2024

[Shirley]

As I have said for what must be years now, the point (and it is an obvious one to me anyway) is that Trump and MAGA attacks on Biden and his cognitive fitness are something even worse than the pot calling the kettle black; it has always been preemptive laundering of Trump’s much more significant decline.

Man, I have to respectfully disagree with that. Biden sure looks and sounds much worse off than Trump does (to me).

Example(s)?

[DeletedUser]

As I have said for what must be years now, the point (and it is an obvious one to me anyway) is that Trump and MAGA attacks on Biden and his cognitive fitness are something even worse than the pot calling the kettle black; it has always been preemptive laundering of Trump’s much more significant decline.

Man, I have to respectfully disagree with that. Biden sure looks and sounds much worse off than Trump does (to me).

Example(s)?

You serious, Clark?

There are dozens of videos of Biden looking lost or confused on stage.

He's an old man. He mixes up names of places and people he shouldn't. He looks like he can barely walk some days.


If it's a choice between the two then obviously Biden is the significantly less dangerous choice.

But neither of these men are fit to be President. Especially not until 2028.

[Shirley]

Man, I have to respectfully disagree with that. Biden sure looks and sounds much worse off than Trump does (to me).

Example(s)?

You serious, Clark?

There are dozens of videos of Biden looking lost or confused on stage.

He's an old man. He mixes up names of places and people he shouldn't. He looks like he can barely walk some days.


If it's a choice between the two then obviously Biden is the significantly less dangerous choice.

But neither of these men are fit to be President. Especially not until 2028.

You're right, there are plenty examples of Biden not remembering or misremembering details, like people's names, etc., no question about that.

But, if, as you said, "there are dozens of videos where Biden looks and sounds much worse off than Trump", it should be easy for you to give us examples where Biden goes off on long diatribes like Trump does, going on and on retelling events and stories where Trump talks about Haley when he means Pelosi, or, for example, not remembering who he ran against in an election like Trump has repeatedly done confusing Obama with Biden. IMO, that's clear evidence that Trump's problem(s) are much more profound than Biden's.

If you have evidence to the contrary, post it.

tia

Note: I agree they're both older than we'd like, but for the future of our republic Trump had to be defeated in 2020, and imo, there was no one else on the Democratic bench that could have done it other than Biden. If you disagree about that then, or now, name names ________. Unfortunately, no Democrat has emerged from the pack in the intervening 4 years, so like it or not we're left with a binary choice that once again involves an existential threat to our republic, and like you said, "Biden is the significantly less dangerous choice."

[jfish26]

As I have said for what must be years now, the point (and it is an obvious one to me anyway) is that Trump and MAGA attacks on Biden and his cognitive fitness are something even worse than the pot calling the kettle black; it has always been preemptive laundering of Trump’s much more significant decline.

Man, I have to respectfully disagree with that. Biden sure looks and sounds much worse off than Trump does (to me).

But Biden isn't a wannabe dictator. So there's that.

I think it’s a lot about the availability heuristic.

Biden is public-facing multiple times per day, nearly every single day. Trump’s visibility has been much more curated, controlled, limited.

But - my opinion - we are seeing now that he has been drawn out more in public that we are not dealing with speech impediments or fatigue or even gentle decline with Trump.

We are seeing, in my opinion, something more profound. And I think the delusional, narcissistic ambition is not something separate.

[jfish26]

Example(s)?

You serious, Clark?

There are dozens of videos of Biden looking lost or confused on stage.

He's an old man. He mixes up names of places and people he shouldn't. He looks like he can barely walk some days.


If it's a choice between the two then obviously Biden is the significantly less dangerous choice.

But neither of these men are fit to be President. Especially not until 2028.

You're right, there are plenty examples of Biden not remembering or misremembering details, like people's names, etc., no question about that.

But, if, as you said, "there are dozens of videos where Biden looks and sounds much worse off than Trump", it should be easy for you to give us examples where Biden goes off on long diatribes like Trump does, going on and on retelling events and stories where Trump talks about Haley when he means Pelosi, or, for example, not remembering who he ran against in an election like Trump has repeatedly done confusing Obama with Biden. IMO, that's clear evidence that Trump's problem(s) are much more profound than Biden's.

If you have evidence to the contrary, post it.

tia

Note: I agree they're both older than we'd like, but for the future of our republic Trump had to be defeated in 2020, and imo, there was no one else on the Democratic bench that could have done it other than Biden. If you disagree about that then, or now, name names ________. Unfortunately, no Democrat has emerged from the pack in the intervening 4 years, so like it or not we're left with a binary choice that once again involves an existential threat to our republic, and like you said, "Biden is the significantly less dangerous choice."

I think the macro point here is that, if anything, a battle of "confused old man does confused things" clips dramatically understates the substantive, qualitative differences in their present cognitive abilities.

And I think, again in the macro, it must be stressed that (1) accusing others of something you know is an even-worse issue of yours is straight out of the Trump/MAGA playbook, and, MUCH more importantly, (2) believing that you should be categorically exempt from consequences of any kind is, in addition to being profoundly un-American and disqualifying as a candidate for dog catcher let alone the Presidency, a sign of deep mental and emotional distress.

[RainbowsandUnicorns]

Example(s)?

You serious, Clark?

There are dozens of videos of Biden looking lost or confused on stage.

He's an old man. He mixes up names of places and people he shouldn't. He looks like he can barely walk some days.


If it's a choice between the two then obviously Biden is the significantly less dangerous choice.

But neither of these men are fit to be President. Especially not until 2028.

You're right, there are plenty examples of Biden not remembering or misremembering details, like people's names, etc., no question about that.

But, if, as you said, "there are dozens of videos where Biden looks and sounds much worse off than Trump", it should be easy for you to give us examples where Biden goes off on long diatribes like Trump does, going on and on retelling events and stories where Trump talks about Haley when he means Pelosi, or, for example, not remembering who he ran against in an election like Trump has repeatedly done confusing Obama with Biden. IMO, that's clear evidence that Trump's problem(s) are much more profound than Biden's.

If you have evidence to the contrary, post it.

tia

Note: I agree they're both older than we'd like, but for the future of our republic Trump had to be defeated in 2020, and imo, there was no one else on the Democratic bench that could have done it other than Biden. If you disagree about that then, or now, name names ________. Unfortunately, no Democrat has emerged from the pack in the intervening 4 years, so like it or not we're left with a binary choice that once again involves an existential threat to our republic, and like you said, "Biden is the significantly less dangerous choice."

I provided a few recent examples a couple of days ago.
When I get home from work I'll provide several (or maybe 10 examples?) of embarrassing (actually should be frightening to people) extended Biden moments.

Trump and Biden are both mentally gone at times. Too many times. Is it really a contest? Who is the ultimate judge? They both have had very concerning moments.
Instead of In God We Trust on currency maybe we should consider putting - Our President is often brain dead but hey, at least we didn't elect the more brain dead guy!
Corn Pop be damned!

[DrPepper]

Trump surrounds himself with yes-people and fires them if they don't do what he says. Biden is surrounded by people who know how government is run (ya know, they have done government before and know how to do it with some sense of decorum and decency for all people). If both candidates are mentally incapacitated, I trust Biden's handlers much more than I do Trump's.

[DrPepper]

I heard Trump on the radio this morning speaking about how the Iowa governor would not endorse him even after Trump reminded the governor about the good things he did for Iowa. The governor said they wanted to remain neutral. Trump said it was not a quid pro quo, but that he fires people who do not do (I forget his exact words but you get the idea) and that he has fired a lot of people.

Biden is PRINCIPLE CENTERED. Trump and his followers have a messiah complex.
Being principle centered is how I can respect a leader like Liz Cheney, but disagree with many of her core political beliefs.

[Shirley]

I heard Trump on the radio this morning speaking about how the Iowa governor would not endorse him even after Trump reminded the governor about the good things he did for Iowa. The governor said they wanted to remain neutral. Trump said it was not a quid pro quo, but that he fires people who do not do (I forget his exact words but you get the idea) and that he has fired a lot of people.

Biden is PRINCIPLE CENTERED. Trump and his followers have a messiah complex.
Being principle centered is how I can respect a leader like Liz Cheney, but disagree with many of her core political beliefs.

^^^

/thread

Pro tip: Listen to the person with the PhD after their name.




dammit

[DeletedUser]

Trump surrounds himself with yes-people and fires them if they don't do what he says. Biden is surrounded by people who know how government is run (ya know, they have done government before and know how to do it with some sense of decorum and decency for all people). If both candidates are mentally incapacitated, I trust Biden's handlers much more than I do Trump's.

This.

[DeletedUser]

I heard Trump on the radio this morning speaking about how the Iowa governor would not endorse him even after Trump reminded the governor about the good things he did for Iowa. The governor said they wanted to remain neutral. Trump said it was not a quid pro quo, but that he fires people who do not do (I forget his exact words but you get the idea) and that he has fired a lot of people.

Biden is PRINCIPLE CENTERED. Trump and his followers have a messiah complex.
Being principle centered is how I can respect a leader like Liz Cheney, but disagree with many of her core political beliefs.

This. Again.

[Shirley]

Let me start by agreeing that, like all of you, I wish our choices were younger, too. But, they aren’t. It is what it is. As DrPepper said previously, it’s a choice between someone who is “principled”, and someone who isn’t, and that matters. A lot.

From a medical perspective, if Biden’s problem was a dramatic change, if it was new onset and obviously progressive, I’d be worried. It isn’t, so I’m not. Biden’s memory lapses and gaffes go back decades. He’s famous for it. What it suggests is that Biden, like Reagan was, is inattentive to details.

Sept. 9, 2008



"I'm told Chuck Graham, state senator, is here. Stand up Chuck, let 'em see you. Oh, God love you. What am I talking about. I'll tell you what, you're making everybody else stand up, though, pal."



—Biden, telling Missouri state senator Chuck Graham to stand up at a campaign rally, before realizing that Graham is confined to a wheelchair.

Sept. 10, 2008

"Hillary Clinton is as qualified or more qualified than I am to be Vice President of the United States of America. Let's get that straight. She's a truly close personal friend. She is qualified to be President of the United States of America. She's easily qualified to be Vice President of the United States of America. Quite frankly, it might have been a better pick than me. But she's first rate."

— Joe Biden, suggesting Obama's former rival Senator Hillary Clinton might have been a better choice for the Vice President than him at a rally in Nashua, N.H.

Oct. 20, 2008

"Remember, I said it standing here, if you don't remember anything else I said. Watch, we're going to have an international crisis, a generated crisis, to test the mettle of this guy."

— Joe Biden, telling donors at a private fundraiser in Seattle that Barack Obama will likely be tested by an international crisis during his first few months in office.

The GOP pounced on the Veep candidate's remark, saying it underscored Obama's inexperience. McCain made it a major talking point at rallies and in TV ads, claiming that unlike Obama, he had already been tested.

The Obama camp, at pains to explain what point the gaffe-prone Senator was trying to make, said that he was referencing a "simple fact that history shows Presidents face challenges from day one."

Jan. 21, 2009

"Am I doing this again? ... My memory is not as good as Justice Roberts'."



— Biden, alluding to Supreme Court Justice John Roberts, who flubbed a line during Barack Obama's presidential oath the previous day, before swearing in members of his senior staff. Obama, standing nearby, shook his head disapprovingly and gave Biden a stern poke.

Feb. 6, 2009

"If we do everything right, if we do it with absolute certainty, there's still a 30% chance we're going to get it wrong."

— Joe Biden, speaking to members of the House Democratic caucus who were gathered in Williamsburg, Va., for their annual retreat.

Biden may have gotten a big promotion on Jan. 20, but he proved early on in his term that he was still the same old gaffe-prone politician. Speaking to his former Capitol Hill colleagues at their annual retreat, he was a little too candid about how the Democratic Party could face major political repercussions in 2010 for its support of the $900 billion economic-stimulus package. He said the line while recalling a White House meeting with President Obama and senior aides — something that probably wasn't expected to leave the room. The White House later dismissed the remark, with Obama quipping at a prime-time press conference, "I don't remember exactly what Joe was referring to, not surprisingly.”

April 30, 2009

"I would tell members of my family, and I have, I wouldn't go anywhere in confined places right now. It's not that it's going to Mexico, it's that you are in a confined aircraft. When one person sneezes, it goes everywhere through the aircraft. That's me."

—Vice President Joe Biden, when asked on NBC's Today Show what he would tell his relatives if they wanted to fly to Mexico the next week. White House press secretary Robert Gibbs later commented, "If people felt unduly alarmed for whatever reason, we would certainly apologize for that.”
Swine Flu: 5 Things You Need to Know About the Outbreak.

March 23, 2010

"This is a big f______ deal."

It's not even surprising anymore when the Vice President says something impolitic, is it? A week ago, during a White House St. Patrick's Day celebration, he briefly mourned the death of the Irish Prime Minister's mother, even though she was very much alive. And on Tuesday, immediately following his introduction of President Obama during the health care bill's signing ceremony, he turned to the Commander in Chief and uttered the following barely-off microphone comment: "This is a big f______ deal." With his use of the F word, Biden offered the ultimate blue-collar acknowledgment of a job well done. White House press secretary Robert Gibbs quickly came to the Vice President's defense with a simple note on his official Twitter feed: "And yes, Mr. Vice President, you're right…”


In 2015, presidential candidate Donald Trump spoke about the prospect of squaring off against Biden if he had ended up running.

“I think I’d match up great,” he said. “I’m a job producer. I’ve had a great record."

We may yet get to see how that works on the 2020 campaign trail. Trump is not exactly gaffe-free, to put it mildly.

“I hope it’s Biden,” Trump said again last month. “When I say something that you might think is a gaffe, it’s on purpose. It’s not a gaffe. When Biden says something dumb, it’s because he’s dumb.”

“I am a gaffe machine,” Biden admitted in December when asked about potential liabilities of his campaign. “But my God what a wonderful thing compared to a guy who can’t tell the truth,” he said.

[jfish26]

You know what should put this argument to bed? When Trump ducks debating even Biden. And I think the odds of that happening are now well in excess of 50%.

[DeletedUser]

You know what should put this argument to bed? When Trump ducks debating even Biden. And I think the odds of that happening are now well in excess of 50%.

How will we know who is ducking who? Neither side wants their guy on stage. At least nobody reasonable. It was embarrassing last time and it'd be even worse this time.


God it's depressing to think these are our 2 choices.

[jfish26]

You know what should put this argument to bed? When Trump ducks debating even Biden. And I think the odds of that happening are now well in excess of 50%.

How will we know who is ducking who? Neither side wants their guy on stage. At least nobody reasonable. It was embarrassing last time and it'd be even worse this time.


God it's depressing to think these are our 2 choices.

Let's see how it shakes out. I do not at all think Biden will (or will want to) duck the debates.

[twocoach]

I do not give a shit about debates at all. Both will provide the other side with "see, he's not competent" fodder.

I don't vote for a President because he is a good public speaker. I vote based on platforms and based on who they will likely appoint to key positions. Donald Trump has made his platform crystal clear and his track record of appointments and hirings show what V2 of that would be. Hard pass on both of those.

[Sparko]

I have dealt with aging people a lot. As they begin to lose some cognitive faculties, it exposes who they are more and more at their core. And Trump daily becomes more of a monster who remembers Hitler fondly. Biden is someone you would gladly get to know. Trump is a mean shell of resentment who lashes out. Paranoid and dangerous.

And what Dr Pepper said

[Cassandra]

As I have said for what must be years now, the point (and it is an obvious one to me anyway) is that Trump and MAGA attacks on Biden and his cognitive fitness are something even worse than the pot calling the kettle black; it has always been preemptive laundering of Trump’s much more significant decline.

Man, I have to respectfully disagree with that. Biden sure looks and sounds much worse off than Trump does (to me).

But Biden isn't a wannabe dictator. So there's that.

Except for his mandated shots that he pushed. Except for his open borders policy he wants to force onto Texas, letting all kinds of problems into the country. It's funny though, I don't know what people are referring to when they call Trump a dictator and ignore these facts about Biden.

[Sparko]

Mandated shots? Really. Encouraged after your dictator got a million killed. Open borders? WTF do you even read to believe that nonsense???

[MICHHAWK]

uncles open border will be the single biggest issue in november.