Israel/Palestine

[RainbowsandUnicorns]

Well, that's concerning. Care to elaborate on the UN's long history of rabid antisemitism?

And here, I thought the worst thing they did was give Russia the time of day!

Speaking of "beyond help," is the UN's long history of rabid antisemitism worse than the Islamophobia being exhibited once again across much of the western world, including very shamelessly in this thread in real time?

Respectfully......

Yes, I will step in and elaborate on the UN's long history of anti-semitism.
I could put it in my own words but I feel this explains it much better than I can.
Of course this is from "one side" but I feel it's valid none the less.
https://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/an ... ed-nations

Yes, I absolutely feel the UN's long history of antisemitism is worse than the "Islamophobia" being exhibited in this thread.
I have a BIG problem with Islamic TERRORISTS - and no problem expressing it.
I also have no problem with Islamic people who are caring and loving people just trying to survive in peace. Such as two co-workers of mine who I can and will openly and truthfully say are kinder and more friendly than many of my Jewish co-workers.
I and many other Jews sincerely mean it when I/we say my/or heart goes out to the innocent civilians in Gaza who do not support Hamas and have suffered because of Israeli retaliation.
Many others sincerely mean it when they say fuck ALL of Israel and wipe it and ALL of its people off the face of the Earth.
To me, there lies the major difference/s.

[RainbowsandUnicorns]

see bro, it's posts like that that make me feel like maybe it's worth persisting.

so let's talk numbers.

one thing I've been wondering is, how many members are in Hamas? What proportion of Gazans are they?

A quick search suggests, around 25,000. https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q ... i=89978449

So 25,000/2,300,000 people in Gaza, means every .0108 people in Gaza are Hamas. Does that mean the best response really should be for Israel to bomb Gaza far and wide (with a ground invasion pending?), when like 99 percent of people there are (supposedly) non-targets?

And as of a week ago, Israel reported they dropped 6000 bombs on Gaza. https://www.wsj.com/livecoverage/israel ... qytMVO86PU
That's 6000 bombs across 140 square miles.

so 140/6000 = a bomb for every .023 square miles. Is that a reasonable response to Hamas?

And since last week, I kinda don't think they've relented.

Spend a day in Sderot and get back to me on what you feel is fair and isn't fair in regards to what you feel is "reasonable" - and what Israel is and isn't doing.
I spent a day there BEFORE the massacre.

P.S. Sderot is about 2 "square miles".

P.S.S. Have some fun with this.
https://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/pa ... nst-israel

[TDub]

fuck off.

It may be a good time for everyone to take a deep breath. This world of ours is starting a dangerous tail spin…..

in a general sense, I agree.

But, Q constantly spouts ignorant shit, floods the board with drivel that pops up on his algorith, he's as bad as Randy and lobster in that regard. On top of that he pretends to be holier than thou while calling me a literal white piece of shit nazi and essentially calling multiple people nazis and war mongers etc etc.

Why does he always get a pass? Why is he the only member of the board that gets that treatment? All his shit is glossed over, "ah its just the misguided funny man ousie...ha ha"

Fuck him.

[Overlander]

Honestly, I don’t really pay attention to most of what Ousdahl posts, there just isn’t anything there of value to me.

But, I HAVE shared drinks with him, and found him to be a fun dude to hang out with.

[ousdahl]

Honestly, I don’t really pay attention to most of what Ousdahl posts, there just isn’t anything there of value to me.

I read this as, boy do I need to step up my fart jokes around here.

[ousdahl]

fuck off.

It may be a good time for everyone to take a deep breath. This world of ours is starting a dangerous tail spin…..

in a general sense, I agree.

But, Q constantly spouts ignorant shit, floods the board with drivel that pops up on his algorith, he's as bad as Randy and lobster in that regard. On top of that he pretends to be holier than thou while calling me a literal white piece of shit nazi and essentially calling multiple people nazis and war mongers etc etc.

Why does he always get a pass? Why is he the only member of the board that gets that treatment? All his shit is glossed over, "ah its just the misguided funny man ousie...ha ha"

Fuck him.

I certainly don't mean to spout anything ignorant.

And sorry but I just don't think the randy/lobster comparisons apply. Those doods would push fringe sources about kooky hot takes like, "look what some dood on a 4chan message bored said about antt-vaxxer shit!"

I, otoh, say stuff like, "why are YOU GUYS keep ignoring all these credible human rights groups calling Israel an apartheid state! (or shit, why do you guys keep ignoring all these credible western journalists documenting literal fucking nazis in Ukr...oh, never mind.) Shouldn't we try to make sure weapons paid for by you and me aren't being used for an ethnic cleansing!" But it turns out the UN, like the New York Times, was just another wannabe Goebbels, and just another Russian spam bot too

(...well, except for when the UN is comdemning Russia. Only then do we take their allegations of war crimes seriously. It's salad bar outrage. Just go down the buffet line picking and choosing which outrage actually deserves the OuTRaGe! treatment, and which is better to just shrug off as bad guy propaganda...and don't forget the croutons.)

But, I will give you the "holier than thou," I think that's why I'm so annoying here. "Ous, why don't you just shut up about war crimes that don't fit our good-guy-bad-guy world views?!" OK, I will. For the sake of a less shitty message bored experience, if nothing else.

and what the fuck do you mean I get a pass? You realize how many people have given me incredible amounts of shit here, particularly you yourself? If I had a nickel for every time one of you guys called me a Russia supporter, I'd be worth even more than the Evil Rich People thread.

And, sorry again for calling you a nazi. and, AGAIN again, it was all along just analogy taken too far trying to make you realize how much it bothered me to be called pro-Putin.

finally, for real tho, do i think the moniker of "war monger" really does apply to a lot of posters here, whether they want to admit it or not.

[ousdahl]

Well, that's concerning. Care to elaborate on the UN's long history of rabid antisemitism?

And here, I thought the worst thing they did was give Russia the time of day!

Speaking of "beyond help," is the UN's long history of rabid antisemitism worse than the Islamophobia being exhibited once again across much of the western world, including very shamelessly in this thread in real time?

Respectfully......

Yes, I will step in and elaborate on the UN's long history of anti-semitism.
I could put it in my own words but I feel this explains it much better than I can.
Of course this is from "one side" but I feel it's valid none the less.
https://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/an ... ed-nations

Yes, I absolutely feel the UN's long history of antisemitism is worse than the "Islamophobia" being exhibited in this thread.
I have a BIG problem with Islamic TERRORISTS - and no problem expressing it.
I also have no problem with Islamic people who are caring and loving people just trying to survive in peace. Such as two co-workers of mine who I can and will openly and truthfully say are kinder and more friendly than many of my Jewish co-workers.
I and many other Jews sincerely mean it when I/we say my/or heart goes out to the innocent civilians in Gaza who do not support Hamas and have suffered because of Israeli retaliation.
Many others sincerely mean it when they say fuck ALL of Israel and wipe it and ALL of its people off the face of the Earth.
To me, there lies the major difference/s.

gutter, thanks for always being cool. I appreciate you being respectful, even if we're disagreeing on the discussion at hand. I don't recall you ever being too agro toward me, or calling me names, or trying to label me as a Russian spambot or a wannabe Goebbels or ignorant or a liar or anything like that.

thanks for sharing these links too. It's good to be aware of these perspectives.

If I've ever offended you, forgive me. I hope you realize, the last thing I want to be is antisemitic (or otherwise hateful toward anyone, for that matter). and FWIW my views on Israel/palestine has been reshaped, in large part, by a couple of Jewish friends...even if it might be easy to call them/they "qrazy" as just more they/them types. Oh shoot, I might be offending trans people now too. I should just shut up. Carry on!

[DCHawk1]

I'll prob get shit for this too, but...

to what degree might problems like Hamas be a chicken-and-egg sorta thing?

It's an interesting question: which came first, the Jews or the virulent, murderous hatred of them?

As for Hamas and its hatred of the state of Israel, I think a picture may be worth a thousand words:

[dolomite]

How much aid (and who can provide it,)will be enough to sustain the Palestinians in Gaza? Seems like it will have to be a never ending process, with nearly two million people in need.

[Overlander]

How much aid (and who can provide it,)will be enough to sustain the Palestinians in Gaza? Seems like it will have to be a never ending process, with nearly two million people in need.

And…..?

[mjl2]

fuck off.

It may be a good time for everyone to take a deep breath. This world of ours is starting a dangerous tail spin…..

in a general sense, I agree.

But, Q constantly spouts ignorant shit, floods the board with drivel that pops up on his algorith, he's as bad as Randy and lobster in that regard. On top of that he pretends to be holier than thou while calling me a literal white piece of shit nazi and essentially calling multiple people nazis and war mongers etc etc.

Why does he always get a pass? Why is he the only member of the board that gets that treatment? All his shit is glossed over, "ah its just the misguided funny man ousie...ha ha"

Fuck him.

And now you know what it's like to be Israel.

[ousdahl]

I'll prob get shit for this too, but...

to what degree might problems like Hamas be a chicken-and-egg sorta thing?

It's an interesting question: which came first, the Jews or the virulent, murderous hatred of them?

As for Hamas and its hatred of the state of Israel, I think a picture may be worth a thousand words:

gross.

(Remember in the war thread when posters were like, “but maybe that dood actually liberated Ukrai…” nm)

And no one here is denying the Jewish people have been historically hated, and subjected to awful oppression.

The question at hand today is more so, whether that long sad history should give the nation of Israel the green light to commit oppression of their own.

Pretty sure Qusdahl’s hot take here really is little more than, maybe two wrongs don’t make a right. Anything but, just seems at least a little hawkish.

[mjl2]

This brief breakdown of horseshoe theory w/r/t the Ukraine and Israel wars is really spot on:
https://x.com/luiswenus/status/1711910413233721660?s=20

Also, this doesn't matter because any non-evil person knows what Hamas did was awful regardless of whether or not the murdered babies were actually decapitated - but an international group did confirm it:
https://x.com/MattGertz/status/1715848616059756720?s=20

[ousdahl]

look who's posting meme theories from twitter accounts with 400 followers now!

[Shirley]

look who's posting meme theories from twitter accounts with 400 followers now!

Honestly, I don’t really pay attention to most of what Ousdahl posts, there just isn’t anything there of value to me.

But, I HAVE shared drinks with him, and found him to be a fun dude to hang out with.

^^^

If only he knew when to sit down.

[ousdahl]

Honestly, I can take the cue to “sit down” better than being called a liar, Goebbels, a holocaust denier, wait I mean just the same thing as a holocaust denier, a bitch, pro-Putin, and - the bangiest banger of all - not thinking critically.

So, I guess I’ll go sit down.

Now, could anyone please recommend a good slouchy chair in which to sit?

[jfish26]

Honestly, I can take the cue to “sit down” better than being called a liar, Goebbels, a holocaust denier, wait I mean just the same thing as a holocaust denier, a bitch, pro-Putin, and - the bangiest banger of all - not thinking critically.

So, I guess I’ll go sit down.

Now, could anyone please recommend a good slouchy chair in which to sit?

I think the reactions you’re seeing are BECAUSE you otherwise have a solid reputation around these parts. Personally, I don’t like seeing the curious, somewhat-contrarian side of you getting sucked down a weird path.

I think there’s a lane for the sorts of things you’re wanting to bring up - the moral murkiness of all of it, the fundamental blameworthiness of many/most/all actors, etc.

But I also think you’re missing a couple major shifts. Putin waging a conventional war against Ukraine is a massive one. So is our diplomatic response on Israel - Biden couching his advice to Israel in terms of the mistakes made post-9/11, for example - is another.

I’m not the boss of this or any other bored. But personally, my opinion is that 1.3% of your opinions are tarnishing the rest, and the reaction you’re getting is indicative of people not wanting to see that happen.

Which is NOT to say that the only worthy opinions are consensus ones. Far from it. But I personally would take your contrarian points more seriously if you would avoid anchoring yourself to hills that are not worth dying on.

[DCHawk1]

sigh...
https://twitter.com/SBWorkersUnited/sta ... 8308189402

[mjl2]

Some people need to get educated on what JVP is.

[KUTradition]

Some people need to get educated on what JVP is.

https://adl.org/resources/background/jewish-voice-peace

i’d be curious about your take on their take (the ADL’s)…at least on the opening section