OFFICIAL DEBATE DRINKING THREAD

[KUTradition]

Our science hasn’t even come close to the level to explaining existence. We haven’t even explored the majority of our own planet. We’ve made it to a rock floating around our orbit.

Having faith, to a degree, isn’t in the same realm as something so very tangible as counting votes for a candidate in a single country for a particular election.

I exist because my Dad had sex with my Mom on a certain day at a certain time in a certain location. If the date, time, location or individuals involved were different then there would be someone else here trying to explain why they're here. It is vain of me to think that my existence is anything more than a product of those things. Only humans are so vain that they feel the need to create some greater meaning to their existence other than the simple act of it being the consequence of sexual intercourse.

^^^^^

sadly, wars are fought, countries invaded, lives lost, and people are demonized because far too many hold an opposing, selfish view

you aren’t special…just a lucky product of circumstance

[randylahey]

We live in a time where people within our government are actively trying to censor and hide facts that inconvenience them. We've seen it time and time again, where they try to dismiss something as a "conspiracy" and then it later is proven to be true. There's a long list of things in the past 5 years that went through this process.

I get nobody wants to he duped or bullshitted, but we should all be able to agree that it comes from both sides, and it sucks we can't actually count on government officials to tell us the real truth on anything.

Funnily enough, the term "conspiracy theorist" was actually coined back in the 60s by our government, as a way of destroying credibility of citizens that were speaking out against their shady tactics and behaviors

[jfish26]

Our science hasn’t even come close to the level to explaining existence. We haven’t even explored the majority of our own planet. We’ve made it to a rock floating around our orbit.

Having faith, to a degree, isn’t in the same realm as something so very tangible as counting votes for a candidate in a single country for a particular election.

Yeah - what I'm responding to is our apparent hard-wired attraction to believe in, or even favor, intangible things.

I don't know the direction/strength of the causality, or whether it's an unresolvable chicken-and-egg situation, but there is clearly a strong correlation in America between (for example) evangelical Christian faith and rejection of objective reality (as regarding, say, the 2020 election).

[twocoach]

We live in a time where people within our government are actively trying to censor and hide facts that inconvenience them. We've seen it time and time again, where they try to dismiss something as a "conspiracy" and then it later is proven to be true. There's a long list of things in the past 5 years that went through this process.

I get nobody wants to he duped or bullshitted, but we should all be able to agree that it comes from both sides, and it sucks we can't actually count on government officials to tell us the real truth on anything.

Funnily enough, the term "conspiracy theorist" was actually coined back in the 60s by our government, as a way of destroying credibility of citizens that were speaking out against their shady tactics and behaviors

"While much of the literature points to the twentieth-century philosopher Karl Popper and his famous work The Open Society and Its Enemies (1st edition: 1945), newspaper databases allow us to locate earlier occurrences of “conspiracy theory.” They reveal that the term proliferates in newspapers from the 1870s onward, particularly after the assassination of President Garfield in July 1881."

https://academic.oup.com/book/25369/cha ... m=fulltext

"CLAIM: The terms “conspiracy theory” and “conspiracy theorist” were created by the Central Intelligence Agency following the assassination of President John F. Kennedy as a way of discrediting people who doubted the government’s official reports.

AP’S ASSESSMENT: False. Recorded use of the phrase “conspiracy theory” dates back to at least 1863, and it was notably invoked in reports following the 1881 shooting of then-President James A. Garfield, more than 60 years before the CIA was established. An academic review of the digital library JSTOR found the term “conspiracy theorist” had been published at least in the year before Kennedy’s death.

THE FACTS: Following the National Archives’ release last month of an additional 12,879 documents related to Kennedy’s death, interest in longstanding myths about the president’s 1963 shooting has resurged on social media. Among these myths is what some scholars have called a “meta-conspiracy theory” — the belief that the CIA, as part of an unproven coverup, coined the term “conspiracy theory” to discredit people who accused the CIA of orchestrating Kennedy’s killing."

https://apnews.com/article/fact-check-c ... 1578119864

You've been duped again by your MAGA sources. But cool story.

[japhy]

Funnily enough, the term "conspiracy theorist" was actually coined back in the 60s by our government, as a way of destroying credibility of citizens that were speaking out against their shady tactics and behaviors

The more you post, the more funnily it gets.

[twocoach]

Funnily enough, the term "conspiracy theorist" was actually coined back in the 60s by our government, as a way of destroying credibility of citizens that were speaking out against their shady tactics and behaviors

The more you post, the more funnily it gets.

I always think he will start fact checking himself before he makes such claims after being slapped in the face with reality so many times but then I remember that he doesn't give a shit and is just here to troll.

[japhy]

Funnily enough, the term "conspiracy theorist" was actually coined back in the 60s by our government, as a way of destroying credibility of citizens that were speaking out against their shady tactics and behaviors

The more you post, the more funnily it gets.

I always think he will start fact checking himself before he makes such claims after being slapped in the face with reality so many times but then I remember that he doesn't give a shit and is just here to troll.

I think he might actually believe his adopted, firmly held hand and believed bullshit. It's what defines the "real rubes".

HE HAS BEEN RIGHT ABOUT EVERYTHING!

No idea what would eventually make them snap out of it. But the experiment continues! And we have a ready willing lab rat.

[randylahey]

So it may have been used a bit before for the exact same reasons. Lol. Before the Cia latched on and it became a prominent phrase used again for the same reason. That reinforces the point, not discredits it

[japhy]

So it may have been used a bit before for the exact same reasons. Lol. Before the Cia latched on and it became a prominent phrase used again for the same reason. That reinforces the point, not discredits it

So the fact that one part of a story you have embraced as an article of faith is shown to you to be a lie, does not make you examine the rest of the story to wonder if includes other lies.

Very interesting, wait I am taking notes for a book I am writing on the suspension of disbelief.

You are fascinating!

[jfish26]

So it may have been used a bit before for the exact same reasons. Lol. Before the Cia latched on and it became a prominent phrase used again for the same reason. That reinforces the point, not discredits it

So the fact that one part of a story you have embraced as an article of faith is shown to you to be a lie, does not make you examine the rest of the story to wonder if includes other lies.

Very interesting, wait I am taking notes for a book I am writing on the suspension of disbelief.

You are fascinating!

And, just to swing us back to the topic here, this is why Trump's business fraud judgments should matter so much. They mean he never, ever WAS the shrewd businessman that was essential to his pitch as a candidate.

To use a phrase popular among the rubes, this was obvious to anyone who was paying attention. But there are those that weren't. And it really should MATTER that this foundational element of his appeal was never, ever real. He is not a "successful businessman," because he is neither successful nor a businessman, at least (in either case) in any legitimate sense.

He is a conman.

It's fucking vaporware, the same as his healthcare plans, the same as infrastructure week, the same as SO MANY OTHER THINGS about this phony piece of shit.

And yet.

[twocoach]

So it may have been used a bit before for the exact same reasons. Lol. Before the Cia latched on and it became a prominent phrase used again for the same reason. That reinforces the point, not discredits it

So the fact that one part of a story you have embraced as an article of faith is shown to you to be a lie, does not make you examine the rest of the story to wonder if includes other lies.

Very interesting, wait I am taking notes for a book I am writing on the suspension of disbelief.

You are fascinating!

And, just to swing us back to the topic here, this is why Trump's business fraud judgments should matter so much. They mean he never, ever WAS the shrewd businessman that was essential to his pitch as a candidate.

To use a phrase popular among the rubes, this was obvious to anyone who was paying attention. But there are those that weren't. And it really should MATTER that this foundational element of his appeal was never, ever real. He is not a "successful businessman," because he is neither successful nor a businessman, at least (in either case) in any legitimate sense.

He is a conman.

It's fucking vaporware, the same as his healthcare plans, the same as infrastructure week, the same as SO MANY OTHER THINGS about this phony piece of shit.

And yet.

Yes to all of this.

Yet here we sit while Donald Trump starts a GoFundMe page for hurricane relief that is not tied to a charity (probably because Trump is banned from running a charity due to having defrauded one already) and is organized by a member of his campaign staff. Anyone want to take bets on whether Hurricane Helene victims ever see a single penny of the $3+ million that has been raised so far?

[jfish26]

So the fact that one part of a story you have embraced as an article of faith is shown to you to be a lie, does not make you examine the rest of the story to wonder if includes other lies.

Very interesting, wait I am taking notes for a book I am writing on the suspension of disbelief.

You are fascinating!

And, just to swing us back to the topic here, this is why Trump's business fraud judgments should matter so much. They mean he never, ever WAS the shrewd businessman that was essential to his pitch as a candidate.

To use a phrase popular among the rubes, this was obvious to anyone who was paying attention. But there are those that weren't. And it really should MATTER that this foundational element of his appeal was never, ever real. He is not a "successful businessman," because he is neither successful nor a businessman, at least (in either case) in any legitimate sense.

He is a conman.

It's fucking vaporware, the same as his healthcare plans, the same as infrastructure week, the same as SO MANY OTHER THINGS about this phony piece of shit.

And yet.

Yes to all of this.

Yet here we sit while Donald Trump starts a GoFundMe page for hurricane relief that is not tied to a charity (probably because Trump is banned from running a charity due to having defrauded one already) and is organized by a member of his campaign staff. Anyone want to take bets on whether Hurricane Helene victims ever see a single penny of the $3+ million that has been raised so far?

But meanwhile, the rubes split hairs on whether or not Harris' job duties including making Big Macs, or whether Gwen Walz conceived by IVF or other fertility treatments, and so on.

Those things are leaves on trees. Trump's rot is in the roots and trunk.

[pdub]

Our science hasn’t even come close to the level to explaining existence. We haven’t even explored the majority of our own planet. We’ve made it to a rock floating around our orbit.

Having faith, to a degree, isn’t in the same realm as something so very tangible as counting votes for a candidate in a single country for a particular election.

Yeah - what I'm responding to is our apparent hard-wired attraction to believe in, or even favor, intangible things.

I don't know the direction/strength of the causality, or whether it's an unresolvable chicken-and-egg situation, but there is clearly a strong correlation in America between (for example) evangelical Christian faith and rejection of objective reality (as regarding, say, the 2020 election).

No doubt there is correlation there.
I think there is a distinction in faith and believing that the Bible ( or other works ) should continue to be interpreted as instructions word for word.

I am saying that believing in God/a higher power does not preclude someone from believing in facts.

Miss me with the “yes it does” ( not you JFish ).

[twocoach]

Our science hasn’t even come close to the level to explaining existence. We haven’t even explored the majority of our own planet. We’ve made it to a rock floating around our orbit.

Having faith, to a degree, isn’t in the same realm as something so very tangible as counting votes for a candidate in a single country for a particular election.

Yeah - what I'm responding to is our apparent hard-wired attraction to believe in, or even favor, intangible things.

I don't know the direction/strength of the causality, or whether it's an unresolvable chicken-and-egg situation, but there is clearly a strong correlation in America between (for example) evangelical Christian faith and rejection of objective reality (as regarding, say, the 2020 election).

No doubt there is correlation there.
I think there is a distinction in faith and believing that the Bible ( or other works ) should continue to be interpreted as instructions word for word.

I am saying that believing in God/a higher power does not preclude someone from believing in facts.

Miss me with the “yes it does” ( not you JFish ).

I agree with you on that. The line isn't "believer or sane person". But there's a point out on the believer side of the line where that line splits from reality. People well beyond that split are the one's who I feel are dangerously out of touch with reality and who seem to be the most insistent that everyone else be where they are on the line.

[jfish26]

Our science hasn’t even come close to the level to explaining existence. We haven’t even explored the majority of our own planet. We’ve made it to a rock floating around our orbit.

Having faith, to a degree, isn’t in the same realm as something so very tangible as counting votes for a candidate in a single country for a particular election.

Yeah - what I'm responding to is our apparent hard-wired attraction to believe in, or even favor, intangible things.

I don't know the direction/strength of the causality, or whether it's an unresolvable chicken-and-egg situation, but there is clearly a strong correlation in America between (for example) evangelical Christian faith and rejection of objective reality (as regarding, say, the 2020 election).

No doubt there is correlation there.
I think there is a distinction in faith and believing that the Bible ( or other works ) should continue to be interpreted as instructions word for word.

I am saying that believing in God/a higher power does not preclude someone from believing in facts.

Miss me with the “yes it does” ( not you JFish ).

Believing in God/a higher power does not preclude someone from believing in facts.

Nor does believing in God/a higher power entitle one to deny facts (to the extent, anyway, that that denial affects other people).

[pdub]

Yeah - what I'm responding to is our apparent hard-wired attraction to believe in, or even favor, intangible things.

I don't know the direction/strength of the causality, or whether it's an unresolvable chicken-and-egg situation, but there is clearly a strong correlation in America between (for example) evangelical Christian faith and rejection of objective reality (as regarding, say, the 2020 election).

No doubt there is correlation there.
I think there is a distinction in faith and believing that the Bible ( or other works ) should continue to be interpreted as instructions word for word.

I am saying that believing in God/a higher power does not preclude someone from believing in facts.

Miss me with the “yes it does” ( not you JFish ).

Believing in God/a higher power does not preclude someone from believing in facts.

Nor does believing in God/a higher power entitle one to deny facts (to the extent, anyway, that that denial affects other people).

Well put.

[Sparko]

And there is a difference in a conspiracy theory based on Ms Surratt's boarding house and evidence free MAGA weather engine conspiracy theories. JFK jr.s Dallas reemergence should have taught Randy that.