2024

[DeletedUser]

Harris would likely perform well, also, but she has a tendency to use waaaaay to many words and complicate the narrative

For sure. It's almost like she does it while she thinks about what she actually wants to say.

I think she'll get better with time.

[japhy]

Kamala Harris/Liz Cheney

[Overlander]

Kamala Harris/Liz Cheney

I could wade through the exploding MAGA brains to vote for that!

[RainbowsandUnicorns]

If this is true, then my personal opinion is that withholding a vote for Biden does not make sense.

The thing that does not make sense, is that mich and I have the same opinion about a political candidate. Fuck me, what am I missing?

At this point, I think the Ds' odds go:

1 - Someone else, with Biden's money and support
2 - Biden

[enormous gap]

3 - Someone else, without Biden's money and support

In other words, this is up to Biden (and Harris). I think Harris is electable.

Define "electable". Possibility of being elected? Sure. Also possibility of her not being elected.
Capable or performing the job of President? Sure. Also possibility of her doing a shitty a job.
Biggest problem is if Biden is replaced, I don't know who is more "electable" than Harris and I don't feel she would get elected over Trump. Unless MAYBE Trump has some god forsaken running mate and she goes the "safe" route with her running mate.

[RainbowsandUnicorns]

Harris would likely perform well, also, but she has a tendency to use waaaaay to many words and complicate the narrative

For sure. It's almost like she does it while she thinks about what she actually wants to say.

I think she'll get better with time.

Really? I ask because let's be honest, like Joe Biden, seems to me she has gotten worse with time.
Doesn't mean she can't/won't pull a 180 but I wouldn't count on it.

[DeletedUser]

Harris would likely perform well, also, but she has a tendency to use waaaaay to many words and complicate the narrative

For sure. It's almost like she does it while she thinks about what she actually wants to say.

I think she'll get better with time.

Really? I ask because let's be honest, like Joe Biden, seems to me she has gotten worse with time.
Doesn't mean she can't/won't pull a 180 but I wouldn't count on it.

Really.

I don't think she'll turn into Obama, but she is absolutely capable of improving her public speaking abilities.

[RainbowsandUnicorns]

For sure. It's almost like she does it while she thinks about what she actually wants to say.

I think she'll get better with time.

Really? I ask because let's be honest, like Joe Biden, seems to me she has gotten worse with time.
Doesn't mean she can't/won't pull a 180 but I wouldn't count on it.

Really.

I don't think she'll turn into Obama, but she is absolutely capable of improving her public speaking abilities.

Honestly, I'm not so sure she is capable. I like to think she is but she hasn't shown me that in the last 4+ years. Of course I am being critical (overly?) but my guess is I'm hardly alone in being an "independent" voter who feels that way.
Bottom line, I am not so concerned with her public speaking ability. She is who she is (That can be a Kamala Harrisism ) and I don't think she's a terrible VP. I am more concerned with if she is "electable" should she be the Democratic Presidential candidate on the 2024 ballot.

[jfish26]

Kamala Harris/Liz Cheney

Would win by 15 points.

[KUTradition]

Kamala Harris/Liz Cheney

Would win by 15 points.

wait, you think Cheney would pull R votes but not Kinzinger?

[RainbowsandUnicorns]

Kamala Harris/Liz Cheney

Would win by 15 points.

Less of a chance of them running together and winning by "15 points" than my getting elected Mayor of Chicago in 2027. Imjustsayin'.

[jfish26]

Kamala Harris/Liz Cheney

Would win by 15 points.

wait, you think Cheney would pull R votes but not Kinzinger?

I do, I think her national profile is significantly greater than Kinzinger’s, and the name would pull the Bush pubs.

[jfish26]

Really? I ask because let's be honest, like Joe Biden, seems to me she has gotten worse with time.
Doesn't mean she can't/won't pull a 180 but I wouldn't count on it.

Really.

I don't think she'll turn into Obama, but she is absolutely capable of improving her public speaking abilities.

Honestly, I'm not so sure she is capable. I like to think she is but she hasn't shown me that in the last 4+ years. Of course I am being critical (overly?) but my guess is I'm hardly alone in being an "independent" voter who feels that way.
Bottom line, I am not so concerned with her public speaking ability. She is who she is (That can be a Kamala Harrisism ) and I don't think she's a terrible VP. I am more concerned with if she is "electable" should she be the Democratic Presidential candidate on the 2024 ballot.

What is she supposed to have shown you?

[jhawks99]

He does not get a lot of name recognition, but I would vote for Andy Beshear in a second. Two term gov of red-state KY. Lead KY through covid and did it well, daily radio addresses. The mich's of KY hated him but he had enough cross-party support to get reelected after covid.

[jfish26]

He does not get a lot of name recognition, but I would vote for Andy Beshear in a second. Two term gov of red-state KY. Lead KY through covid and did it well, daily radio addresses. The mich's of KY hated him but he had enough cross-party support to get reelected after covid.

Would be very high on the list.

[TDub]

Kamala Harris/Liz Cheney

Would win by 15 points.

Id vote for it (because we have no choice....cue Shirley....)

but, Im not sure this is the election to get cute and swing for the fences of progress. A non Trump victory is the only required thing....and there are still some people that that ticket would push back to red.

[jfish26]

Kamala Harris/Liz Cheney

Would win by 15 points.

Id vote for it (because we have no choice....cue Shirley....)

but, Im not sure this is the election to get cute and swing for the fences of progress. A non Trump victory is the only required thing....and there are still some people that that ticket would push back to red.

I guess, when I think of a unity ticket, I take that as each candidate (and its supporters) sacrificing a portion of its agenda in order to win in the first place.

I 100% agree with you on not getting cute and swinging for the fences...but I think - IF you can manage it seamlessly, and god help us all for needing the Democrats to get execution right - a unity ticket is the MOST reliable way to winning in the first place.

[MICHHAWK]

john kasich. tulsi gabbard.

[RainbowsandUnicorns]

Really.

I don't think she'll turn into Obama, but she is absolutely capable of improving her public speaking abilities.

Honestly, I'm not so sure she is capable. I like to think she is but she hasn't shown me that in the last 4+ years. Of course I am being critical (overly?) but my guess is I'm hardly alone in being an "independent" voter who feels that way.
Bottom line, I am not so concerned with her public speaking ability. She is who she is (That can be a Kamala Harrisism ) and I don't think she's a terrible VP. I am more concerned with if she is "electable" should she be the Democratic Presidential candidate on the 2024 ballot.

What is she supposed to have shown you?

She isn't supposed to have shown me anything other than what she's shown me (another Kamala Harrisism )

Being more serious (yes, I was being serious with my first sentence), I'm not understanding the question in regards to what I think you may be looking for in regards to my answer (another Kamala Harrisism?).
I thought I was being fairly clear by saying she hasn't shown me in the past 4+ years that she is capable of improving her public speaking. Meaning, to me, her public speaking hasn't improved in the past 4+ years and if she was making any effort to improve her public speaking - then she hasn't succeeded in that regard.
All that being said, I don't believe she has made an effort to improve her public speaking because I don't believe she and the Dems have felt it's a big enough issue. Until MAYBE now?

[RainbowsandUnicorns]

john kasich. tulsi gabbard.

Zero chance you spelled their names correctly on purpose. Amiright?

Kasich isn't going to run as a Dem but Tulsi isn't a terrible VP candidate. Problem is I don't think she pairs well with Kamala should Kamala be the Presidential candidate.

[jfish26]

Honestly, I'm not so sure she is capable. I like to think she is but she hasn't shown me that in the last 4+ years. Of course I am being critical (overly?) but my guess is I'm hardly alone in being an "independent" voter who feels that way.
Bottom line, I am not so concerned with her public speaking ability. She is who she is (That can be a Kamala Harrisism ) and I don't think she's a terrible VP. I am more concerned with if she is "electable" should she be the Democratic Presidential candidate on the 2024 ballot.

What is she supposed to have shown you?

She isn't supposed to have shown me anything other than what she's shown me (another Kamala Harrisism )

Being more serious (yes, I was being serious with my first sentence), I'm not understanding the question in regards to what I think you may be looking for in regards to my answer (another Kamala Harrisism?).
I thought I was being fairly clear by saying she hasn't shown me in the past 4+ years that she is capable of improving her public speaking. Meaning, to me, her public speaking hasn't improved in the past 4+ years and if she was making any effort to improve her public speaking - then she hasn't succeeded in that regard.
All that being said, I don't believe she has made an effort to improve her public speaking because I don't believe she and the Dems have felt it's a big enough issue. Until MAYBE now?

I mean, she was excellent after the debate last week, and that was on an emergency, unprepared basis.

I think there has been a deliberate program on the right to frame her as an unqualified, jumped-up token. That program is, to me, projection and good 'ol fashioned bigotry.