Vick

[PhDhawk]

bump for 99 and trad

[Deleted User 89]

such a giver

[CrimsonNBlue]

A senior-less day is appropriate for this season

Right now our 4 best players and 7 of our top 9 didn't play a single minute for KU last year and only 3 of them were even in Lawrence.

With or without Vick, what the team has lacked all year is toughness, and toughness comes with culture. There's no culture within this year's team, and the only way to get it is if the backcourt core comes back for another season.

[CrimsonNBlue]

This thread needs to die.

In fairness, I think the thread was bumped by lobster last night after Self's announcement that Vick wouldn't be here for senior day. That's bump-worthy.

[PhDhawk]

A senior-less day is appropriate for this season

Right now our 4 best players and 7 of our top 9 didn't play a single minute for KU last year and only 3 of them were even in Lawrence.

With or without Vick, what the team has lacked all year is toughness, and toughness comes with culture. There's no culture within this year's team, and the only way to get it is if the backcourt core comes back for another season.

And, this team, as it is today, is really really predictable/one dimensional which makes it really really easy to defend.

[CrimsonNBlue]

A senior-less day is appropriate for this season

Right now our 4 best players and 7 of our top 9 didn't play a single minute for KU last year and only 3 of them were even in Lawrence.

With or without Vick, what the team has lacked all year is toughness, and toughness comes with culture. There's no culture within this year's team, and the only way to get it is if the backcourt core comes back for another season.

And, this team, as it is today, is really really predictable/one dimensional which makes it really really easy to defend.

Absolutely. Hindsight really says we needed all hands on deck (no pun intended, Udoka) to be a good offensive team. Granted, that means having good skillset Vick and good mental Vick, which has always been hot/cold.

And, quite frankly, it's a lot because Dedric is the best player, but he's really not that good. We might be NIT without him, but he just doesn't jump out as one of the better players I've seen here. So many parallels to 2015 when Perry was our best offensive player. Yuck.

[Deleted User 75]

dedric has impressive box score numbers, but he's not impressive visually. He's not imposing. He doesn't take over games very often....in a must win game the other night we were down 15+ pts in the second half (iirc) and he'd only taken 6 shots and 5 were 3s.

There's a reason the NBA isn't very interested. Probably because they don't depend solely on box scores to evaluate a player.

[pdub]

I love me some Perry Ellis but I still think Dedric, at this point, is a better player than senior Ellis.
Ellis has that play hard chart won though.

[Deleted User 75]

Dedric better than Ellis. But neither are as impactful as their numbers make them seem.

[ousdahl]

I think Dedric could have taken over many more games if he was on a more balanced roster with better options.

So much of the year opponents have schemed a pack-it-in defense to bum rush Dedric every time he gets a touch.

[CrimsonNBlue]

And then in Dedric's defense, he doesn't have a lot of firepower around him, so he's easier to take out of the game. Which, that does make the numbers more impressive.

It's all relative, I guess, because he looks better and produces better than Perry. He's probably the 2nd best rebounder I've seen here under Self, and rebounding is a more important attribute now than it was 10-15 years ago.

The NBA is interested enough to take him 2nd round, which is more than we can say about most of our bigs in the last 5-7 years of the Self era (which has turned from big-oriented to small-oriented).

He's just not Marcus. Or Thomas. Which, again, embarrassment of riches.

[Deleted User 75]

Dedric would be fantastic as a 2nd option. Pair him with Frank or Graham and I'd enjoy his skills and contributions much more.

[Deleted User 75]

We will see if the NBA takes him 2nd round. I have my doubts. Just like I had/have with Vick but I think Pdub made me some bet that he'd get drafted somewhere (maybe 1st round, maybe 2nd) but I'm looking good to win that bet.

[CrimsonNBlue]

He's safely projected in the 2nd Round right now.

He was projected 2nd round before the season started, and he's really done nothing to change that projection. His production has been exactly what we expected. We really thought the guy to take over games late would be Grimes. That hasn't panned out, so the microscope on being the dude has narrowed in on Dedric.

[jfish26]

It’s officially senior-less day on Saturday.

https://www.kansascity.com/sports/colle ... 15974.html

So who is the piece of shit here. Self or Vick? Neither? Both?

I'm not sure there's much to read into that statement, except that: (a) the departure was Bill's doing, (b) Vick's return is Bill's decision.

That leaves a lot of room for either, both or neither to have been a piece of shit.

[pdub]

A. Not necessarily
B. Very likely

[Deleted User 75]

Whatever the reason, Self is doing the right thing by not trashing him in the media.

It was self who let him back on the team. So if he kicked him off that's on Self for letting him back on in the 1st place.... So Self is doing the right thing by being politically correct in the media to not do any harm to Vicks future in basketball. It does nobody any good to say anything negative about Vick via media. Whatever happened has happened. Cut ties and move on cordially is the adult thing to do.

[jfish26]

A. Not necessarily
B. Very likely

What are you talking about, (a) YES necessarily, and (b) YES 100% sure.

On (b): if how Vick is doing in "taking care of some things" and "taking care of business" and "handling everything" is relevant to his return (which they are), and if "for every day that passes, the likelihood of him coming back is less and less" is true (which it is), then YES 100% absolutely Vick's return requires Self's approval.

On (a): if 100% absolutely Vick's return requires Self's approval (it does; see above), then YES the departure was necessarily Bill's doing.

Split hairs on whether it matters if Bill pushed Vick out the door, or if Bill happily let him walk out. Same difference.

[pdub]

A. "Coach I have to go, I have a family emergency I just can't ignore anymore."
"OK, you have my blessing, family comes first."

That to me isn't (a) the departure was Bill's "doing".

[pdub]

As for B.
"Coach, I'm just don't have everything under control yet. I'm working on it."
"OK, well it sounds like you aren't ready to come back 100% and I don't think you should come back until you are."

Perhaps unlikely but not impossible.