serve and protect

[Overlander]

I think our prison guards should focus on protecting the inmates who actually deserve protecting first and foremost since protecting everyone at every moment is not realistic.

I think you should try the gig before you make assessments.

2,000 inmates (possibly with weapons) 100 officers (not at all armed).

Be sure to puff your chest out real hard and tell them who they should and shouldn’t assault while you are at it.

[jfish26]

I think our prison guards should focus on protecting the inmates who actually deserve protecting first and foremost since protecting everyone at every moment is not realistic.


Anyway, fantasy land is fun. But prison justice always has and always will exist. Especially for rapists/child molestors and white cops who publicly kill black people. No way to reduce it to 0. Our prisons are relatively safe. Only 143 murders in United States prisons in 2022.

Yeah, I'll take a hard pass on letting those employed as prison guards have any say in who does and does not deserve to be protected.

All we're saying is that we need to constantly evaluate and improve our systems with the intention to try to keep all inmates safe and to not look at some of them as not worthy of that consideration. All humans deserve that if they are incarcerated.

I get what you're (and they're) saying, I have already agreed with a lot of it. It's not complicated.

I personally don't feel all humans who are incarcerated deserve to be safe from harm. I think "SOME" inmates, NOT "all" or "most" or even "many", deserve to endure the prison justice they inevitably receive. No need to go round and round about it. You came a few hours too late for that probably. The other posters already covered everything you have said since they feel the same as you, you're just repeating them at this point. I am comfortable with a certain amount of "prison justice", just as I am comfortable with a certain amount of "street justice". We all have a different appetite for violence and it's place in society.

Omar says a mans got to have a code. I agree with Omar.


But I do think it's funny out one side of your mouth you make a degrading comment about prison guards and the other side of your mouth you're expecting them to do the impossible task of reduce violent crime inside prisons to 0.

I still think you're coming at this from too narrow and specific of an angle. It's easy to pick and choose offenders who "deserve" what's coming to them in prison.

I've said my piece about innocent people ending up shivved. I stand by those points.

I'll also add that a system that turns a blind eye to vigilante justice puts others at risk in other ways.

What about a non-violent inmate who is forced by the vigilantes to open a door or get a weapon or watch for guards? That guy either commits a crime (and jeopardizes his "good time"), or gets on the vigilante's bad side.

What about an ill or injured inmate, whose access to EXTREMELY limited resources is bumped down the list because a guy got shivved?

What about the staff, who might get caught up in the fight themselves?

What about uninvolved inmates, who lose privileges because their cellmate takes it upon himself to do what the judge did not?

And so on.

I'm not naive. Vigilante justice will happen inside prisons, just like it will happen outside of them. But just because we are dealing with convicted criminals - people we like to not think much about, thank you very much - does not mean we should be any more tolerant of vigilante justice within prisons as without.

[DeletedUser]

I think our prison guards should focus on protecting the inmates who actually deserve protecting first and foremost since protecting everyone at every moment is not realistic.

I think you should try the gig before you make assessments.

2,000 inmates (possibly with weapons) 100 officers (not at all armed).

Be sure to puff your chest out real hard and tell them who they should and shouldn’t assault while you are at it.

Weird response.

I golf almost every weekend with one of my best friends who is a prison guard. I would never volunteer myself for that job no matter how much they pay me. He's told me absolutely insane stories (he's at an all women's prison now, but formerly was at an all male prison). He claims the women are worse than the men.

You're basically saying the guards can't keep all of the inmates safe (which I agree with). Which is common sense. If there is moral obligation to keep everyone safe and they can't possibly do that (which you're conceeding), then in a perfect world I'd prefer they focus on the inmates who deserve protection due to whatever reasons.



If you thought I was being anti prison guard and undervaluing the job they do then you should direct your agression at twocoach who degraded the quality of person who tends to be a prison guard.

[Overlander]

I think our prison guards should focus on protecting the inmates who actually deserve protecting first and foremost since protecting everyone at every moment is not realistic.

I think you should try the gig before you make assessments.

2,000 inmates (possibly with weapons) 100 officers (not at all armed).

Be sure to puff your chest out real hard and tell them who they should and shouldn’t assault while you are at it.

Weird response.

I golf almost every weekend with one of my best friends who is a prison guard. I would never volunteer myself for that job no matter how much they pay me. He's told me absolutely insane stories (he's at an all women's prison now, but formerly was at an all male prison). He claims the women are worse than the men.

You're basically saying the guards can't keep all of the inmates safe (which I agree with). Which is common sense. If there is moral obligation to keep everyone safe and they can't possibly do that (which you're conceeding), then in a perfect world I'd prefer they focus on the inmates who deserve protection due to whatever reasons.



If you thought I was being anti prison guard and undervaluing the job they do then you should direct your agression at twocoach who degraded the quality of person who tends to be a prison guard.

I never said that, so you can unclench your panties.

You implied that it is up to prison guards to filter inmates into “protect” / “don’t protect” factions in the eyes of security staff.

The reality is that a prison is controlled chaos, at best. The inmates mostly run their own punishment system, out of eyesight.

Prison security staff are mostly there to control movement and manage day to day functions….and, write up incident reports and violations.

[DeletedUser]

You implied that it is up to prison guards to filter inmates into “protect” / “don’t protect” factions in the eyes of security staff.

The reality is that a prison is controlled chaos, at best. The inmates mostly run their own punishment system, out of eyesight.

Prison security staff are mostly there to control movement and manage day to day functions….and, write up incident reports and violations.

I only implied that after others implied the guards had the ability to do so for all inmates. Which I do not think they can. So I'd prefer they focus what limited ability they do have on the inmates who deserve it most.

[Overlander]

Pick out the ones in denim shirts, white tees, denim pants and white shoes?

[twocoach]

I think our prison guards should focus on protecting the inmates who actually deserve protecting first and foremost since protecting everyone at every moment is not realistic.


Anyway, fantasy land is fun. But prison justice always has and always will exist. Especially for rapists/child molestors and white cops who publicly kill black people. No way to reduce it to 0. Our prisons are relatively safe. Only 143 murders in United States prisons in 2022.

Yeah, I'll take a hard pass on letting those employed as prison guards have any say in who does and does not deserve to be protected.

All we're saying is that we need to constantly evaluate and improve our systems with the intention to try to keep all inmates safe and to not look at some of them as not worthy of that consideration. All humans deserve that if they are incarcerated.

I get what you're (and they're) saying, I have already agreed with a lot of it. It's not complicated.

I personally don't feel all humans who are incarcerated deserve to be safe from harm. I think "SOME" inmates, NOT "all" or "most" or even "many", deserve to endure the prison justice they inevitably receive. No need to go round and round about it. You came a few hours too late for that probably. The other posters already covered everything you have said since they feel the same as you, you're just repeating them at this point. I am comfortable with a certain amount of "prison justice", just as I am comfortable with a certain amount of "street justice". We all have a different appetite for violence and it's place in society.

Omar says a mans got to have a code. I agree with Omar.


But I do think it's funny out one side of your mouth you make a degrading comment about prison guards and the other side of your mouth you're expecting them to do the impossible task of reduce violent crime inside prisons to 0.

We all get what you're saying. You can dress it up with more words that make you sound more civil but you've made it clear how you feel.

And I said nothing about prison guards specifically being tasked with being responsible. Those are your words based on your assumptions. The prison SYSTEM is tasked with that. Frankly, the guards are the weakest link in the system. More can be done with the layout of the facilities, the electronics, the surveillance, better sweeps for contraband and the simple scheduling of who you have where and when.

[RainbowsandUnicorns]

"Active shooter" last night at the Chicago campus of Northwestern University.
Police apprehended those responsible. Kudos because I live in a city where the majority of the time criminals are not apprehended.
People involved last night are know amongst white Cops as "The Element". "The Element" hangs out around that area all the time. I see them. Everyone with a clue knows the danger and possible repercussions of "The Element" congregating about a block east of the most iconic street (Michigan Avenue) in Chicago and on the street called Chicago Avenue. There are college students (and faculty) (as well as people such as myself) all around and almost always the threat of danger exists when "The Element" is present.
The Chicago Police and Campus Police have a minor presence and obviously "The Element" isn't concerned about it.
"The Element" is never going to not exist and it's been getting a lot worse in the neighborhoods I live and work in.
At what point do current Cops say it's just not worth fighting a losing battle in which they can never win - and then what happens?
We're royally fucked. Yeah, I know we're already fucked but we will be fucked to the max.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/articl ... KDOWN.html

[Shirley]

"Active shooter" last night at the Chicago campus of Northwestern University.
Police apprehended those responsible. Kudos because I live in a city where the majority of the time criminals are not apprehended.
People involved last night are know amongst white Cops as "The Element". "The Element" hangs out around that area all the time. I see them. Everyone with a clue knows the danger and possible repercussions of "The Element" congregating about a block east of the most iconic street (Michigan Avenue) in Chicago and on the street called Chicago Avenue. There are college students (and faculty) (as well as people such as myself) all around and almost always the threat of danger exists when "The Element" is present.
The Chicago Police and Campus Police have a minor presence and obviously "The Element" isn't concerned about it.
"The Element" is never going to not exist and it's been getting a lot worse in the neighborhoods I live and work in.
At what point do current Cops say it's just not worth fighting a losing battle in which they can never win - and then what happens?
We're royally fucked. Yeah, I know we're already fucked but we will be fucked to the max.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/articl ... KDOWN.html

Since republicans won't do anything to prevent them from getting guns, maybe we should try therapy?

[DCHawk1]

"Active shooter" last night at the Chicago campus of Northwestern University.
Police apprehended those responsible. Kudos because I live in a city where the majority of the time criminals are not apprehended.
People involved last night are know amongst white Cops as "The Element". "The Element" hangs out around that area all the time. I see them. Everyone with a clue knows the danger and possible repercussions of "The Element" congregating about a block east of the most iconic street (Michigan Avenue) in Chicago and on the street called Chicago Avenue. There are college students (and faculty) (as well as people such as myself) all around and almost always the threat of danger exists when "The Element" is present.
The Chicago Police and Campus Police have a minor presence and obviously "The Element" isn't concerned about it.
"The Element" is never going to not exist and it's been getting a lot worse in the neighborhoods I live and work in.
At what point do current Cops say it's just not worth fighting a losing battle in which they can never win - and then what happens?
We're royally fucked. Yeah, I know we're already fucked but we will be fucked to the max.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/articl ... KDOWN.html

Since republicans won't do anything to prevent them from getting guns, maybe we should try therapy?

yikes

[MICHHAWK]

People involved last night are know amongst white Cops as "The Element".

how are they known amongst black cops?

[MICHHAWK]

Since demonrat DA's won't prosecute when the police catch them, maybe we should try therapy?

fyp

[RainbowsandUnicorns]

People involved last night are know amongst white Cops as "The Element".

how are they known amongst black cops?

Not a bad question. I don't know the answer. I never asked the Black former Chicago Cop I worked with on a daily basis. Maybe trouble?
What's most troubling to me is the blatant disregard and disrespect for the Police that they have. No matter what race/culture/background/gender/religion/whatever the Police are.

[RainbowsandUnicorns]

Since demonrat DA's won't prosecute when the police catch them, maybe we should try therapy?

fyp

Both of your posts were things I feel need to be more than just addressed - but I don't think either can be nor will be easily resolved.

[MICHHAWK]

i favor prosecution to the fullest extent of the law.

[KUTradition]

for everyone?

[dolomite]

for everyone?

Just the guilty ones.

[RainbowsandUnicorns]

i favor prosecution to the fullest extent of the law.

Typically me too.
I have reached out to former Mayor Lightfoot, my Aldermen (plural being that I live on the border of two wards), and the Chief of Police for my district, to ask what if anything I as a citizen can do to help fight crime.
The majority of those I spoke with, especially in the Aldermen's offices, told me the most important thing for us citizens to do is pay attention to the judges and vote accordingly. Many if not most Chicagoans rightfully blame and blast Kim Foxx (States Attorney) for being too soft and lenient on crime - but don't fault the judges.
My guess is 95% of Chicagoans have ZERO clue what judges are tough on sentencing and which are light.

[Overlander]

i favor prosecution to the fullest extent of the law.

Exactly...Fuck Trump!

[Overlander]

“John Turscak stabbed Chauvin 22 times in the law library at the Tucson federal correctional institution in Arizona with an improvised knife, prosecutors said. Turscak, 52, told correctional officers he would have killed Chauvin had they not responded so quickly, according to prosecutors.“

I assume most of you have never seen a prison stabbing victim. The sheer volume of penetrations is astounding.

I remember transporting a former high level member of the Black Gangster Disciples to the hospital, who had been stabbed with a trash bag knife 41 times in the lower abdomen.
As he was laying on the cot, writhing in pain, bubbles poured out of many of his wounds, indicating that his diaphragm was perforated.