Foreign aid to ukraine

[randylahey]

Soooo another 200 million for ukraine.

Unchecked government spending and it's not even at the benefit of our own country

We need a libertarian revolution like our friends down south are doing

[jfish26]

Move to goddamn Argentina, then.

[Shirley]

Soooo another 200 million for ukraine.

Unchecked government spending and it's not even at the benefit of our own country

We need a libertarian revolution like our friends down south are doing

Shut up, stupid:

This is a long post, but if you follow the link, it goes on even further explaining why the propaganda being spread about how much our support for Ukraine is costing Americans, is nearly total BS.

Opinion Ukraine aid’s best-kept secret: Most of the money stays in the U.S.A.

That’s right: Funds that lawmakers approve to arm Ukraine are not going directly to Ukraine but are being used stateside to build new weapons or to replace weapons sent to Kyiv from U.S. stockpiles. Of the $68 billion in military and related assistance Congress has approved since Russia invaded Ukraine, almost 90 percent is going to Americans, one analysis found.

But you wouldn’t know that from the actions of some U.S. lawmakers. When Ohio Sen. J.D. Vance ® joined a United Auto Workers picket line in October at the Jeep assembly plant in Toledo, he said he wanted to “show some support for the UAW workers” in his state. Yet he has not shown the same solidarity with the UAW workers in Lima, Ohio, who are churning out Abrams tanks and Stryker combat vehicles for Ukraine thanks to the military aid that Congress has approved. Vance opposes Ukraine aid, as does Rep. Jim Jordan (R), whose House district includes Lima.

Ohio voters might have expected their elected leaders to be pushing the (reluctant) Biden administration to give Ukraine more Lima-produced tanks and vehicles — or to require that more of them be included in the aid package for Ukraine that Congress will soon take up. Instead, Vance and Jordan are fighting to stop Ukraine from receiving any more union-made tanks and combat vehicles from America’s only tank factory.

It’s not just them. In all, 31 senators and House members whose states or districts benefit from funding for Ukraine have voted to oppose or restrict that aid. They include some of the most prominent anti-Ukraine voices in Congress, such as Republican Sens. Josh Hawley (Mo.), Tommy Tuberville (Ala.) and Mike Braun (Ind.), as well as Republican Reps. Matt Gaetz (Fla.), Bill Posey (Fla.), Anna Paulina Luna (Fla.) and Lance Gooden (Tex.).

At a time when both major parties are competing to win working-class votes and strengthen the U.S. manufacturing base, our military aid to Ukraine does exactly that — it is providing a major cash infusion into factories across the country that directly benefits American workers. It is also creating jobs and opportunities for local suppliers, shops, restaurants and other businesses that support the factories rolling out weapons.

Until now, no one had mapped out precisely where these U.S. military aid funds are going. My American Enterprise Institute colleagues Clara Keuss, Noah Burke and I have catalogued the weapons systems being produced in the United States for Ukraine — tracing the states and congressional districts where they are being made and how senators and House members voted on the funding. We analyzed contracts and press releases and spoke to defense industry experts, diplomats and Pentagon officials to determine where U.S. tax dollars end up.

We have identified 117 production lines in at least 31 states and 71 cities where American workers are producing major weapons systems for Ukraine. For example, aid that Congress has already approved is going to, among many other places:

Simi Valley, Calif.;

Fullerton, Calif.;

Andover, Mass.;

Forest, Miss.;

and York, Pa.,

to build Switchblade unmanned aerial systems, radar systems and tactical vehicles.


York, Pa., and Anniston, Ala., to build Bradley infantry fighting vehicles.

Aiken, S.C.; Elgin, Okla.; Sterling Heights, Mich.; Endicott, N.Y.; York, Pa.; and Minneapolis to build howitzers.

Peoria, Ill.; Clearwater, Palm Bay and Niceville, Fla.; Camden, Ark.; Lancaster and Grand Prairie, Tex.; Rocket Center, W.Va.; and Trenton, N.J., to build HIMARS launchers.

Anniston and Huntsville, Ala., and Camden, Ark., to build parts for the Hydra-70 rocket.

Farmington, N.M.; Orlando; Tucson; and Troy, Ala., to build Javelin antitank missiles.

Many other weapons systems are being built for Ukraine in factories around our country. Nor does this list count the suppliers that provide these contractors with parts, such as plastic and computer chips, or produce smaller items for Ukraine, such as cold-weather and night-vision gear, medical supplies, spare parts and millions of rounds of small-arms ammunition. As one Ukrainian official told me, “Every single state in the U.S. contributes to this effort.”

Ukraine aid funds are going to at least 71 American cities where weapons systems and parts are being manufactured.

In other words, as happens with foreign military aid, our aid to Ukraine is not only creating American jobs but also reinvigorating our dangerously atrophied defense industrial base. Vance said in October that “the condition of the American defense industrial base is a national scandal. Repairing it is among our most urgent priorities.” Well, our aid to Ukraine is doing exactly that.

For example, the United States had not built a single new Stinger antiaircraft missile since 2005. The terrorists we were fighting in recent decades did not have jet fighters, so production faltered. Now, thanks to the Ukraine aid that Vance opposes, the Pentagon signed a $624.6 million contract last year to build Stinger missiles in Tucson, to replace about 1,400 sent to Ukraine. Without our Ukraine resupply effort, the Stinger production line likely would have remained dormant — perhaps until bombs started dropping in a conflict over Taiwan.

Or take the $600 million being used to build two weapons systems for Ukraine in St. Charles, Mo. One is the Joint Direct Attack Munition-Extended Range (JDAM ER), an air-launched GPS-guided weapon that converts dumb bombs into precision-guided glide bombs with a range of up to 45 miles (triple the range of the original weapon). The other is the Ground Launched Small Diameter Bomb (GLSDB), a weapon system newly developed for Ukraine that can be launched from High Mobility Artillery Rocket Systems (HIMARS) and can travel 93 miles, almost double the range of current ground-launched precision munition systems.

If we were not aiding Ukraine, the United States would not be producing either of these weapons. The funding Congress has provided to manufacture both systems injects many millions of dollars into Missouri’s economy and is busying production lines for these advanced capabilities. Those systems will now be available for the United States and Taiwan should a conflict erupt with China, as well as available for Israel.

Workers in West Plains, Mo., are using Ukraine aid to build the MIM-104 Phased Array Tracking Radar for the Patriot missile system that shocked the world this year by downing Russia’s supposedly “invincible” hypersonic missile. This saved Ukrainian lives and proved in real battlefield conditions that the upgraded Patriot system might help defend against hypersonic threats from other adversaries.

Most senators would take credit for these successes. Not Hawley, who is trying to cut funding for these systems being built in his state. The same goes for Rep. Jason T. Smith, who represents Missouri’s 8th Congressional District, where the Patriot radars are built, yet has voted against such aid multiple times. Missouri’s other Republican U.S. senator, Eric Schmitt, has not yet voted on Ukraine aid but has said, “I don’t support these forever wars.” Perhaps he will support defense investments that benefit Missouri workers and strengthen our military production capacity to defend against Communist China?

Among the most shocking examples of our defense industrial base’s decline is our struggle to produce a relatively simple munition: 155mm artillery shells. These shells would be in high demand in any conflict the United States fights. Ukraine is firing 6,000 to 8,000 such shells a day, and Israel is ordering them by the tens of thousands. But before Russia’s full-scale invasion of Ukraine last year, the United States was producing fewer than 15,000 shells per month. So the Pentagon has allocated $1.5 billion to boost production by 500 percent and is on pace to reach 100,000 per month.

With our withered defense production capacity, including a lack of machine tools, reaching that rate will take two years. Even then, the U.S. output in 2025 is likely to not match that of Russia in 2024. But were it not for our aid to Ukraine, those U.S. production increases would not be happening. With money Congress approved to arm Kyiv, shells are being assembled in Scranton and Wilkes-Barre, Pa., and in a new factory in Camden, Ark., using components (including explosives, propellant, primers, fuses and shell bodies) produced in such U.S. cities and towns as Kingsport and Cordova, Tenn.; Bristol, Pa.; Middletown, Iowa; and Coachella, Calif. A factory being built in Mesquite, Tex., is expected to produce about 20,000 shells a month and employ at least 125 workers after it comes online early next year. The president of the Mesquite Chamber of Commerce told the New York Times that lawmakers who oppose Ukraine aid are “voting against your constituents. … You’re literally saying no to the people you’re representing.” Yet Gooden, who represents Mesquite, voted against the aid that is helping fund the new plant in his district.

Our aid to Ukraine is not only forcing the Pentagon to rapidly increase the United States’ ability to produce weapons; it’s also modernizing the U.S. military. As retired Army Maj. Gen. John G. Ferrari, now a colleague at the American Enterprise Institute, recently pointed out, we are giving Ukraine weapons systems that are often decades old and then replacing our stockpiles with more advanced versions. “Because of the existing budget pressures on the Army, it wouldn’t be able to afford this needed modernization of equipment on its own,” Ferrari wrote in an op-ed. “By transferring weapons and gear to Ukraine, the Army would receive more modern weapons in return.”

[...]

[twocoach]

Why just today, the administration is putting forth a $3.5 Billion plan to strengthen and modernize the American electrical grid. Reminds me of the way he strengthened the general infrastructure with needed investments and brought microchip manufacturing back from offshore. He has shored up allies, oil production, and has the economy in a better place than it has been in our adult lives. What has Biden for us?

"Economy in a better place than it has been in our adult lives"

Absolutely delusional lol

Maybe we can roll back to the Reagan years when unemployment was 8%, inflation was sky high and interest rates hit 20%, driving my parent's business into the ground.

[Shirley]

Why just today, the administration is putting forth a $3.5 Billion plan to strengthen and modernize the American electrical grid. Reminds me of the way he strengthened the general infrastructure with needed investments and brought microchip manufacturing back from offshore. He has shored up allies, oil production, and has the economy in a better place than it has been in our adult lives. What has Biden for us?

"Economy in a better place than it has been in our adult lives"

Absolutely delusional lol

Maybe we can roll back to the Reagan years when unemployment was 8%, inflation was sky high and interest rates hit 20%, driving my parent's business into the ground.

While simultaneously nearly tripling the national debt.

Because, as every good "conservative" knows







"tax cuts pay for themselves."

[randylahey]

Or maybe we've seen republicans and democrats together moving the country in the wrong direction for decades and its time to start voting outside the 2 party system

[randylahey]

And again, is spending billions and billions of dollars that don't exist on our military really necessary right now?

Maybe it's time to trim down the government a bit

[jfish26]

And again, is spending billions and billions of dollars that don't exist on our military really necessary right now?

Maybe it's time to trim down the government a bit

What would you say are some real-world privatization success stories? This isn't a gotcha. I would prefer less government over more government also...but it sure seems like the results don't tend to support the thesis.

[ousdahl]

So Shirley, is that why you claim to have opposed Vietnam in hindsight, but support Ukraine and Israel in real time?

Cuz you didn’t perceive ‘nam as good enough for the economy?

[jfish26]

So Shirley, is that why you claim to have opposed Vietnam in hindsight, but support Ukraine and Israel in real time?

Cuz you didn’t perceive ‘nam as good enough for the economy?

Shirley can answer for Shirley's self.

But I don't take Shirley's point as "the Ukraine war is good for America because it's good for America's economy." I take it as "the talking point that we're just handing burlap sacks of your and my cash to corrupt Ukrainians is misleading."

[ousdahl]

Well, there was at least one WaPo article that reported just that, but I know very few here even bothered to consider it.

[Shirley]

So Shirley, is that why you claim to have opposed Vietnam in hindsight, but support Ukraine and Israel in real time?

Cuz you didn’t perceive ‘nam as good enough for the economy?

Shirley can answer for Shirley's self.

But I don't take Shirley's point as "the Ukraine war is good for America because it's good for America's economy." I take it as "the talking point that we're just handing burlap sacks of your and my cash to corrupt Ukrainians is misleading."

^^^

jfish26 gets it.

[Sparko]

It turns out that the Ukraine is good at self defense and advancing American interests. Russia? Not so much.

[randylahey]

And again, is spending billions and billions of dollars that don't exist on our military really necessary right now?

Maybe it's time to trim down the government a bit

What would you say are some real-world privatization success stories? This isn't a gotcha. I would prefer less government over more government also...but it sure seems like the results don't tend to support the thesis.

The founding of this country was pretty cool. Although we've slowly drifted away from some founding principles as government has grown the past couple centuries

[Overlander]

And again, is spending billions and billions of dollars that don't exist on our military really necessary right now?

Maybe it's time to trim down the government a bit

What would you say are some real-world privatization success stories? This isn't a gotcha. I would prefer less government over more government also...but it sure seems like the results don't tend to support the thesis.

The founding of this country was pretty cool. Although we've slowly drifted away from some founding principles as government has grown the past couple centuries

We also don't have to worry about our wives getting carried off by Comanches.

[randylahey]

It turns out that the Ukraine is good at self defense and advancing American interests. Russia? Not so much.

Ukraine is good at self defense?

[KUTradition]

And again, is spending billions and billions of dollars that don't exist on our military really necessary right now?

Maybe it's time to trim down the government a bit

What would you say are some real-world privatization success stories? This isn't a gotcha. I would prefer less government over more government also...but it sure seems like the results don't tend to support the thesis.

The founding of this country was pretty cool. Although we've slowly drifted away from some founding principles as government has grown the past couple centuries

the founding of this country was based on theft, rape, murder and slavery

pretty cool indeed

[jfish26]

And again, is spending billions and billions of dollars that don't exist on our military really necessary right now?

Maybe it's time to trim down the government a bit

What would you say are some real-world privatization success stories? This isn't a gotcha. I would prefer less government over more government also...but it sure seems like the results don't tend to support the thesis.

The founding of this country was pretty cool. Although we've slowly drifted away from some founding principles as government has grown the past couple centuries

I am not following how the founding of this country is an example of a real-world privatization success story.

[ousdahl]

What would you say are some real-world privatization success stories? This isn't a gotcha. I would prefer less government over more government also...but it sure seems like the results don't tend to support the thesis.

The founding of this country was pretty cool. Although we've slowly drifted away from some founding principles as government has grown the past couple centuries

the founding of this country was based on theft, rape, murder and slavery

pretty cool indeed

It really is a shame you don’t get along with Qusdahl.

[Sparko]

It turns out that the Ukraine is good at self defense and advancing American interests. Russia? Not so much.

Ukraine is good at self defense?

They have defended themselves against wave after wave of the largest army in the world. Using what we can spare. Frankly I am embarrassed by your ignorance here.