B12 2024

[RainbowsandUnicorns]

He was great in the r32 and s16 game.
He didn't show up for the e8 or FF game.
Then had some key moments in the championship.

He was generally dogshit for the rest of the season.

There are so many other players who were far better at basketball under Bill Self that could create their own shot you could have used as a comparison.

I know when you take a moment to stop hating (or at least minimizing his importance to the team) on the guy, you realize without Martin there very well might not have been wins against Providence and Creighton and thus, KU has one less trophy and one less banner.

"Didn't show up for the E8"? I'm a bit confused with that statement. I was there and I swear I thought I saw him show up.
I thought I watched him play 24 minutes. I thought I watched him shoot 4 of 9 FG, 3-7 3pt, grab 6 rebounds, and dish out 2 assists. I thought I watched him played solid defense. I know my friend Paul that I invited didn't show up to the game. I thought Remy did. Maybe I didn't see him show up and I am confusing Remy with someone else?

For fucks sake, the guy was the Midwest Region most outstanding player. Coming off the bench.
Kudos.

"Generally dogshit for the rest of the season"? I wouldn't necessarily say he was "generally dogshit for the rest of the season" but I would agree he didn't contribute much for a considerable portion of it. Part of that being injured/hurt after the Nevada game and part of that being he and Self trying to figure out how to get him back in the the swing of things.

How about the 14 games (almost half of the 30 he played in) when he was healthy and he scored 10 or more points?
He was hardly "dogshit" against Creighton, Providence, UNC, Texas Southern. Hardly "dogshit" against Texas Tech and TCU in the Big 12 Tourney. Hardly "dogshit" against Michigan State, North Texas, Dayton, and St. Johns early in the season. Right? Or am I wrong about that?

[pdub]

Generally dog shit for the rest of the season. Generally. Rest.

ie take the games I mentioned out and we are probably looking at a guy who scored 7 points a game around 42 percent shooting.

ie there were more games in the regular season he scored single digits than double. More games where he shot sub 50 percent than not.

And add on top of that: he was a terrible defender.

I guess dogshit isn’t correct. Dogshit compared to what the expectations were and what the legend of Remy seems to be for some. An average guy off the bench in reality.

[ousdahl]

so after McCullar averaged almost 20ppg on almost 50% shooting for most of the season, he sat out injured for some games, then to come back and score only 10 points on 4-14 fg.

I hope you don't start calling him generally dogshit for the rest of this season too.

point being - maybe we could chill on throwing KU players under the bus?


(unless it's Face Ass)

[ousdahl]

and as for "average," Remy was prob the best guard off the bench we've ever had not named Sherron. At least Self era KU.

if we had a Remy-caliber talent off this season's bench, I'd feel a lot more confident about the next 6 weeks.

[pdub]

Kevin is one of the best defenders in the nation. Hes an AA candidate. He and Remy are worlds apart.
That's where this issue originally stemmed from.
Kevin is just as good at getting his own shot as Remy was at Kansas -- and does so many other things much better as well.

[ousdahl]

it's just a matter of time til Kevin has cognac named after him

[pdub]

if we had a Remy-caliber talent off this season's bench, I'd feel a lot more confident about the next 6 weeks.

For sure.
He was a top notch 6th man.
And on a team that struggles to score, he'd be a big asset if he was feeling it.

[ousdahl]

For sure!

This place is more fun when the folks at the mall are agreeing.

[pdub]

What do we think general stats are for the cutoff for an average player under Self?
Above or below Remy's?

[ousdahl]

Average starter or bench guy?

[pdub]

Average player regardless of whether they started or came off the bench.
Just average player.

[MICHHAWK]

remy martin is a very forgettable dude. that had one very forgettable season at KU.

[ousdahl]

Average healthy or average including injuries and/or doghouse?

[ousdahl]

Man, imagine thinking that 2022 season was forgettable.

It’s not like we lost to Creighton in the second round

[pdub]

The average Bill Self player has these stats:

.319 Crimscore
7.2 PPG, 3.3 RPG, 1.5 APG, .7 SPG, .4 BPG, .4 TO/PG, 48.1% FG, 37.2% 3FG, 70.2% FT, 18.8 MPG.

[pdub]

The average Bill Self starter, more or less, has these stats:

.424 Crimscore.
11 PPG, 4.7 RPG, 2.3 APG, 1 SPG, .6 BPG, .6 TO/PG, 48.4% FG, 38% 3FG, 71.7% FT, 27.5 MPG.

[twocoach]

He was great in the r32 and s16 game.
He didn't show up for the e8 or FF game.
Then had some key moments in the championship.

He was generally dogshit for the rest of the season.

There are so many other players who were far better at basketball under Bill Self that could create their own shot you could have used as a comparison.

I know when you take a moment to stop hating (or at least minimizing his importance to the team) on the guy, you realize without Martin there very well might not have been wins against Providence and Creighton and thus, KU has one less trophy and one less banner.

"Didn't show up for the E8"? I'm a bit confused with that statement. I was there and I swear I thought I saw him show up.
I thought I watched him play 24 minutes. I thought I watched him shoot 4 of 9 FG, 3-7 3pt, grab 6 rebounds, and dish out 2 assists. I thought I watched him played solid defense. I know my friend Paul that I invited didn't show up to the game. I thought Remy did. Maybe I didn't see him show up and I am confusing Remy with someone else?

For fucks sake, the guy was the Midwest Region most outstanding player. Coming off the bench.
Kudos.

"Generally dogshit for the rest of the season"? I wouldn't necessarily say he was "generally dogshit for the rest of the season" but I would agree he didn't contribute much for a considerable portion of it. Part of that being injured/hurt after the Nevada game and part of that being he and Self trying to figure out how to get him back in the the swing of things.

How about the 14 games (almost half of the 30 he played in) when he was healthy and he scored 10 or more points?
He was hardly "dogshit" against Creighton, Providence, UNC, Texas Southern. Hardly "dogshit" against Texas Tech and TCU in the Big 12 Tourney. Hardly "dogshit" against Michigan State, North Texas, Dayton, and St. Johns early in the season. Right? Or am I wrong about that?

Martin was a one-year transfer rental guy and PDub doesn't like them. He isn't going to apply the same evaluation logic to those players as he applies to guys who spend their entire careers at Kansas. Just accept that as the starting point to any comments involving those players.

[RainbowsandUnicorns]

remy martin is a very forgettable dude. that had one very forgettable season at KU.

I forgot.
Who won the 2022 National Championship and who was the Midwest Regional most outstanding player?

[pdub]

Remy Martin:

.359 Crimscore.
8.6 PPG, 3 RPG, 2.5 APG, .1 BPG, .6 SPG, 1.3 TO/PG, 46.2% FG, 38.2% 3FG, 75.4% FT, 21.2 MPG.

Compare that to the average Self player.

.319 Crimscore
7.2 PPG, 3.3 RPG, 1.5 APG, .7 SPG, .4 BPG, .4 TO/PG, 48.1% FG, 37.2% 3FG, 70.2% FT, 18.8 MPG.

It's better...but those numbers include walk-ons and deep deep bench guys.

Now, just for kicks ( pun intended ), compare that to player B:
14.1 PPG, 4 RPG, 1.9 APG, 47.6% FG, 1.2 SPG, .2 BPG, 45.5% 3FG, 76.7% FT.

I think Remy was a slightly above average player under Self who came alive in the post season for us.
It needs to be clear that he was not the most important player in that tournament for us as it seems like the legend around some circles portray it as.
I'd argue he was the 5th most important player for us in that tournament.

Sure, we likely don't win the title without him.
But we DEFINITELY don't win the title without any of these four guys:
DMac, Ochai, Braun or Wilson.

I think he was a great 6th man.
I don't think he's a guy you use when comparing how you'd like McCullar to improve.

[RainbowsandUnicorns]

The average Bill Self player has these stats:

.319 Crimscore
7.2 PPG, 3.3 RPG, 1.5 APG, .7 SPG, .4 BPG, .4 TO/PG, 48.1% FG, 37.2% 3FG, 70.2% FT, 18.8 MPG.

So was Russ Rob a below average, average, or above average player for KU?