What happened to the immigration thread?

[jfish26]

Fish has been unbelievably patient with you.

Sure?

Not only that, but he continues to engage and provide back up and logic for all of his arguments

No, he hasn’t.

He’s admitted his lack of understanding about certain issues, and practically bragged about his ignorance about others.

while you just say nuh uh and fling shit at the wall in random directions hoping something will stink bad enough for people to just agree and atop arguing so you can claim victory. It's very trumpy.

Actually, I’ve made an effort to exhibit patience myself, and to avoid “flinging shit” in favor of actual arguments with actual credible sources.

But I’ve also accepted there is no victory to claim here. Rather, it’s the proverbial wrestling a pig in mud

You're aware, of course, that the reason I decline to express strong opinions about things I don't understand is that I do not feel those opinions would have adequate support.

I assume you would be critical of me simply adopting "my team's" rhetoric on those matters. And that criticism would be warranted!

[jfish26]

your second response highlights exquisitely one of the main problems here. I would guess 99.99% of users (and breathing humans) would look at fish' responses and agree that he does indeed provide more the adequate back up, logic and evidence for his arguments (I mean...lawyer yea?)

Just because you don't agree with the provided documentation doesn't mean it doesn't exist. The fact that you continue to insist that it doesn't exist is a mortal wound to your credibility on any applicable subject.

Remember the other day when fish referred links to himself as some sorta source?

Just imagine if I tried to pull that shit!

I assume you are talking about the post that follows. You will see that you asked for examples of my own posts, and so I provided them.

And what I have said - I am glad to go find an example, if you would like - is that, on the basis of the evidence available to us, the relative degrees of culpability in Russia/Ukraine are tipped SO far in Russia's direction so as to support a categorical view of Russia as the aggressor, and Ukraine as the victim.

Please do go find an example! Feel free to post it in more relevant threads. And bonus points if it’s something more substantive than shameless good guy bad guy rhetoric. I’d gladly consider whatever example you might find.

(That’s at odds with your stubborn refusal to even consider all the evidence I’ve provided that, while yea Russia def is overwhelmingly to blame, there’s still plenty of blame to go around)

viewtopic.php?p=386959&hilit=justified#p386959

viewtopic.php?p=384313&hilit=justified#p384313

viewtopic.php?p=407338&hilit=responsibility#p407338

viewtopic.php?p=398801&hilit=responsibility#p398801

viewtopic.php?p=397693&hilit=responsibility#p397693

And so, yes, guilty: I was a "source" for the examples you asked me for, which were (as you requested) my own posts.

[ousdahl]

I asked for an example, yea

I’ll have to go double check that discussion, cuz at least what you quoted does not indicate I requested your own posts. I don’t recall requesting your own posts either tho.

It took me by surprise at the time, and I thought it just wasn’t worth engaging further.

Either way, those are just links to your own posts parroting shameless good guy bad guy rhetoric, so at the very least, you didn’t earn the bonus points.

[ousdahl]

Fish has been unbelievably patient with you.

Sure?

Not only that, but he continues to engage and provide back up and logic for all of his arguments

No, he hasn’t.

He’s admitted his lack of understanding about certain issues, and practically bragged about his ignorance about others.

while you just say nuh uh and fling shit at the wall in random directions hoping something will stink bad enough for people to just agree and atop arguing so you can claim victory. It's very trumpy.

Actually, I’ve made an effort to exhibit patience myself, and to avoid “flinging shit” in favor of actual arguments with actual credible sources.

But I’ve also accepted there is no victory to claim here. Rather, it’s the proverbial wrestling a pig in mud

You're aware, of course, that the reason I decline to express strong opinions about things I don't understand is that I do not feel those opinions would have adequate support.

I assume you would be critical of me simply adopting "my team's" rhetoric on those matters. And that criticism would be warranted!

You declined to express a strong opinion about one of the most unambiguously horrific headlines so far in the war thread that even dozens of lawmakers from your “team” condemned it.

But yea, politics as team sport is toxic. That’s not necessarily directed at you, it’s just in general. And, sadly, I’m afraid the remedy may be, or may by its nature have to be, something other than voting for one team or another.

[jfish26]

Actually, it was dems who linked immigration policy Ukraine policy, when they tried to make a deal with the cult.

Or was it the cult?

Either way, I assure you it wasn’t me who decided we should link border policy and military policy.

In act, I specifically tried to NOT mention “Ukraine,” cuz I didn’t want you doing just this, AGAIN.

Ok.

And unfortunately, sausage has to be made.

My opinion is that - within the realm of what was realistically achievable within our system of government and the present composition of our government - the United States would be better off had the immigration bill passed.

And that opinion, which recognizes that this would be a rightward shift away from what is perhaps ideal, is HEAVILY influenced by the MOST important goal in all of our politics: that MAGA is kept out of the White House and, less likely but hopefully, the House and Senate majorities.

Ok?

I can mostly agree in principle.

But the bummer is the good guy bad guy partisanship of it. You can replace “maga” with “libs” and it’s so similar to the battle cry of the gop.

On some bigger ideological level, I may be even more concerned about this ideal of wanting to snuff out any any opposing views in gummint, regardless of which direction.

This two-party system is shit, especially when so much of the time both parties are pretty much the same thing

My opinion is that if the Dems dither around, bickering on principles/ideals, and MAGA takes the election, it's more likely than not that we're a decade at least - and probably some VERY significant societal upheaval - away from even being able to work toward principles/ideals again.

[ousdahl]

My brother in Christ, but we’re already there.

[jfish26]

I asked for an example, yea

I’ll have to go double check that discussion, cuz at least what you quoted does not indicate I requested your own posts. I don’t recall requesting your own posts either tho.

It took me by surprise at the time, and I thought it just wasn’t worth engaging further.

Either way, those are just links to your own posts parroting shameless good guy bad guy rhetoric, so at the very least, you didn’t earn the bonus points.

Ous.

Let me shorten the exchange:

Fish: "And what I have said - I am glad to go find an example, if you would like..."

Ous: "Please do go find an example."

Is that...not you requesting my own posts?

[jfish26]

My brother in Christ, but we’re already there.

But, we're not. Especially after the last ten days.

[ousdahl]

Actually, I was expecting something more along the lines of, an example of the evidence available to us, the relative degrees of culpability in Russia/Ukraine are tipped SO far in Russia's direction so as to support a categorical view of Russia as the aggressor, and Ukraine as the victim.

And no offense but I just dunno if I count links to you parroting UnJuSTiFiEd!!! as much in the way of evidence.

But I didn’t wanna push it further at the time, and don’t have a ton of interest in doing so now, either.

[DeletedUser]

Still going, huh?

Gotta be better things to do in beautiful Colorado.

[DeletedUser]

Some real LOL here.

1. Illy is on the side of the ‘voices of reason’. Admittedly, his meds seem to be all in line with what he needs these days, and isn’t ALWAYS an automatic tune-out. But there was a time he was far, far worse than anyone here. (That’s opinion). What’s fact is he annoyed just about everyone, all the time, and sidetracked conversations, etc. etc. One would (I’d) think he might extend an olive branch at some point realizing Ousdahl might not mean harm, like he believes he didn’t at one point. But I don’t know, I don’t read half the shit on this particular board.

I have. Numerous times. Offered advice from personal experience. With evidence that if he'd just stop trying so hard to score gotchas or both sides it up or ESPECIALLY trying to dominate convos way above his pay grade, that he could turn around the way he's treated around here. Using myself as a personal example. Sometimes every topic isn't for every poster.

I don't know shit about baseball. So I don't engage in the baseball threads, even though I read every post on the baseball thread.

He's hell bent on being a (the) driving force of discussion on this board on anything and everything political, even though he's way out of his league trying to display his intellectual superiority against these guys. It results in moving goal posts, poorly thought out arguments, and an almost 3 year old continous meltdown.



Thankfully, I don't require medication. I just required a break and some self reflection about messageboard behavior and the topics I should involve myself in. And not for everyone else, for myself, so that I could enjoy the messageboard. He doesn't have to tailor his posting to anyone's liking. He's free to post however he wants. But he'd be happier here if he changed....and for 3 days he avoided certain topics and everyone picked on Mich instead. And when he did post things (fish pics and some other things), several of us (me and Shirley come to mind) said nice things to him and tried to improve the harmony around here with him.

My worthless 2 cents.

[ousdahl]

feels weird to even say, but...

pretty good post, illy. Mostly, at least.

there's a couple parts I think are worth breaking down...

[DeletedUser]

Oh boy. Please don't. Let's just all do better tomorrow. Myself included.

[ousdahl]

if he'd just stop trying so hard to score gotchas or both sides it up or ESPECIALLY trying to dominate convos way above his pay grade

I don't try to dominate convos tbh. And I concede, much really is above my pay grade. But, come on, I can't even express frustration about dems conceding to pubs on immigration issues without being antagonized as a Russian spam bot, again, even tho that's precisely the the sort of antagonism I've repeatedly requested the posters in question refrain.

that he could turn around the way he's treated around here.

acting like it's up to me to change how other posters treat me around here is...something.

He's hell bent on being a (the) driving force of discussion on this board on anything and everything political, even though he's way out of his league trying to display his intellectual superiority against these guys. It results in moving goal posts, poorly thought out arguments, and an almost 3 year old continous meltdown.

again, I don't mean to be the driving force of discussion. And I'm not hell bent on it. Sometimes I think a little perspective might be a good thing for pols bored discussions at large, but from my point of view, it's just not worth it if other posters are going to so aggressively reject the perspective. Believe it or not, I've forgone a lot of things I'd otherwise like to discuss, just cuz I know the discussion is going to go nowhere.

and, I just gotta say it: I think the biggest goal post movement on this here bored, is trying to discredit about absolutely everything on the basis of the Putin parrot bullshit.

He doesn't have to tailor his posting to anyone's liking. He's free to post however he wants.

please reconcile this with your previous comment about how I could turn around how other posters treat me.

But he'd be happier here if he changed....

sure?

I'd also be happier if other posters weren't so relentlessly putting me down about pretty much everything, but I suppose I can't change how other posters treat me.

Or can I?

Should I be free to post however I want, or should it be up to me to tailor to everyone else?

and for 3 days he avoided certain topics and everyone picked on Mich instead.

does there really have to be a poster everyone picks on? Buncha internet tough guys up in here.

And, as for the picking - I hope B2L won't mind me sharing a bit of our real life interactions, but I can't tell you how many times he's messaged me like, "yea everybody picks on mich cuz mich is a doofus, but holy shit ous, how'd you end up with so many other posters so shamelessly attacking you as a person"

And when he did post things (fish pics and some other things), several of us (me and Shirley come to mind) said nice things to him and tried to improve the harmony around here with him.

My worthless 2 cents.

yea, I've noticed. And I appreciate it. Thanks for being pleasant about pleasant things to post about besides pols bored bickering! Here's to harmony!

Know the sad part, tho?

I think it's pretty evident that so many posters would rather NOT enjoy all the other pleasant things to post about, and would rather carry a petty pols grudge against me to all the other boreds too - even despite my avoiding controversial pols topics on other boreds, and trying to stick to pleasantries and relevant discussions.

Not only that, but I've had posters who remain active to this day, who have burned bridges with me in real life.

And it's fucking tragic!

Now, if I was being annoying about pols bored shit to other posters in real life too, I wouldn't blame them. But, that's not the case, at all. It's more things like, deleting my number as a response to me sharing things like...fish pics.

After years of one another enjoying the sharing of things precisely like fish pics, at that!

again, it's a god damn tragedy.

[ousdahl]

Oh boy. Please don't. Let's just all do better tomorrow. Myself included.

actually, I'd be pleased to hear your reaction to my previous post. Feel free to reply to all, or even just part, of it.

[TDub]

have you tried going outside? talking to real life people? (no, your fake bumble bullshits don't count).

Maybe start there, turn off your electronics and see how it goes?

[ousdahl]

I just spent the evening at music in the park

Dead Phish Orchestra, actually.

It was quite pleasant!

[DeletedUser]

if he'd just stop trying so hard to score gotchas or both sides it up or ESPECIALLY trying to dominate convos way above his pay grade

1)
I don't try to dominate convos tbh. And I concede, much really is above my pay grade. But, come on, I can't even express frustration about dems conceding to pubs on immigration issues without being antagonized as a Russian spam bot, again, even tho that's precisely the the sort of antagonism I've repeatedly requested the posters in question refrain.

that he could turn around the way he's treated around here.

2)
acting like it's up to me to change how other posters treat me around here is...something.

He's hell bent on being a (the) driving force of discussion on this board on anything and everything political, even though he's way out of his league trying to display his intellectual superiority against these guys. It results in moving goal posts, poorly thought out arguments, and an almost 3 year old continous meltdown.

3)
again, I don't mean to be the driving force of discussion. And I'm not hell bent on it. Sometimes I think a little perspective might be a good thing for pols bored discussions at large, but from my point of view, it's just not worth it if other posters are going to so aggressively reject the perspective. Believe it or not, I've forgone a lot of things I'd otherwise like to discuss, just cuz I know the discussion is going to go nowhere.

and, I just gotta say it: I think the biggest goal post movement on this here bored, is trying to discredit about absolutely everything on the basis of the Putin parrot bullshit.

He doesn't have to tailor his posting to anyone's liking. He's free to post however he wants.

4)
please reconcile this with your previous comment about how I could turn around how other posters treat me.

But he'd be happier here if he changed....

5)
sure?

I'd also be happier if other posters weren't so relentlessly putting me down about pretty much everything, but I suppose I can't change how other posters treat me.

Or can I?

Should I be free to post however I want, or should it be up to me to tailor to everyone else?

and for 3 days he avoided certain topics and everyone picked on Mich instead.

6)
does there really have to be a poster everyone picks on? Buncha internet tough guys up in here.

And, as for the picking - I hope B2L won't mind me sharing a bit of our real life interactions, but I can't tell you how many times he's messaged me like, "yea everybody picks on mich cuz mich is a doofus, but holy shit ous, how'd you end up with so many other posters so shamelessly attacking you as a person"

And when he did post things (fish pics and some other things), several of us (me and Shirley come to mind) said nice things to him and tried to improve the harmony around here with him.

My worthless 2 cents.

7)
yea, I've noticed. And I appreciate it. Thanks for being pleasant about pleasant things to post about besides pols bored bickering! Here's to harmony!

Know the sad part, tho?

I think it's pretty evident that so many posters would rather NOT enjoy all the other pleasant things to post about, and would rather carry a petty pols grudge against me to all the other boreds too - even despite my avoiding controversial pols topics on other boreds, and trying to stick to pleasantries and relevant discussions.

Not only that, but I've had posters who remain active to this day, who have burned bridges with me in real life.

And it's fucking tragic!

Now, if I was being annoying about pols bored shit to other posters in real life too, I wouldn't blame them. But, that's not the case, at all. It's more things like, deleting my number as a response to me sharing things like...fish pics.

After years of one another enjoying the sharing of things precisely like fish pics, at that!

again, it's a god damn tragedy.

Since you asked I'll respond.....

1. Expressing frustration with dems is risky business around here, especially when the only other option (for the big chair as Mich call it) is Trump. Proceed with caution....and you're just going to have to live with the Putin Parrot stuff, just like I had/have to live with being called a t-shirt fan/Calipari fan occasionally. It'll get better over time (if behavior is adjusted).

2. I know it seems weird, but I speak from experience. I changed my behavior and now almost everyone tolerates me.

3. Trying to be the provider of perspective is risky business around here. Again, proceed with caution. Pick your spots carefully. For instance, if I tried to be the provider of perspective on golf related issues, I think they'd hold some weight. Other issues, not so much.

4. I simply mean you're absolutely free to post whatever/however you want...but so are others. And the end result of the current path is what you've been experiencing for the last 2+ years. I think if you change then over time everyone else will also change. I coexist here daily with people who rightfully hated me several years ago. But not because they changed. Because I changed.

5. See above answer. It covers this one too.

6. No, there doesn't need to be...but in reality, there probably will be (someone or someones who are picked on). I'm glad B2L is your boy, I used to get similar messages back in the day as well, from a few of the people who I always got along with. But, there is a reason they were private messages and not made so everyone else could counter them.

7. It sucks that has happened. Bridges can be rebuilt though.



Ok...I need to get my day started (yes it's early here). I've got a good 3 hours of work to do on the laptop, and a 1.5 hour drive to go through an office/warehouse in some rural town ahead of me this morning....so I can be back in town for a 1pm tee time with the boys.


Remember like Smokey The Bear always used to say "only you can prevent forest fires"...or in this case messagboard adversaries. Good luck out there today.

[KUTradition]

back to non-childish things…

https://newrepublic.com/article/184507/ ... ation-data

[jfish26]

"Facts getting 10% worse? I'll scream 10% louder and lie 10% more!"