Chiefs 2023

[pdub]

If Balty covers plus 8 ( Bills ML, Philly ML, Ravens lose by 8 or less ) I’ll be up tonight so I might be ok regarding that.

I don’t think he said anything about Nagy.

[shindig]

Chiefs are going to sputter out early this year

Yup.
And hopefully Veach realizes he can’t completely abandon an entire ( VERY IMPORTANT ) portion of the team.

Frank Clark.
Mecole over DK.
CEH over Diggs and Swift.
Jawaan Taylor.
No WRs at all - relying on fucking Kadarius Toney. Holy shit kind of stupid.

I’m tired of Veach. Didn’t he trade up to get mecole when DK was sitting there? Not resigning Hill was a huge mistake. Hill, Kelsey and Mahomes had great chemistry. Mahomes doesn’t know who to go to now and he’s scrambling to make plays and it’s because Veach is a fuck up.

[pdub]

Well there’s the debate whether he got Mahomes. If he really did, he’s playing house money. No one knows.

If not, he’s still landed on the OLine in Humphrey and Trey Smith, DLine in Karlaftis, LB in Bolton, secondary in McDuffie and RB in Pacheco.

Possibly Rashee Rice too.

[Overlander]

Kind of hard to blame Veach with 2 Super Bowls

[pdub]

I’m fine with the Tyreek trade too.
You just can’t leave the cupboard THIS empty.

[RainbowsandUnicorns]

Give me the best QB in Football.
Give me the best TE in Football.
Give me Hardman, Moore, MVS, Rice, Watson, and Toney. PLENTY of "talent". (Yes, WAY underachieving THIS season - to me, that's not the GM's fault)
Give me Pacheco and CEH.
Give me a top 10 Defense.
Give me Andy Reid.
Give me Spags.
Call me crazy but I would be thrilled if the Bears had all that and I feel fans of 90% of NFL teams would be thrilled with that too.

[pdub]

Well sure.
Shirley or japhy was just talking about the Chiefs of old—everything in perspective.

It’s just frustrating to know that they could have prevented what is happening right now with investment in the WR group which, despite you saying there’s plenty of talent there, is the worst in the NFL.

[RainbowsandUnicorns]

Believe me, I understand your frustration and of course it's valid but.....
Going in to the season, I doubt there was a semi knowledgeable person who thought the Chiefs WR would perform this poorly.
Right or wrong, I do believe there is a lot of talent.
Maybe it's just me but I think some blame has to go to Embree, Bleymaier, and Nagy.

[pdub]

Here’s me in March:

“ Chiefs just gonna be like, well Mahomes, you lost Tyreek and got better so, how about you play with Skyy Moore and a guy with half a hamstring.”

Also me in March regarding the Jawaan signing:

“… but they have made some pretty bad ones that I figured would be bad ( Speaks, Frank Clark, CEH, Hardman ) -- this is one of those as well ( UNLESS we have a LT trade in the works ).”

In July I was saying our WR was the weakest unit in the NFL. I was pushing for Kendrick Bourne, Jakobi Meyers, Adam Thielen or Deandre Hopkins. I wanted a Mike Evans trade or at least a Jarvis Landry signing. Anything.

So when you say people didn’t think the WRs would be this bad, maybe not THIS bad, but still the worst in the NFL.

[twocoach]

Give me the best QB in Football.
Give me the best TE in Football.
Give me Hardman, Moore, MVS, Rice, Watson, and Toney. PLENTY of "talent". (Yes, WAY underachieving THIS season - to me, that's not the GM's fault)
Give me Pacheco and CEH.
Give me a top 10 Defense.
Give me Andy Reid.
Give me Spags.
Call me crazy but I would be thrilled if the Bears had all that and I feel fans of 90% of NFL teams would be thrilled with that too.

Moore and MVS have not proven out to be talented enough to play in the NFL. Hardman was a sentimental pick up who most of us hated as a waste of talent when he was originally here. Toney has theoretical talent but his brain and his inability to stay healthy far negates his physical talent.

The Chiefs gambled on a low dollar WR room and lost.
The Chiefs gambled on replacing both offensive tackles and lost.
The Chiefs gambled on a familiar replacement for Bienemy and lost.

Missing on all three of those has resulted in them wasting all of the positives you listed. I agree that many NFL franchises would be fine sneaking into the playoffs and losing their first playoff game but they have the important parts in place to perform at a much higher level than that.

[shindig]

I think they mis judged Mahomes ability to “just make plays” with any WR they through out there. First, none of the WRs can get open and when they do, they drop the ball too many times. Rice has been good, but he’s a rookie. Too many things to fix this late in the season, so I expect a loss in the first round of the playoffs. And home field advantage hasn’t seemed to matter this year since the Chiefs have lost their last 3 home games I believe.

[jfish26]

I think they mis judged Mahomes ability to “just make plays” with any WR they through out there. First, none of the WRs can get open and when they do, they drop the ball too many times. Rice has been good, but he’s a rookie. Too many things to fix this late in the season, so I expect a loss in the first round of the playoffs. And home field advantage hasn’t seemed to matter this year since the Chiefs have lost their last 3 home games I believe.

I think this is pretty damn close to the mark. I think that neither the coaching (Reid etc) nor roster (Veach etc) side really understood that, basically, making Mahomes play like Alex Smith wasn't going to result in "Alex Smith, but great." It was going to result in an 18-week miniseries of Clark Kent getting bitterer and bitterer each week that he can still fly and see through walls and shit, but there's not a phone booth in sight.

[pdub]

The worst of it is, just two moves different ( DONT overpay for Taylor, sign a WR ) and I think we have a good enough WR who could sniff the pro bowl AND the best defense we have had with Mahomes.

[shindig]

The worst of it is, just two moves different ( DONT overpay for Taylor, sign a WR ) and I think we have a good enough WR who could sniff the pro bowl AND the best defense we have had with Mahomes.

Yep a WR that demands respect from the defense, like Hill does. When we had a stud WR, he was double teamed many times, which opened up less than talented WRs. And when those receivers started catching balls, it opened up Hill on many big plays that picked up 50+ yards. That’s all gone without at least one big time WR. It was a thing of beauty.

[jfish26]

The worst of it is, just two moves different ( DONT overpay for Taylor, sign a WR ) and I think we have a good enough WR who could sniff the pro bowl AND the best defense we have had with Mahomes.

Yeah - if Mahomes finishes one short of Brady, or tied with Brady, we're going to look back with amazement at the team being this fucking limp with an elite defense.

[Sparko]

I think the biggest factor is what the NFL obviously intended: the Chiefs are playing fresher teams for the past month and a half with more prep time. Teams are demolishing the line of scrimmage. Yesterday, receivers weren't a factor. Mahomes was running for his life.

[pdub]

Sparko isn’t fully wrong ( I don’t think the NFL is intentionally sabotaging us but it’s a disadvantage to be sure ).
This stretch was pointed out early and it’s clearly not been ideal for us.

[Sparko]

And you are talking about professional athletes. The Chiefs had a really tough schedule and it has killed them. Injuries, slow recovery, and teams just smashing plays before they even start.

[jfish26]

The schedule cannot be in the conversation when you lose at home to Aidan O'Connell (not completing a pass after the first quarter even).

The fact is that - and I suppose this doesn't need to be the end of the story for 2023 - the quarterback has pretty much given up on the passcatchers. And the entire offense was designed around that not happening; yesterday's desperation (fake punt? endless trick plays and gadgetry?) doesn't make me very hopeful.

[Sparko]

Oooh it is. The Raiders defense was keying very comfortably on every play. Yesterday was a defensive battle because a team had prep time. The Raiders offense was trash and they won anyway. Mahomes was sacked or hurried 30 times.