Israel/Palestine

[RainbowsandUnicorns]

For the first time, Mr. Trump leads President Biden among young voters in a Times/Siena national survey, 49 percent to 43 percent. It’s enough to give him a narrow 46-44 lead among registered voters overall.
…
And there’s a plausible explanation for the shift in recent months: Israel.

As my colleagues Jonathan Weisman, Ruth Igielnik and Alyce McFadden report, young voters in the survey took an extraordinarily negative view of Israel’s recent conduct: They overwhelmingly say Israel isn’t doing enough to prevent civilian casualties in Gaza, believe Israel isn’t interested in peace, and think Israel should stop its military campaign, even if it means Hamas isn’t eliminated.

https://www.nytimes.com/2023/12/19/upsh ... =url-share

I agree Israel isn't doing enough to prevent civilian casualties.
How many of those fuckwads that were surveyed feel Hamas does more to prevent civilian casualties than Israel does?

Those who say Israel isn't interested in peace are fucking Morons.

Of course they feel Israel should stop their military campaign. They didn't give a fuck about Israel before October 7th 2022.

[RainbowsandUnicorns]

Yea, I saw that Economist poll too, but dunno whether it makes mention of this thread.

Dunno where you came up with those hot takes about Israel and peace and Hamas and a right to exist, but feel free to share your source.

Now, if you’re willing to consider the issues of colonial settler ideology in America, may we please consider it in this thread too?

Sorry, I have to agree with Trad's response on this one. As harsh as it may have been.

[RainbowsandUnicorns]

After watching the October 7 attack by the Palestinians I noticed that many of the attackers were wearing just street clothes and not Hamas military uniforms. So did Hamas recruit ordinary Gazans to carry out their dirty work? Maybe not all the civilians are innocent.

Correct.

[RainbowsandUnicorns]

Jeez you guys.

Part of me feels like I should just shut up. If we can’t actually discuss the situation at hand without loosing our minds, why bother, right?

But, since you continue to be not only so condescending, and not only in a way that completely (and intentionally?) misrepresents me, but in a way that only shows how limited your guy’s own views are about so much of the reality of this thread…I can’t help but feel the need to respond.

But, don’t worry. This time I’ll at least give you an out!

I admit my views are extremely limited.
Hamas = bad.
Israel = less bad.
Innocent Israeli and Gazan civilians being killed = bad.
War = bad.
How/why should my views be any different and what other views should I have?

[DeletedUser]

Jeez you guys.

Part of me feels like I should just shut up.

That's the good part of you. Listen to that part.

[RainbowsandUnicorns]

The hope is he'll get it. The frustration is that he doesn't.

Get what?

Yes, Hamas is bad, and the 10/7 attack is terrorism.

Your and my tax dollars have furnished the killing of tens of thousands of civilians, the (permanent?) displacement of almost 2 million more; mostly women and kids. If they haven’t been bombed to death, they face starving to death instead.

Even Biden, at best complicit and at worst the most guiltiest war criminal in the entire thread, thinks Israel is killing indiscriminately at this point. Even he wants them to ease up on civilians (not that he’s gonna like NOT sidestep congress to keep giving Israel weapons anyway)

So, again, tell me.

Get what?

I understand and can actually appreciate your being upset about your tax dollars "furnished the killing of tens of thousands of civilians, the (permanent?) displacement of almost 2 million more; mostly women and kids. If they haven’t been bombed to death, they face starving to death instead".
Frankly, I'm not happy about it either.

Now I am going to ask you 3 questions.
How many people live in Israel?
Do you realize that if they could do it without fear of Gaza being wiped off the map, Hamas would kill every Jewish Israeli citizen - on purpose - for their pleasure?
You point out "our" tax dollars "furnish the killings" but say nothing of our tax dollars going to protect Israel and its right to exist. Why?

[RainbowsandUnicorns]

I just think the wise thing to do would be to also consider the material conditions that created Hamas

You mean the first Intifada?

Take it up with Arafat.

Thank you for that post.

This would be a terrible analogy but it might help Ousy with some perspective.
I consider the material conditions that HELPED (not completely) create African American gangs in the USA (and am actually sympathetic about it) but I will NEVER excuse their criminal behavior because of it.

[RainbowsandUnicorns]

There was a ceasefire on 10/6.

How'd that work out?

Not too well for the innocent Israeli's and then the people of Gaza.
As I have said before, Hamas and the Gaza citizens fully knew there would be repercussions for October 7th - and yet they chose to go ahead with their plan - and many if not most Gaza citizens celebrated October 7th - and now they are learning the hard way that when Hamas fucks around - there is a good chance they will find out that hard way that Israel will retaliate in an excessive manner.

[RainbowsandUnicorns]

Assholes. The "protesters" - and the "law enforcement officers" who allowed this to occur.

https://twitter.com/SubxNews/status/1738734424550768974

[Sparko]

I see no credible alternative to supporting Israel, which makes the current war a real boon to nations like Russia who exploit cracks in the electorate. Ousdahl doesn't get that he is parroting anti-American talking points, and neither do many supposedly enlightened people blocking traffic. If you are simply going to bitch based on misinformation sources without providing policy choices, it is possible you are a rube being exploited. Biden has made several key moves behind the scenes to prevent widening the war.

[dolomite]

If Hezbollah is not repelled in the north of Israel then I’m fearful that there might be another scenario like we have now in Ukraine. C’mon Biden what’s the use of having the strongest Navy in the world just sitting in the Mediterranean? Deterrence ? Give me a break. Also regarding the Red Sea incidents, the Houthis, acting like strutting peacocks should be smacked down hard.

[Overlander]

Also regarding the Red Sea incidents, the Houthis, acting like strutting peacocks should be smacked down hard.

Truth here

[Shirley]

Good, if true:

Biden “added that ‘this conversation is over’ and ended the call.”

[Shirley]

This:

January 1, 2024-Israeli Security Minister Itamar Ben-Gvir has made an explicit call for ethnic cleansing in Gaza. The US should not support clients who engage in ethnic cleansing.

Mitchell Minute 1760-Ben Gvir's Call for Ethnic Cleansing

[Shirley]

Good:

Israel’s Supreme Court strikes down key part of Netanyahu's judicial overhaul

Israel’s Supreme Court struck down a key component of Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu’s contentious judicial overhaul.

The court narrowly voted to overturn a law passed in July that prevents judges from striking down government decisions they deem “unreasonable.”

Opponents had argued that Netanyahu’s efforts to remove the standard of reasonability opens the door to corruption and improper appointments of unqualified cronies to important positions.

Israel National Security Minister Ben Gvir criticized the decision “a dangerous, anti-democratic" decision. “The High Court’s ruling is illegal, and includes the annulment of a basic law in a precedent manner, in the absence of a source of legal authority,” he wrote on social media platform X.

[zsn]

Netanyahu has learned nothing during the years he has interacted with the US. All he has to do is appointment to the judiciary* those whose sugar daddies have a large disposable fortune.

*cf. Thomas, Clarence; Alito, Samuel.

[Shirley]

Apparently this happened a few hours ago. "Sources" on twitter are reporting it was carried out by the US, which is not yet confirmed. (Although IMO, more than likely.)

Four Iran-backed militia fighters killed in Baghdad drone strike, Iraq blames U.S.-led coalition

A drone strike killed four members of an Iran-aligned Iraqi militia and wounded six in Baghdad on Thursday, police and security sources said, in an attack blamed by Iraqi authorities on the U.S.-led international coalition.

Police sources and eyewitnesses said the drone had fired at least two rockets at a building in eastern Baghdad used by the Iraqi militia group al-Nujaba'a.

"The Iraqi armed forces hold the international coalition forces responsible for this unjustified attack on an Iraqi security entity", said a statement which described the militia group as an Iraqi force operating with the authorisation of Prime Minister Mohammed Shia al-Sudani.

...Iraqi security sources said they had no further detail on who might have carried out the strike pending a government investigation.

Iraqi militia commanders accused the United States of carrying out the attack and threatened to retaliate.

"We will retaliate and make the Americans regret carrying out this aggression," said Abu Aqeel al-Moussawi, a local Iraqi militia commander.

There was no immediate comment from Washington.

The U.S. military has already come under attack at least 100 times in Iraq and Syria since the Israel-Hamas war began in October, usually with a mix of rockets and one-way attack drones.

Iran-aligned groups in Iraq and Syria oppose Israel's campaign in Gaza and hold the United States partly responsible.

Last month, the United States carried out retaliatory air strikes in Iraq after a drone attack by Iran-aligned militants that left one U.S. service member in critical condition and wounded two others.

[KUTradition]

also, two ISIS-claimed suicide bombings in iran

[MICHHAWK]

how great would that be. if the middle east blew itsself off the face of the earth.

[KUTradition]

about as great as if michigan did the same