like that's where it's going.

I'm not sure it applies in this instance, especially under the circumstances, but being too transparent about data and information like this can give the people you're observing extremely valuable information.

I dunno, feels like we can disclose imagery in a way that gives nothing up; "here's what it looks like when a bomb goes off, here's what it looks like when a rocket misfires, here's what it looks like when an ammo dump catches fire." Maybe you use Ukraine/Russia exemplary images for shits and giggles.

Can you win the PR war? No. But if you get this to where the rubes of the world are left with a "well, how do we KNOW that Israel didn't fire a Hamas-style rocket at the hospital to make it LOOK like an accident that blew up an ammo store in a hospital!?!!!?"...that's probably as much as you can expect.

[DCHawk1]

Saudi Arabian state media issued a warning for all Saudis to leave Lebanon...

[mjl2]

Seems like that's where it's going.

I'm not sure it applies in this instance, especially under the circumstances, but being too transparent about data and information like this can give the people you're observing extremely valuable information.

I dunno, feels like we can disclose imagery in a way that gives nothing up; "here's what it looks like when a bomb goes off, here's what it looks like when a rocket misfires, here's what it looks like when an ammo dump catches fire." Maybe you use Ukraine/Russia exemplary images for shits and giggles.

Can you win the PR war? No. But if you get this to where the rubes of the world are left with a "well, how do we KNOW that Israel didn't fire a Hamas-style rocket at the hospital to make it LOOK like an accident that blew up an ammo store in a hospital!?!!!?"...that's probably as much as you can expect.

Except they know it was PIJ, not Hamas.
The fact that they know that (assuming this is true) indicates some likely spying on PIJ

[japhy]

Can you win the PR war? No. But if you get this to where the rubes of the world are left with a "well, how do we KNOW that Israel didn't fire a Hamas-style rocket at the hospital to make it LOOK like an accident that blew up an ammo store in a hospital!?!!!?"...that's probably as much as you can expect.

Jesus, you are starting to be able think like Qusdahl. That should worry you.

[Sparko]

Agreed MJL2. It benefited Israel in no way too. Cold logic of info ops.

[jfish26]

Can you win the PR war? No. But if you get this to where the rubes of the world are left with a "well, how do we KNOW that Israel didn't fire a Hamas-style rocket at the hospital to make it LOOK like an accident that blew up an ammo store in a hospital!?!!!?"...that's probably as much as you can expect.

Jesus, you are starting to be able think like Qusdahl. That should worry you.

To be fair, Randy's provided a pretty solid playbook to crib from.

[Sparko]

No shit, Fish. Randy contorted some logic.

[jfish26]

No shit, Fish. Randy contorted some logic.

And of course the through-line speaks for itself: misinformation and illogic isn't issue-specific. To me, anyway, that suggests the existence of a coordinated effort to divide the West against itself.

(Also supporting this theory is, of course, the fact that Randy and his ilk are desperate to convince us that there is in fact a central menace at play, but it's the WEF and Blackrock and the Biden Crime Family and blah blah blah. Every accusation...)

[ousdahl]

cognitive dissonance at its finest

Help a brother out. How is this cognitive dissonance?

[ousdahl]

I don't want to go full "enemy of the people" here, but the media has a LOT to answer for -- with real-life consequences as a result.

For real.

It’d be nice if journalists would do more actual journalism here, rather than taking these “well one (obviously biased) source says…” sorts of hot takes and running with it.

...because irresponsible reporting has consequences:

Man, all that “hospital damage was Hamas” seems once again pretty gaslighty. as if Israel is NOT indiscriminately bombing the fuck out of Gaza either way.

But, let’s roll with it, and assume Hamas did somehow get a bunch of long range missiles into one of the most intensely surveilled places in the world.

At the very least, it’s a testament to Israeli security being a clown show.

?


I’m not sure this is the zinger you think it is.

[KUTradition]

sounds like entry of humanitarian aid to gaza has been approved by Israel