Let’s have a war!

[MICHHAWK]

i have isreal burnout. i have election burnout. i have wnba burnout.

[Shirley]

i have isreal burnout. i have election burnout. i have wnba burnout.

Sounds like a cry for help, Mich. Fortunately for you, we understand.

[ousdahl]

[RainbowsandUnicorns]

Gutter: since you seem to have good insight with people seeing this first hand.....what % of the Palestinians do you think support Hamas and their terrorist tactics?

I don't know any people in Gaza but I mentioned I have a co-worker who was in Gaza just before October.
Her sentiment was that Hamas doesn't really give a fuck about the average citizen. (Much like in this country and our government. )
I can't even pretend I know the answer to your question but if you forced me to offer my 2 cents, I would guess A LOT more Palestinians support Hamas and their terrorist tactics than Israeli's who are happy that Israel has bombed the shit out of Gaza and that "innocent" Palestinians have been killed because of it. Now that being said, A) I fully believe there are a lot less "innocent" civilians in Gaza than Hamas and the media are trying to brainwash the word that there are. Meaning, I feel there are many people in Gaza who fully supported Hamas and the destruction of Israel BEFORE October 7th and B) I have to figure 85% of Israelis support the IDF DEFENDING their country (Israel) and trying to wipe out Hamas.

[RainbowsandUnicorns]

THE OUTRAGE!
I assume anyone who read that took it in a completely different way than I meant it to be interpreted.
I am being 100% sincere in my saying I feel it's completely wrong and unacceptable behavior.

Here is the kicker. Those are the "band" of Jewish kids (and young adults) that most Israelis are ashamed of, embarrassed about, and would like to disown. Yet, most of the world who views the photos and videos probably assumes that's a bunch of typical Israelis and typical Israeli behavior. It's not.

Kind of like the same way most Chicagoans are ashamed of, embarrassed about, and want to disown the Black kids who come in to neighborhoods such as mine, and behave like assholes, and then people assume that's typical behavior of typical Chicagoans.
This occurred Friday night a few blocks from my home.

https://twitter.com/debrawhyte/status/1 ... 2428617952

[ousdahl]

Oh interesting.

What sort of “band” are they? Like what did/do they do to get their rep.

And here I thought the only comment I might get is how that whole scene looks like some sorta renaissance painting!

[RainbowsandUnicorns]

If you really care I suggest you read about it. Others have explained who they are and what they believe in better than I can.

[DeletedUser]

Sigh.

[ousdahl]

yeah, sorry, considering how many journalists Israel has killed, it was kinda difficult to find this particular story.

but damn, those kids killed that guy. Holy fuck. Injured several other journalists too, including one Israeli press member.

That story is so fucked up that even Biden condemned it, and said the kids should be brought to justice. But who knows if he means it, considering in the same presser he also gave a "yes I know I said Israel attacking Rafah would be crossing a red line, but now that Israel has attacked Rafah, no I still don't think they crossed a red line."

this particular attack went down at some parade thing in the West Bank.

Since 10/7, hundreds of Palestinians have been killed in the West Bank, and thousands more have been displaced, with Israeli authorities destroying hundreds of Palestinian homes and other civilian structures.

oh, BTW, for anyone who thinks this is really still about Hamas...here's your reminder that Hamas does not operate in the West Bank.

[RainbowsandUnicorns]

yeah, sorry, considering how many journalists Israel has killed, it was kinda difficult to find this particular story.

but damn, those kids killed that guy. Holy fuck. Injured several other journalists too, including one Israeli press member.

That story is so fucked up that even Biden condemned it, and said the kids should be brought to justice. But who knows if he means it, considering in the same presser he also gave a "yes I know I said Israel attacking Rafah would be crossing a red line, but now that Israel has attacked Rafah, no I still don't think they crossed a red line."

this particular attack went down at some parade thing in the West Bank.

Since 10/7, hundreds of Palestinians have been killed in the West Bank, and thousands more have been displaced, with Israeli authorities destroying hundreds of Palestinian homes and other civilian structures.

oh, BTW, for anyone who thinks this is really still about Hamas...here's your reminder that Hamas does not operate in the West Bank.

Seriously, you have become randy on this subject/topic.
You should probably consider either getting help or finding another obsession/diversion. You are an embarrassment to yourself.

I'm in a hurry to get to work right now but I will quickly address the first things you wrote.

1. Since you seem to think you know what the fuck you're talking about, tell me, just how many journalists have the Israeli's killed?
2. "it was kinda difficult to find this particular story". REALLY? Anyone with half a brain could have found multiple articles about it in about 10 seconds doing a simple search.
3. "Those kids killed that guy" WHAT????? No, they did NOT kill that guy.

[DeletedUser]

We doing this again today?

Sad.

Why is this fun Ousdahl? Can't you do this somewhere else? Just avoid this topic. Your contributions aren't needed or wanted.

[RainbowsandUnicorns]

yeah, sorry, considering how many journalists Israel has killed, it was kinda difficult to find this particular story.

but damn, those kids killed that guy. Holy fuck. Injured several other journalists too, including one Israeli press member.

That story is so fucked up that even Biden condemned it, and said the kids should be brought to justice. But who knows if he means it, considering in the same presser he also gave a "yes I know I said Israel attacking Rafah would be crossing a red line, but now that Israel has attacked Rafah, no I still don't think they crossed a red line."

this particular attack went down at some parade thing in the West Bank.

Since 10/7, hundreds of Palestinians have been killed in the West Bank, and thousands more have been displaced, with Israeli authorities destroying hundreds of Palestinian homes and other civilian structures.

oh, BTW, for anyone who thinks this is really still about Hamas...here's your reminder that Hamas does not operate in the West Bank.

Seriously, you have become randy on this subject/topic.
You should probably consider either getting help or finding another obsession/diversion. You are an embarrassment to yourself.

I'm in a hurry to get to work right now but I will quickly address the first things you wrote.

1. Since you seem to think you know what the fuck you're talking about, tell me, just how many journalists have the Israeli's killed?
2. "it was kinda difficult to find this particular story". REALLY? Anyone with half a brain could have found multiple articles about it in about 10 seconds doing a simple search.
3. "Those kids killed that guy" WHAT????? No, they did NOT kill that guy.

4. "That story is so fucked up". Yep, it is even more fucked up when YOU make up shit about it.

5. "This particular attack went down at some parade thing in the West Bank". Correct.
I'm not a fan of "Jerusalem Day" but let me guess, you read an anti-Israel story in regards to it from an anti-Israel site? One in which included embellishments and lies? Or one that was full of nothing but unbiased truth/s?
Before you or anyone else accuses me of minimizing what happened, I'll say, yes, it was bullshit what happened and yes the Jews who behaved like assholes 100% deserve ridicule and punishment.

6. "Since 10/7, hundreds of Palestinians have been killed in the West Bank, and thousands more have been displaced, with Israeli authorities destroying hundreds of Palestinian homes and other civilian structures".
Correct. Now tell me why. From YOUR perspective - after educating yourself on the subject. From more than just some blatant anti-Israel media source.

7. "oh, BTW, for anyone who thinks this is really still about Hamas...here's your reminder that Hamas does not operate in the West Bank".
Time out! Who on here thinks "this" is really still about Hamas?
Really? Hamas does NOT operate in the West Bank? Ok, if you can prove that's true - fantastic! That's good news. I'm happy to hear it for everyone's sake.
Now tell us who you know DOES "operate" in the West Bank. If you don't know, I'll simply say I promise you there are militants and terrorist organizations hell bent on the demise of Israel who "operate" in the West Bank that are just as bad if not worse than Hamas.

[ousdahl]

I've become randy on this subject/topic in the sense the bored has turned on me. Indeed, yes, I am cognizant of that.

I still differ from randy in that randy's hot takes (mostly about anti-vax bullshit) were easily and overwhelmingly discredited, proven otherwise, demonstrated to be false by people who know better, and/or take the time to actually understand.

My hot takes, rather, are rooted in some more objective reality; in trying to see beyond the contemporaneous good-guy-bad-guy war rhetoric, which has historically proven to be overwhelmingly inaccurate. You guys are the ones propping up that rhetoric, and very aggressively defending it, even though you can't explain it. In that regard, that makes YOU the randy.

Here's another difference: I'm willing to admit when I'm wrong. Regarding this Israeli kids attacking a journalist story, I read this article and apparently mistook "killed" for "kicked." Ohh, okay, they only kicked him. Thank the lord he's not dead! And I'm sorry for the mistake! I promise I didn’t mean to make shit up! That's what I get for reading the news before I've had my morning coffee...yawn. I really am embarrassed about that one, and really am sorry for the mistake, even if other posters try to tell me I’m not. (Btw here’s my source: https://www.independent.co.uk/news/worl ... 58257.html

Now, when did randy ever admit he was wrong? For that matter, how often do any of you guys ever admitted you were wrong, particularly in this thread? Rather, we get these "definitely not," "obviously wasn't the same deal" sorts of absolute hot takes that, when asked to explain, you guys are unable to, and go radio silent instead...just like randy did. Heck, just like lobster did!

At least one of you had the courage to come out and admit you simply don't understand certain current events relevant to this thread. as dumb as that sounded, it was actually kinda refreshing to hear.

That’s another big difference: I’m actually willing to try for humility here. Most other posters dig their heels in and double down.

now, as for how many journalists Israel has killed, I almost posted something like, If you really care I suggest you read about it. Others have explained who they are and what they believe in better than I can.

But since you asked, let me afford the courtesy of doing the research for you:

https://cpj.org/2024/06/journalist-casu ... 0in%201992.

https://www.icij.org/inside-icij/2024/0 ... r-per-cpj/

https://www.cnn.com/2024/05/02/middleea ... index.html

And if you really wanna go down the rabbit hole, there's even more stories of Israel arresting journalists, many of whom are still detained. The only democracy in the middle east, I guess. And bear in mind, this isn’t the first time we’ve heard of Israel killing and harassing journalists, as has been discussed on this bored previously.

now, if you want to argue that those sources may be suspect, I'm open to that. CNN I guess is a familiar western source, but otherwise, what the effort is the "Committee to Protect Journalists?" Maybe just more Russian propaganda. But, then again, it took years for western media to run stories like, "okay so turns out there were NOT any WMDs in Iraq after all."

(or, if you really wanna shut me up, just go ahead and actually try to articulate why the same dipshits who sold us on that war should suddenly be trusted in real time about these wars, plural. Once again, it's teed up for you!)

[ousdahl]

And forgive me for the delayed response. Believe it or not, I work for a living, and have to spend my weekdays being economically productive rather than enjoying the free time to dick around on a message bored between holes of golf…who do you think I am, illy?

If youd like, I’d respond point for point to your posts, gutter.

But, for now, if I may just ask -

What counts as “anti-Israel” sites?

[DeletedUser]

And forgive me for the delayed response.

Some of us were hoping for no response at all.

[DeletedUser]

Also, pro tip:

If you're having to constantly inform people how much humility you're showing then you're probably not showing as much humility as you're giving yourself credit for.

[ousdahl]

So much for humility, I guess.

Sigh, indeed.

Moving right along…





Russian warships headed to the Caribbean

[RainbowsandUnicorns]

I've become randy on this subject/topic in the sense the bored has turned on me. Indeed, yes, I am cognizant of that.

I still differ from randy in that randy's hot takes (mostly about anti-vax bullshit) were easily and overwhelmingly discredited, proven otherwise, demonstrated to be false by people who know better, and/or take the time to actually understand.

My hot takes, rather, are rooted in some more objective reality; in trying to see beyond the contemporaneous good-guy-bad-guy war rhetoric, which has historically proven to be overwhelmingly inaccurate. You guys are the ones propping up that rhetoric, and very aggressively defending it, even though you can't explain it. In that regard, that makes YOU the randy.

Here's another difference: I'm willing to admit when I'm wrong. Regarding this Israeli kids attacking a journalist story, I read this article and apparently mistook "killed" for "kicked." Ohh, okay, they only kicked him. Thank the lord he's not dead! And I'm sorry for the mistake! I promise I didn’t mean to make shit up! That's what I get for reading the news before I've had my morning coffee...yawn. I really am embarrassed about that one, and really am sorry for the mistake, even if other posters try to tell me I’m not. (Btw here’s my source: https://www.independent.co.uk/news/worl ... 58257.html

Now, when did randy ever admit he was wrong? For that matter, how often do any of you guys ever admitted you were wrong, particularly in this thread? Rather, we get these "definitely not," "obviously wasn't the same deal" sorts of absolute hot takes that, when asked to explain, you guys are unable to, and go radio silent instead...just like randy did. Heck, just like lobster did!

At least one of you had the courage to come out and admit you simply don't understand certain current events relevant to this thread. as dumb as that sounded, it was actually kinda refreshing to hear.

That’s another big difference: I’m actually willing to try for humility here. Most other posters dig their heels in and double down.

now, as for how many journalists Israel has killed, I almost posted something like, If you really care I suggest you read about it. Others have explained who they are and what they believe in better than I can.

But since you asked, let me afford the courtesy of doing the research for you:

https://cpj.org/2024/06/journalist-casu ... 0in%201992.

https://www.icij.org/inside-icij/2024/0 ... r-per-cpj/

https://www.cnn.com/2024/05/02/middleea ... index.html

And if you really wanna go down the rabbit hole, there's even more stories of Israel arresting journalists, many of whom are still detained. The only democracy in the middle east, I guess. And bear in mind, this isn’t the first time we’ve heard of Israel killing and harassing journalists, as has been discussed on this bored previously.

now, if you want to argue that those sources may be suspect, I'm open to that. CNN I guess is a familiar western source, but otherwise, what the effort is the "Committee to Protect Journalists?" Maybe just more Russian propaganda. But, then again, it took years for western media to run stories like, "okay so turns out there were NOT any WMDs in Iraq after all."

(or, if you really wanna shut me up, just go ahead and actually try to articulate why the same dipshits who sold us on that war should suddenly be trusted in real time about these wars, plural. Once again, it's teed up for you!)

First off, I apologize for being nasty to you this morning. I get worked up because I feel social media and heck, now pretty much all media, went from being a great, useful, positive, educational tool, to being an evil tool used to manipulate and dumb down people. That's not directed at you - it's a general statement and I was bombarded with other examples of that this morning. I took it out on you. Sorry about that!

LONG respectful response to your post above that I don't expect anyone (including you ousy) to read all of.

I don't know if the board has "turned" on you but the board may be tired of A narrative in which they disagree with. Right or wrong.
Of course you're entitled to share your thoughts/feelings/opinions, and as I have said before, I actually admire your passion. Knowing people will disagree with you and your standing up for what you believe in shows some balls. To a degree.

You say you differ from randy and then cite examples why - but then you include things that you are similar to randy regarding. re-read what you wrote and give it some thought. Meanwhile, we are all guilty of it to some/different degrees.

Your "objective reality" is probably spot on much if not most of the time but I feel it's also skewed and not at all reality other times.

You imply "you guys" have overwhelmingly inaccurate rhetoric. I'm sure in some ways it may be "overwhelmingly inaccurate" but do you realize you're guilty of the same thing at times?
Some complicated things can't always be explained so easily. Especially when it comes to Israel and the Middle East. Probably a poor example but if someone were to say the color green is basically the same as the color blue, and then show examples, they could be right - if they were to compare very similar shades of green and blue - but they could also be completely wrong, if I were to show them examples of green and blue that are vastly different. Basically meaning, we know what we mean but sometimes we THINK we know what others mean - when we really don't. I should be more cognizant of that in regards to you and my hope is you will be more cognizant of that in regards to others.

Side note - I have Israeli friends and family that have vastly different views and opinions and they are vastly different people in many ways. It's upsetting to me when they get labeled wrongly in a negative light in regards to things that they absolutely are not a part of. There is a lot of assumptions and misunderstandings based on perceived stereotypes.

You say you are willing to admit when you are wrong. Indeed you have done that and I give you credit for it but it seems you're not always so willing to realize and accept that you're wrong - and LIKE RANDY, some of the things you present as being factual - aren't at all factual.
Again, probably a poor example, but I can go on Instagram and post a photo of a gang of kids in Boliva, and say it's a photo of kids in Chicago, and people will believe it's a photo of a kids in Chicago, simply because I said it's a photo of kids in Chicago. Or, here is another example. Look what happened with Angel Reese's recent accusation in regards to fans attacking her teammate/s. MANY people believed her and ran with what she said and shared it on social media, and then when the video was released, there was a whole different story/perspective. Rightfully so.

I can and do forgive you for the mistake in regards to kicked vs. killed but let's be honest, that's a big difference, and like randy, you presented it as being factual.
Regardless, if the media member was kicked, killed, whatever, I stated I feel it was 100% wrong of the Israeli "kids" to have done what they did. I don't make excuses for them, I don't support them, I'm not minimizing what they did because they are Israelis and in general I am a supporter of Israel. I can and do disagree with and ridicule a lot of Israeli things when it comes to "war" and how they deal with it - BUT..... After being in Israel and listening to politicians and military personnel, I realize how complicated and complex things are, and yet it's really fucking simple when it comes to EVERYONE (citizens) wants to live in a country where they are living in peace.

I am someone who understands a minuscule amount of what is going on and I don't pretend to know anything other than that minuscule that I do understand.
I am willing to read, listen, and learn but fully admit there are things I am just not interested in and don't care to learn about. Mostly because it's frustrating and upsetting to me and I don't have ideas and solutions on how to resolve the issues.

In regards to the journalists the Israeli's have killed, I asked if you knew how many because it's actually somewhat complicated. Of course one INNOCENT journalist is one too many.
Here lies the problem. Yes, most journalists are "innocent" but... SOME are not. You would think highly trained IDF members could differentiate between legit "innocent" journalists and those who are in cahoots with the terrorists and/or purposely lying about what is going on, but realize many IDF members are not so highly trained. Again, maybe a bad analogy, but think of a Police Officer in the USA. Highly trained. Poorly trained. Either way, put in a stressful situation. Kill the wrong person. Wrong place at the wrong time. Wasn't intentional. That's just one aspect of it - but it is an aspect.
OF COURSE IDF members have intentionally killed "innocent" journalists and OF COURSE it's 100% wrong when it has happened but not everything is as black and white as it seems.
Heck, I glanced at the list of journalists that have been killed and noticed many if not most on the list were killed in "enemy" territory during a war. That's a lot different than them standing on a street corner and having their head blown off because they are an "innocent" journalist.
Yesterday I alluded to those people in the photo you provided are in fact Israel Jews but they are a "gang" (I should have probably said "facet" or "sect") of Israeli Jews that are frowned upon by the majority of Israeli Jews.

Yes, journalists have been arrested in Israel and no doubt some if not many and/or most don't deserve to be arrested and detained - but once again I will tell you, not every journalist is a "good guy". Heck, some piece of shit journalists were enablers on October 7th. Those journalists who were involved and then killed or arrested and detained - good. Fuck 'em.
While I have very mixed feelings, the journalists know what they are getting in to. Short side note - I was in a support group (drug addicts) with a former OU Football player who was a Cameraman for CBS and he was sent to the "Gulf War". He told me he thought he was going to die there (get killed) and at times he wished he did.
Back to Israel, I don't support detaining "innocent journalists" for extended periods of time nor do I support arresting "innocent journalists" just because they are casting Israeli's in a negative light but I do support Israel doing whatever they feel is necessary to prevent journalists from being in cahoots with terrorists and purposely lying about what is and isn't taking place.

[Shirley]

Israel rescues 4 hostages kidnapped in a Hamas-led attack on Oct. 7

Israel said Saturday it rescued four hostages who were kidnapped in a Hamas-led attack on Oct. 7, in the largest such hostage recovery operation since the war with Hamas began in Gaza.

The army said it rescued Noa Argamani, 25; Almog Meir Jan, 21; Andrey Kozlov, 27; and Shlomi Ziv, 40, in a complex special daytime operation in Nuseirat. The hostages were rescued in two separate locations in the heart of Nuseirat, it said.

...One of those rescued on Saturday, Argamani, has been one of the most widely recognized hostages since she was abducted from a music festival.

The video of her abduction was among the first to surface, images of her horrified face widely shared — Argamani detained between two men on a motorcycle, one arm outstretched and the other held down as she screams “Don’t kill me!”

[...]

[Shirley]

I'd heard it was bloody, but couldn't find a figure.
But now hearing at least 107 people were killed in the two IDF operations to free the 4 hostages.

Hamas wins again, even if they lost 4 of their hostages.