2024

[TDub]

Part of the story of this election is the break between people's perception of the current economy versus the reality of the current economy.

Americans have a specific annual income in mind for what it would take to feel financially secure, according to a new survey from Bankrate. The magic number? $186,000 per year.

Currently, only 6% of U.S. adults make that amount or more, Bankrate said. The median family income falls between $51,500 and $86,000, according to the latest federal data. Achieving financial security means being able to pay your bills while having enough left over to make some discretionary purchases and put money away for the future, the personal finance site said.

Many inflation-weary consumers continue to experience financial stress, with a new Federal Reserve Bank of Philadelphia survey finding that 35% of Americans are worried about making ends meet, up from 29% a year earlier.

That gap between what the typical American earns and what they aspire to earn means "Americans have their eyes set on this high income, and they think they need to make more money even if they know it's unrealistic they'll never make that amount," Sarah Foster, an analyst at Bankrate, told CBS MoneyWatch.

Earning more remains at the top of many Americans' priorities as the price of shelter, food and medical care remain stubbornly high after two years of rising inflation. To cope, consumers are cutting spending on dining out, entertainment and travel, a TransUnion study found.

Bankrate's survey of 2,400 Americans in mid-May found that younger generations are more optimistic about eventually earning enough to live comfortably.

What does it take to be rich?

Americans have an even higher yardstick for feeling rich. The survey found they believe they would need to earn $520,000 a year to qualify as wealthy — up from their $483,000 response during the same survey last year.

The rising cost of consumer goods is a chief reason for the increase, Foster said. "Inflation is the centerpiece to this narrative," Foster said. "Americans know where the bar is for living comfortably, but every time they get there, the cost of living goes up and the bar grows further and further away."

Another recent report found that adults in major U.S. cities need to earn $96,500 annually before taxes to afford basic necessities and savings, while a two-parent household with two children needs a combined $235,000 for a comfortable life.

Interestingly, 2023 research from the late Nobel Prize-winning economist Daniel Kahneman and colleagues suggests that happiness does increase with income, up to about $500,000 – roughly the income Americans told Bankrate would make them feel rich.

So are Americans in general unrealistic about personal finances/wealth? The car buying process has me looking at one aspect. The trucks I am looking at were listed at around $70K 4-5 years ago. Someone bought them with a loan. My guess is I make more money than 95% of these buyers, and I would never sign up for a $70K truck loan cuz it is a bad use of money and a $750/month car payment would pinch my monthly miserly spending. That is a lot of fucking weed money down the drain.

I hear "I can't afford a house and rent is too high" and then I see a new vehicle which ensures that the monthly pay will preclude saving money to buy a house. I see people looking at their "starter home" and they are looking in a new neighborhood and their "starter home" wish list has three bedrooms as a minimum, to house a family they don't have. Recessions seem to reshape people's expectations, but the following boom seems to always create unrealistic expectations.

I know, shut up boomer.

this is all true.

[twocoach]

Part of the story of this election is the break between people's perception of the current economy versus the reality of the current economy.

Americans have a specific annual income in mind for what it would take to feel financially secure, according to a new survey from Bankrate. The magic number? $186,000 per year.

Currently, only 6% of U.S. adults make that amount or more, Bankrate said. The median family income falls between $51,500 and $86,000, according to the latest federal data. Achieving financial security means being able to pay your bills while having enough left over to make some discretionary purchases and put money away for the future, the personal finance site said.

Many inflation-weary consumers continue to experience financial stress, with a new Federal Reserve Bank of Philadelphia survey finding that 35% of Americans are worried about making ends meet, up from 29% a year earlier.

That gap between what the typical American earns and what they aspire to earn means "Americans have their eyes set on this high income, and they think they need to make more money even if they know it's unrealistic they'll never make that amount," Sarah Foster, an analyst at Bankrate, told CBS MoneyWatch.

Earning more remains at the top of many Americans' priorities as the price of shelter, food and medical care remain stubbornly high after two years of rising inflation. To cope, consumers are cutting spending on dining out, entertainment and travel, a TransUnion study found.

Bankrate's survey of 2,400 Americans in mid-May found that younger generations are more optimistic about eventually earning enough to live comfortably.

What does it take to be rich?

Americans have an even higher yardstick for feeling rich. The survey found they believe they would need to earn $520,000 a year to qualify as wealthy — up from their $483,000 response during the same survey last year.

The rising cost of consumer goods is a chief reason for the increase, Foster said. "Inflation is the centerpiece to this narrative," Foster said. "Americans know where the bar is for living comfortably, but every time they get there, the cost of living goes up and the bar grows further and further away."

Another recent report found that adults in major U.S. cities need to earn $96,500 annually before taxes to afford basic necessities and savings, while a two-parent household with two children needs a combined $235,000 for a comfortable life.

Interestingly, 2023 research from the late Nobel Prize-winning economist Daniel Kahneman and colleagues suggests that happiness does increase with income, up to about $500,000 – roughly the income Americans told Bankrate would make them feel rich.

So are Americans in general unrealistic about personal finances/wealth? The car buying process has me looking at one aspect. The trucks I am looking at were listed at around $70K 4-5 years ago. Someone bought them with a loan. My guess is I make more money than 95% of these buyers, and I would never sign up for a $70K truck loan cuz it is a bad use of money and a $750/month car payment would pinch my monthly miserly spending. That is a lot of fucking weed money down the drain.

I hear "I can't afford a house and rent is too high" and then I see a new vehicle which ensures that the monthly pay will preclude saving money to buy a house. I see people looking at their "starter home" and they are looking in a new neighborhood and their "starter home" wish list has three bedrooms as a minimum, to house a family they don't have. Recessions seem to reshape people's expectations, but the following boom seems to always create unrealistic expectations.

I know, shut up boomer.

Americans have little self control on average and are notorious for spending too much, eating too much and saving too little. The "I work hard, I deserve something nice" mantra plays out every day as people buy more than what they need.

[Sparko]

I am calling this Twocoach's Crunchwrap Supreme paradox. A simple person buys what he/she doesn't need at a higher price than they should, that actually hurts their self interests, and then complains about the cost of things they cannot afford.

[RainbowsandUnicorns]

Random person - "Gutter, you complain about how much you pay for groceries, why don't you go to somewhere like Aldi"?
Gutter - "I don't have a car. The cost of an Uber or Cab makes it more expensive for me to buy groceries at Aldi than if I buy them in my hood".

Random person - "Hey Gutter, why don't you move if you are complaining about how much you pay for rent"?
Gutter - "Where do you suggest I move to"?
Random person - "Further north".
Gutter - "Ok, but then I have moving costs and daily transportation costs", it will actually cost me more more money to pay $250 a month less in rent.


I just read this. I don't know how accurate it is....
The median salary in Chicago, IL is $65,250, with 80% of salaries falling between $31,668 and $143,550.


Ok, let's say a single person is making $65,250 a year living in Chicago. After taxes = $47,500

These are what I am estimating the average costs are for the average person living in Chicago.
Rent for one bedroom apartment $1800 a month = $21,600
Groceries at $300 a month = $3600
Car payments including financing the car, insurance, parking, registration, maintenance, gas, etc = $10,000 a year.
Clothing = $2000 a year.
Household products, personal hygiene products, medications, = $1000 a year.
Utilities including cell phone = $2000 a year.
Medical expenses including medical insurance (partially paid for by employer - mine is fully paid for) primary care, dental, eye care, etc. $2500 a year.

We are already at $42,500 for NECESSITIES.

Add in Entertainment, travel, restaurants/bars, etc., you hit that $47,500 pretty damn easily. FOR ONE PERSON.

Someone please explain to me how a family of 4 or 5 survives on less than a $62,250 a year salary living an "average" lifestyle in Chicago.

[TDub]

I spend way less the 2k a year on clothes and quite a bit more than 300 a month on groceries

not that any of that matters, just a nitpicking point.

[Sparko]

Gutter: they do it on two wage earners. Or side jobs

[RainbowsandUnicorns]

I spend way less the 2k a year on clothes and quite a bit more than 300 a month on groceries

not that any of that matters, just a nitpicking point.

Oh, I am sure it's vastly different for most people. I was just throwing out some numbers I felt MIGHT be "averages".
I don't own a car. That saves me a substantial amount of money. I spend too much more than $1800 a month on rent. That's a shame on me. Problem is like I said earlier in my post, I could spend $1800 (or less) a month but then I would have added expenses I don't currently have paying the higher rent.

[MICHHAWK]

i have spent my entire adult life living within my means. only partaking in what i can afford.

it's boring. and i don't really have much. but it's safe.

[RainbowsandUnicorns]

Gutter: they do it on two wage earners. Or side jobs

Absolutely true for many people. But not all - or even most?

Back to the 2024 election.

As I too often do, just for the hell of it, I typed in something to the X search "bar".
2024 Election -
This was the first result.

https://twitter.com/VincentOshana/statu ... 2590646406

So.... What if any influence does Musk and X have on what is the first thing that appears when I type in something on X?

[RainbowsandUnicorns]

i have spent my entire adult life living within my means. only partaking in what i can afford.

it's boring. and i don't really have much. but it's safe.

A sincere kudos to MICH for contributing what I feel is a valuable life lesson.

[Sparko]

The Christian Nationalist state wishes to thank Mich for keeping his meager possessions in good shape along with his property so that it can be re-distributed to more deserving corporations. It also reminds us that Soylent Green is in every Crunchwrap Supreme. Yummy.

[japhy]

It's all about priorities and understanding finances and keeping your debt low.

I have an audio system that cost more than my last truck. I enjoy listening to music more than I enjoy having a nice truck. I am reminded of working on expensive homes and the concept of a "master bath" that is a personal spa and sanctuary. At most I spend 15 minutes in the bathroom to shit, shower and shave. It just needs to be clean and functional, OK I do actually want a warm water bidet for those Jan/Feb mornings in the mountains. And it's a hygiene thing. I will live out my retirement in the back of a commercial building on "Main Street" in the desert. But the interior of the building looks like a museum of contemporary art. I have virtually no debt and enough money to live out the rest of my days and have money leftover when I pass. Making good money is part of it, but being responsible and strategic with investments is an even bigger part of the equation. My partners trade in their Audi sedan every two years so they always have that new car smell to look forward to in the morning and buy vacation homes in Estes Park. Every year they push for another raise and push to optimize profits. They need the income to finance their lifestyles. I want to do a few more cool projects before I retire and wonder where to invest my dividends. To each their own.

In a lot of ways my lifestyle isn't much different than when I started may own two person company in 1988 and was taking home $25k/year. You set priorities and expectations and live accordingly.

It's interesting watching my daughters, who are now in their late 20s. They seem to have taken on many of my financial practices. One lives comfortably in San Francisco and the other in Lawrence. Vastly different jobs and income, but they both make the best of what they have.

[Overlander]

i have spent my entire adult life living within my means. only partaking in what i can afford.

it's boring. and i don't really have much.

Yeah, we could tell

[Overlander]

It's all about priorities and understanding finances and keeping your debt low.

You set priorities and expectations and live accordingly.

This.
I make pretty damn good money.
I just took out a $150k loan on a 510k home in Southern Washington. That loan will be paid off in less than 3 years.

I have no credit card debt, we own our vehicles outright.

Every (non Jeep) purchase that we make, we ask ourselves “does this get us closer to retirement, or farther away?”

This one question alters our spending.

I want to retire at 62, and I will.

Greeting people at WalMart at 70 would be hell on earth for this guy.

[jfish26]

It's all about priorities and understanding finances and keeping your debt low.

I have an audio system that cost more than my last truck. I enjoy listening to music more than I enjoy having a nice truck. I am reminded of working on expensive homes and the concept of a "master bath" that is a personal spa and sanctuary. At most I spend 15 minutes in the bathroom to shit, shower and shave. It just needs to be clean and functional, OK I do actually want a warm water bidet for those Jan/Feb mornings in the mountains. And it's a hygiene thing. I will live out my retirement in the back of a commercial building on "Main Street" in the desert. But the interior of the building looks like a museum of contemporary art. I have virtually no debt and enough money to live out the rest of my days and have money leftover when I pass. Making good money is part of it, but being responsible and strategic with investments is an even bigger part of the equation. My partners trade in their Audi sedan every two years so they always have that new car smell to look forward to in the morning and buy vacation homes in Estes Park. Every year they push for another raise and push to optimize profits. They need the income to finance their lifestyles. I want to do a few more cool projects before I retire and wonder where to invest my dividends. To each their own.

In a lot of ways my lifestyle isn't much different than when I started may own two person company in 1988 and was taking home $25k/year. You set priorities and expectations and live accordingly.

It's interesting watching my daughters, who are now in their late 20s. They seem to have taken on many of my financial practices. One lives comfortably in San Francisco and the other in Lawrence. Vastly different jobs and income, but they both make the best of what they have.

I, personally, think it's more financially difficult for people in their 20s now than it was for me or for most of us here. I think that housing and education costs have, for people in the 22% tax bracket (for individuals, $47k-$100k) for example, increased at a greater rate than salaries.

Same general macro issue as the Magical Disappearing Middle Class.

[RainbowsandUnicorns]

[MICHHAWK]

they replace old uncle with gretchell whitmer. and they have my vote.

[RainbowsandUnicorns]

they replace old uncle with gretchell whitmer. and they have my vote.

I can't help but assume MICH is being cute but it wouldn't necessarily shock me if he doesn't know the name of the Governor of his state. Or that she's a Democrat.
Maybe I am not giving MICH the benefit of my doubt and perhaps he will vote for her so she will no longer be the Democratic Governor of his state?

[MICHHAWK]

i would vote for that joe munchin dude also.

[MICHHAWK]

i would vote for bill clinton.