If I understand you 99, you're sayingjhawks99 wrote: ↑Thu Oct 26, 2023 9:27 pm This can't be good
https://edition.cnn.com/2023/10/26/poli ... index.html
"We should invade their countries, kill their leaders and convert them to Christianity?"
If I understand you 99, you're sayingjhawks99 wrote: ↑Thu Oct 26, 2023 9:27 pm This can't be good
https://edition.cnn.com/2023/10/26/poli ... index.html
Humbling to learn that after considering them the bad guys for so long.KUTradition wrote: ↑Mon Oct 30, 2023 9:36 am https://www.politico.com/news/magazine/ ... e-00123352
… Official accounts of Russian expansion suggest that Russia simply agglomerated neighboring peoples as part of its defensive acquisition of territory, happily gathering new peoples and new lands into Moscow’s embrace. In Russia’s telling, the word “colonialism” applies to only other empires, not to the Russian one. As Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov recently claimed, Russia has “not stained itself with the bloody crimes of colonialism.”…
Once again: what would you have the US do? Abandon Ukraine, and put our other allies and interests in jeopardy, by putting ourselves in timeout for things the United States did centuries ago now?ousdahl wrote: ↑Mon Oct 30, 2023 11:44 am Oh right on. With all the fuss in the Israel/Palestine thread I was starting to wonder if folks forgot about Ukraine.
Now, manifest destiny….where have we heard that before?
Once again, the issue isn’t violent imperial expansion in itself, so just as it is violent imperial expansion when anyone else does it.
Once again: maybe the US could just admit we do it too? And on some objective level, it’s just not much different?jfish26 wrote: ↑Mon Oct 30, 2023 12:06 pmOnce again: what would you have the US do? Abandon Ukraine, and put our other allies and interests in jeopardy, by putting ourselves in timeout for things the United States did centuries ago now?ousdahl wrote: ↑Mon Oct 30, 2023 11:44 am Oh right on. With all the fuss in the Israel/Palestine thread I was starting to wonder if folks forgot about Ukraine.
Now, manifest destiny….where have we heard that before?
Once again, the issue isn’t violent imperial expansion in itself, so just as it is violent imperial expansion when anyone else does it.
How is "a big part of why Putin invaded Ukraine" not EXACTLY THE SAME THING as "justification for Putin invading Ukraine"?ousdahl wrote: ↑Mon Oct 30, 2023 1:53 pmOnce again: maybe the US could just admit we do it too? And on some objective level, it’s just not much different?jfish26 wrote: ↑Mon Oct 30, 2023 12:06 pmOnce again: what would you have the US do? Abandon Ukraine, and put our other allies and interests in jeopardy, by putting ourselves in timeout for things the United States did centuries ago now?ousdahl wrote: ↑Mon Oct 30, 2023 11:44 am Oh right on. With all the fuss in the Israel/Palestine thread I was starting to wonder if folks forgot about Ukraine.
Now, manifest destiny….where have we heard that before?
Once again, the issue isn’t violent imperial expansion in itself, so just as it is violent imperial expansion when anyone else does it.
And not even centuries ago bro, this shit happens in real time!
Ever heard of the Israel/Palestine thread?
Heck, maybe we could admit that using Ukraine as a pawn to aggressively expand our own military footprint right up to Putin’s doorstep, then when telling Putin to pound sand when he tried for a diplomatic resolution, is a big part of why Putin invaded Ukraine?
And that’s not meant as a justification for Putin invading Ukraine! It’s just context here, whether you’re willing or able to consider it or not.
I think he's having a hard time reconciling (1) a general desire not to be pro-Putin with (2) opinions on world politics that are, in some way, sympathetic to (and/or desired by) Putin.
But this is NOT what you said.ousdahl wrote: ↑Mon Oct 30, 2023 7:07 pm Justification is “the action of showing something to be right or reasonable”
Just saying why is more an explanation, meant more as a statement that makes something clear.
I think you’re having a hard time reconciling that!
I’m not saying it was right or reasonable for Putin to invade, I’m just saying the history books will prob include something like, “Putin invaded because he perceived NATO’s expansion to Ukraine as a threat to Russia.” The history books won’t take a position and say Putin is RIGHT for doing so, they’ll just explain the situation as a historical matter of fact.
But, you do make excuses for Putin. Over and over and over you do. You won't stop.
It doesn't need to be excused. It's the ninth time that NATO membership has been expanded and I see no reason not to support it.
A proper history book would say “Putin claimed that he invaded because he perceived NATO’s expansion to Ukraine as a threat to Russia.” It is absolutely NOT a historical matter of fact that he did it for that reason. The fact that you accept his claim as a matter of historical fact is why everyone has been busting your chops here for months.ousdahl wrote: ↑Mon Oct 30, 2023 7:07 pm Justification is “the action of showing something to be right or reasonable”
Just saying why is more an explanation, meant more as a statement that makes something clear.
I think you’re having a hard time reconciling that!
I’m not saying it was right or reasonable for Putin to invade, I’m just saying the history books will prob include something like, “Putin invaded because he perceived NATO’s expansion to Ukraine as a threat to Russia.” The history books won’t take a position and say Putin is RIGHT for doing so, they’ll just explain the situation as a historical matter of fact.