OFFICIAL DEBATE DRINKING THREAD

[KUTradition]

this obsession over hong kong is hilarious

you all need better hobbies

[twocoach]

Walz tried using Giggles' word salad/obfuscation/"I'm from a middle-class family" approach. It fell flat and made him look desperate. Giggles apparently has either a little more practice at it, has no conscience, or some combination of the two.

He did what every other politician who doesn't want to admit a negative does in such a situation. He chose instead to talk about what he wanted to talk about, which is what you hail Trump as being a genius for.

Talking about what you want to talk about as a means of making sure your message is conveyed is different than talking about what you want to talk about as a means of trying to cover up your ridiculous lies.

But you already knew that.

The difference being that when pressed on it, Walz told the truth and said he misspoke. I won't hold my breath waiting for Trump to admit such a thing.

[pdub]

Talking about what you want to talk about as a means of making sure your message is conveyed is different than talking about what you want to talk about as a means of trying to cover up your ridiculous lies.

But you already knew that.

oh the irony

[twocoach]

this obsession over hong kong is hilarious

you all need better hobbies

Honestly, I consider it a badge of honor on Walz as a VP pick that they have to go back to 1989 to find a lie for them to hang their hat on. Both Trump and Vance have told lies just this week that are bad enough that they would have been disqualifiers for any other candidate prior to the arrival of MAGA.

[pdub]

OK but what is worse?
Walz generally avoiding the question regarding a lie that he was at some place 30 years ago a month or so different than the time he actually was OR
Vance generally avoiding the question asking if Trump lost the 2020 election?

Come on randy and psych, you can get this question right, just really use all the juice in that brain of yours.

There are legitimate questions and there are WokeGotcha questions. The former require an answer; the latter get the response they deserve.

Why is trying to get someone ( someone who is a candidate to be VP ) to admit that Trump lost the 2020 election a WokeGotcha question?
It seems to me it is an extremely important question tied to our Democracy.

[KUTradition]

this obsession over hong kong is hilarious

you all need better hobbies

Honestly, I consider it a badge of honor on Walz as a VP pick that they have to go back to 1989 to find a lie for them to hang their hat on. Both Trump and Vance have told lies just this week that are bad enough that they would have been disqualifiers for any other candidate prior to the arrival of MAGA.

it’s more double standard nonsense

and, it truly saddens me that so much of this country seemingly goes right along with it

[KUTradition]

OK but what is worse?
Walz generally avoiding the question regarding a lie that he was at some place 30 years ago a month or so different than the time he actually was OR
Vance generally avoiding the question asking if Trump lost the 2020 election?

Come on randy and psych, you can get this question right, just really use all the juice in that brain of yours.

There are legitimate questions and there are WokeGotcha questions. The former require an answer; the latter get the response they deserve.

Why is trying to get someone to admit that Trump lost the 2020 election a WokeGotcha question?
It seems to me it is an extremely important question tied to our Democracy.

good luck

[twocoach]

Lets stop you right there, nobody is saying that

And it's a common haitian practice, for both food and religion. There is proof haitian immigrants have done it when immigrating elsewhere, there is proof they have caught and killed geese from the park. Could just be a matter of time. The residents claim it's happening, so you can't really just dismiss it as a lie. Unsubstantiated rumor is fair, at this point.

But again... in no way is that supporting or stoking violence against them.

In the contrary, a reoccurring theme we see, in this country and others, is illegal immigrants committing crimes and violence against citizens

The reoccurring theme of white American gun owners murdering children hasn't been enough of a motivator to change things so why should we be concerned about this besides that it is a few brown people committing the crimes vs. a few white people?

[pdub]

There are legitimate questions and there are WokeGotcha questions. The former require an answer; the latter get the response they deserve.

Why is trying to get someone to admit that Trump lost the 2020 election a WokeGotcha question?
It seems to me it is an extremely important question tied to our Democracy.

good luck

Well, yea, nonsensical unproven flailing about how the election was actually stolen and that you can't trust news sources will eventually be the response.

[twocoach]

OK but what is worse?
Walz generally avoiding the question regarding a lie that he was at some place 30 years ago a month or so different than the time he actually was OR
Vance generally avoiding the question asking if Trump lost the 2020 election?

Come on randy and psych, you can get this question right, just really use all the juice in that brain of yours.

There are legitimate questions and there are WokeGotcha questions. The former require an answer; the latter get the response they deserve.

That's so weak and corny. Come on. It is FAR more important that people running for the office of President and Vice President of the United States respect the results of the election for that exact same position than it is for someone to have an accurate detailing of their travel itinerary down to the month in 1989 for things done that have nothing to do with the job they are running for now.

The stupid shit you spew on a daily basis is really quite incredible. You're now using "woke" to just mean "anything that makes a Republican look bad".

[jfish26]

And it's a common haitian practice, for both food and religion. There is proof haitian immigrants have done it when immigrating elsewhere, there is proof they have caught and killed geese from the park. Could just be a matter of time. The residents claim it's happening, so you can't really just dismiss it as a lie. Unsubstantiated rumor is fair, at this point.

But again... in no way is that supporting or stoking violence against them.

In the contrary, a reoccurring theme we see, in this country and others, is illegal immigrants committing crimes and violence against citizens

The reoccurring theme of white American gun owners murdering children hasn't been enough of a motivator to change things so why should we be concerned about this besides that it is a few brown people committing the crimes vs. a few white people?

There isn't a single problem in our society that these people can't find a way to pin on brown people.

[jfish26]

It's literally called "temporary protected status"

That's much different than "legal immigrant"

It is.

But not for the purposes for which you're drawing a distinction.

You are more or less saying out loud that it's ok to demonize and villainize those with TPS. That it's ok to lie about them, and stoke violence against them, and ruin American cities in support of those lies and that violence.

Lets stop you right there, nobody is saying that. They are attacking the politicians that support dumping large populations of immigrants in American cities, which clearly is problematic

For example, it does not matter what you say, this is what you support:

For Jamie McGregor, a businessman in Springfield, Ohio, speaking favorably about the Haitian immigrants he employs has come to this: death threats, a lockdown at his company and posters around town branding him a traitor for hiring immigrants. To defend himself and his family, Mr. McGregor has had to violate his own vow to never own a gun. “I have struggled with the fact that now we’re going to have firearms in our house—like, what the hell?” said Mr. McGregor, who runs McGregor Metal, which makes parts for cars, trucks and tractors. “And now we’re taking classes, we’re going to shooting ranges, we’re being fitted for handguns,” he said on a recent day, pulling up a photo of his 14-year-old daughter clutching a Glock.

[...]

Mr. McGregor, who had publicly praised his new employees for their hard work and willingness to learn, became a target. A flood of threats was directed not only at him, but his family and his business. They came by the hundreds—phone calls, emails and letters from white supremacists, neo-Nazis and other people they had never met. “The owner of McGregor Metal can take a bullet to the skull and that would be 100 percent justified,” said one message left on the company voice mail. “Why are you importing Third World savages who eat animals and giving them jobs over United States citizens?” another asked.

[...]

F.B.I. agents showed up at McGregor Metal out of the blue on Sept. 12. They warned him that they had determined that some of the threats on social media were credible and that he must take precautions. They advised locking the lobby doors at McGregor Metal along with other safety protocols. Security experts also sat the family down. Vary your driving routes to work, school and other places, they advised. Don gloves and use tongs when handling and opening mail. Keep the blinds drawn at your house. The family was also advised to scrub their digital footprints, install cameras, motion sensors and alarms, and start parking rear-first in the garage, keeping the car in drive until the door is all the way down.

[McGregor] said he had always supported people’s right to own firearms. But “I’m not a gun person,” he said, breathing deeply. “I do not like guns. I never liked guns.”

He felt heartbroken when he had to pull his daughter out of school for shooting lessons. “It was a complete loss of innocence,” he said. As the family tried to adjust to their new reality, ominous posters of Mr. McGregor popped up near his plants, outside a grocery store and on poles. They featured quotes from Mr. McGregor praising his immigrant workers, and the word “traitor” scrawled on his forehead in red capital letters.

https://www.nytimes.com/2024/09/30/us/s ... =url-share

To be perfectly clear: McGregor and his family are having to take life-changing REAL-LIFE protective measures because of threats from white people who are themselves responding to grossly over-dramatized (and in some cases fictionalized!) PERCEIVED threats from brown people.

[JKLivin]

He did what every other politician who doesn't want to admit a negative does in such a situation. He chose instead to talk about what he wanted to talk about, which is what you hail Trump as being a genius for.

Talking about what you want to talk about as a means of making sure your message is conveyed is different than talking about what you want to talk about as a means of trying to cover up your ridiculous lies.

But you already knew that.

The difference being that when pressed on it, Walz told the truth and said he misspoke. I won't hold my breath waiting for Trump to admit such a thing.

I think we agree on that point. Trump is a narcissist, and they never admit that they were wrong.

[JKLivin]

Talking about what you want to talk about as a means of making sure your message is conveyed is different than talking about what you want to talk about as a means of trying to cover up your ridiculous lies.

But you already knew that.

oh the irony

I've said many times that I neither admire nor consider Trump to be a good person. I can't/won't defend him. Given the choices we have, however, I will continue to be adamant that he is the best choice.

Not sure what's ironic about that, but carry on.

[Sparko]

Good post, Psych. We need to reduce the danger of a raging narcissist by denying him power and authority.

[JKLivin]

OK but what is worse?
Walz generally avoiding the question regarding a lie that he was at some place 30 years ago a month or so different than the time he actually was OR
Vance generally avoiding the question asking if Trump lost the 2020 election?

Come on randy and psych, you can get this question right, just really use all the juice in that brain of yours.

There are legitimate questions and there are WokeGotcha questions. The former require an answer; the latter get the response they deserve.

Why is trying to get someone ( someone who is a candidate to be VP ) to admit that Trump lost the 2020 election a WokeGotcha question?
It seems to me it is an extremely important question tied to our Democracy.

Because it is a thinly-veiled ploy to shift the focus to that issue - one that is emotionally-charged and volatile - and away from the subject matter at hand. They know Tampon Tim can't win on substance, so they're going to get people riled up about the 2020 election.

[JKLivin]

Good post, Psych. We need to reduce the danger of a raging narcissist by denying him power and authority.

Not when the narcissist in question is the only fit candidate who is running. I refuse to accept the premise that we elect an unqualified dimwit neo-socialist just because the other candidate is an a-hole.

[JKLivin]

OK but what is worse?
Walz generally avoiding the question regarding a lie that he was at some place 30 years ago a month or so different than the time he actually was OR
Vance generally avoiding the question asking if Trump lost the 2020 election?

Come on randy and psych, you can get this question right, just really use all the juice in that brain of yours.

There are legitimate questions and there are WokeGotcha questions. The former require an answer; the latter get the response they deserve.

That's so weak and corny. Come on. It is FAR more important that people running for the office of President and Vice President of the United States respect the results of the election for that exact same position than it is for someone to have an accurate detailing of their travel itinerary down to the month in 1989 for things done that have nothing to do with the job they are running for now.

The stupid shit you spew on a daily basis is really quite incredible. You're now using "woke" to just mean "anything that makes a Republican look bad".

My answer is in a response to PDub. And, no, I would define "woke" as any attempt to put hurt feelings and threatened ideology before the good of the country.

[Shirley]

This was the moment when vance fact checked the moderators in front of the whole country, and vance was right. Those immigrants did not go through the process of becoming "legal", but rather a temporary legal status with a asterisk by it. And the people should know that part of the equation.

It exposed how biased the media is and was an embarrassment for them, which is why they silenced his mic

Your tolerance for and willingness to eat Vance's obfuscation with a spoon should be beneath you, and you deserve better from your cult leaders.

[pdub]

There are legitimate questions and there are WokeGotcha questions. The former require an answer; the latter get the response they deserve.

Why is trying to get someone ( someone who is a candidate to be VP ) to admit that Trump lost the 2020 election a WokeGotcha question?
It seems to me it is an extremely important question tied to our Democracy.

Because it is a thinly-veiled ploy to shift the focus to that issue - one that is emotionally-charged and volatile - and away from the subject matter at hand. They know Tampon Tim can't win on substance, so they're going to get people riled up about the 2020 election.

Did you watch the debate?
Walz talked plenty of substance. He addressed the questions directly. He provided examples.
( also your nickname for him just demeans you even more )

And the focus SHOULD be on that issue! Certainly enough for a 5 minute segment!

It's how our election process works - it's the core process of choosing our leader.
If I was interviewing a candidate to be a cartographer and I asked him if the world was flat and he wouldn't answer, well, we have an issue. Acknowledging the world being spherical isn't THE single most important thing of being a cartographer but it's pretty damn important.