Indigenous People's Day

[JKLivin]

When you deport the last immigrant, who do you hate next? Asking for Aaron Rodgers

I assume that Trad and Overlander would still be around in your hypothetical. I'm guessing Aaron would find them as repellant as do I.

You joke, but your candidate in fact does openly talk about wielding the military against domestic political enemies.

And so you will understand why someone might ask: are you saying that once the brown people are cleared out, we should focus the power of the federal government against those who would speak out against Trump II?

It's not about "brown people"; that's a globalist canard designed to shout down dissent to their vision of a borderless socialist utopia. It's about people who are not here legally, are not paying their fair share, and are dragging down the quality of life in our country.

[JKLivin]

what disingenuous, xenophobic fucks, intentionally or otherwise, fail to recognize is that the relationships and agreements being made now between the U.S. and Central American countries will also (and vastly more importantly) stem the flow of the coming waves of climate refugees

Using euphemisms like "climate refugees" to replace "illegal aliens" or "people who break our laws and place a drain on our economy" doesn't change the fundamental existential threat to our country. You also assume that the leaders of these other counties will have any motivation to do anything to stem the flow and not just pocket the cash. I would argue that is a wrong-headed assumption.

Hence the use of the word "coming" as in "they haven't come yet. Prior to coming, they have done nothing to define them as being "illegal" at this point.

By virtue of crossing our border in direct contravention of our immigration laws they have, by definition, become "illegal."

[JKLivin]

Keep in mind the overall plan here.

We are going to solve a problem that is - to describe this in the most charitable sense - grossly exaggerated for political purposes, by taking immigration and economic policy measures that cannot do anything EXCEPT cause consumer prices to skyrocket and balloon the national debt.

I had the misfortune of spending an academic year in Laredo, TX as a visiting professor in the Texas A&M system in 2022. Traffic was a nightmare. There was an unbelievable housing shortage. There were power outages left and right. It was, to summarize, the worst place I have ever lived in my life. My wife and I (half) jokingly dubbed our moving process "Operation Escape Laredo."

It wasn't difficult to surmise the cause of these problems. Laredo and its sister city in Mexico, Nuevo Laredo, are on either side of the border. Laredo officially has a population of 250,000. Its infrastructure is built for that, but in reality, there were as many as four times that number of people living in the city, driving the streets, using the water and electric, and living in the apartments and houses at any given time, as many of the official residents of Nuevo Laredo were actually living in the United States, not paying taxes, but using our resources. That doesn't take into account the numbers sneaking across the border and squatting temporarily in Laredo until they moved North.

This is NOT an exaggerated problem. Extrapolate that across the entire southern border right now and imagine what it will look like as that situation continues to spread North, and you have an enormous problem everywhere.

Yes, you have told this story many times. Each time it no doubt gets different/worse.

Go live there, then. It's a paradise. You'll love it.

[twocoach]

Using euphemisms like "climate refugees" to replace "illegal aliens" or "people who break our laws and place a drain on our economy" doesn't change the fundamental existential threat to our country. You also assume that the leaders of these other counties will have any motivation to do anything to stem the flow and not just pocket the cash. I would argue that is a wrong-headed assumption.

Hence the use of the word "coming" as in "they haven't come yet. Prior to coming, they have done nothing to define them as being "illegal" at this point.

By virtue of crossing our border in direct contravention of our immigration laws they have, by definition, become "illegal."

Nothing in Trad's post said anything about them crossing the border at all, let alone illegally. He just said that there will be future waves of immigrants fleeing climate driven disasters in their native lands so it would be wise of us to invest in and have a working relationship with the countries between them and us so that we can stem that flow or even prevent it. As in WHAT YOU WANT. But that takes time, work, and money, hence that the investment in it that would have been made in the border bill would not be a "waste of money" as you called it.

So much for that open mind you claim to have. Just blindly shouting down things without even attempting to read or use your brain.

[Sparko]

No it is not existential like climate collapse. It is a Republican frame they started working out decades ago. It is nativism and bigotry. There is no policy other than othering. What next? Tarriffs, camps and walls. The problem of immigration starts by ameliorating conditions south of us. Like Trump said though, he doesn't want to end the problem, just use it. They amp up the human rights abuses until they are forced to stop. Just cynical manipulation. So shaddup.

[twocoach]

I had the misfortune of spending an academic year in Laredo, TX as a visiting professor in the Texas A&M system in 2022. Traffic was a nightmare. There was an unbelievable housing shortage. There were power outages left and right. It was, to summarize, the worst place I have ever lived in my life. My wife and I (half) jokingly dubbed our moving process "Operation Escape Laredo."

It wasn't difficult to surmise the cause of these problems. Laredo and its sister city in Mexico, Nuevo Laredo, are on either side of the border. Laredo officially has a population of 250,000. Its infrastructure is built for that, but in reality, there were as many as four times that number of people living in the city, driving the streets, using the water and electric, and living in the apartments and houses at any given time, as many of the official residents of Nuevo Laredo were actually living in the United States, not paying taxes, but using our resources. That doesn't take into account the numbers sneaking across the border and squatting temporarily in Laredo until they moved North.

This is NOT an exaggerated problem. Extrapolate that across the entire southern border right now and imagine what it will look like as that situation continues to spread North, and you have an enormous problem everywhere.

Yes, you have told this story many times. Each time it no doubt gets different/worse.

Go live there, then. It's a paradise. You'll love it.

Yeah, I will pass on living anywhere in Texas under their psychotic state laws. Hard pass.

[jfish26]

Do you think it would look good for the USA to create a machine gun wall to murder anyone who tried to come into our country illegally?

What would the repercussions be with our neighbors directly to the South? And the rest of our continent? And then the entire civilized world?

lol.
Fucking machine gun walls.
Insane.

Keep in mind the overall plan here.

We are going to solve a problem that is - to describe this in the most charitable sense - grossly exaggerated for political purposes, by taking immigration and economic policy measures that cannot do anything EXCEPT cause consumer prices to skyrocket and balloon the national debt.

I had the misfortune of spending an academic year in Laredo, TX as a visiting professor in the Texas A&M system in 2022. Traffic was a nightmare. There was an unbelievable housing shortage. There were power outages left and right. It was, to summarize, the worst place I have ever lived in my life. My wife and I (half) jokingly dubbed our moving process "Operation Escape Laredo."

It wasn't difficult to surmise the cause of these problems. Laredo and its sister city in Mexico, Nuevo Laredo, are on either side of the border. Laredo officially has a population of 250,000. Its infrastructure is built for that, but in reality, there were as many as four times that number of people living in the city, driving the streets, using the water and electric, and living in the apartments and houses at any given time, as many of the official residents of Nuevo Laredo were actually living in the United States, not paying taxes, but using our resources. That doesn't take into account the numbers sneaking across the border and squatting temporarily in Laredo until they moved North.

This is NOT an exaggerated problem. Extrapolate that across the entire southern border right now and imagine what it will look like as that situation continues to spread North, and you have an enormous problem everywhere.

Come on, man.

You cannot, in the same breath, say that, "This is NOT an exaggerated problem," and then - to support your view of the problem! - ask people to, "Extrapolate [what happened in a medium-sized border city in Texas] across the entire [ed. note: 2,000 mile] southern border right now."

Using problems unique to one sort of situation, and asking people to extrapolate those problems across ALL situations, is the definition of exaggerating the problems.

[jfish26]

I assume that Trad and Overlander would still be around in your hypothetical. I'm guessing Aaron would find them as repellant as do I.

You joke, but your candidate in fact does openly talk about wielding the military against domestic political enemies.

And so you will understand why someone might ask: are you saying that once the brown people are cleared out, we should focus the power of the federal government against those who would speak out against Trump II?

It's not about "brown people"; that's a globalist canard designed to shout down dissent to their vision of a borderless socialist utopia. It's about people who are not here legally, are not paying their fair share, and are dragging down the quality of life in our country.

This is a dodge of the question that was asked.

Which, I'll restate: are you saying that once the foreign people you don't like are cleared out, we should focus the power of the federal government against Americans who would speak out against Trump II?

[JKLivin]

You joke, but your candidate in fact does openly talk about wielding the military against domestic political enemies.

And so you will understand why someone might ask: are you saying that once the brown people are cleared out, we should focus the power of the federal government against those who would speak out against Trump II?

It's not about "brown people"; that's a globalist canard designed to shout down dissent to their vision of a borderless socialist utopia. It's about people who are not here legally, are not paying their fair share, and are dragging down the quality of life in our country.

This is a dodge of the question that was asked.

Which, I'll restate: are you saying that once the foreign people you don't like are cleared out, we should focus the power of the federal government against Americans who would speak out against Trump II?

No. I would not advocate that, once Hillary is locked up.

[JKLivin]

Keep in mind the overall plan here.

We are going to solve a problem that is - to describe this in the most charitable sense - grossly exaggerated for political purposes, by taking immigration and economic policy measures that cannot do anything EXCEPT cause consumer prices to skyrocket and balloon the national debt.

I had the misfortune of spending an academic year in Laredo, TX as a visiting professor in the Texas A&M system in 2022. Traffic was a nightmare. There was an unbelievable housing shortage. There were power outages left and right. It was, to summarize, the worst place I have ever lived in my life. My wife and I (half) jokingly dubbed our moving process "Operation Escape Laredo."

It wasn't difficult to surmise the cause of these problems. Laredo and its sister city in Mexico, Nuevo Laredo, are on either side of the border. Laredo officially has a population of 250,000. Its infrastructure is built for that, but in reality, there were as many as four times that number of people living in the city, driving the streets, using the water and electric, and living in the apartments and houses at any given time, as many of the official residents of Nuevo Laredo were actually living in the United States, not paying taxes, but using our resources. That doesn't take into account the numbers sneaking across the border and squatting temporarily in Laredo until they moved North.

This is NOT an exaggerated problem. Extrapolate that across the entire southern border right now and imagine what it will look like as that situation continues to spread North, and you have an enormous problem everywhere.

Come on, man.

You cannot, in the same breath, say that, "This is NOT an exaggerated problem," and then - to support your view of the problem! - ask people to, "Extrapolate [what happened in a medium-sized border city in Texas] across the entire [ed. note: 2,000 mile] southern border right now."

Using problems unique to one sort of situation, and asking people to extrapolate those problems across ALL situations, is the definition of exaggerating the problems.

Ask the people of Aurora, CO if it stayed along the border or if it is exaggerated.

[JKLivin]

No it is not existential like climate collapse. It is a Republican frame they started working out decades ago. It is nativism and bigotry. There is no policy other than othering. What next? Tarriffs, camps and walls. The problem of immigration starts by ameliorating conditions south of us. Like Trump said though, he doesn't want to end the problem, just use it. They amp up the human rights abuses until they are forced to stop. Just cynical manipulation. So shaddup.

I am not responsible for the conditions of the countries South of us. That is globalist dreck. You shaddup.

[jfish26]

I had the misfortune of spending an academic year in Laredo, TX as a visiting professor in the Texas A&M system in 2022. Traffic was a nightmare. There was an unbelievable housing shortage. There were power outages left and right. It was, to summarize, the worst place I have ever lived in my life. My wife and I (half) jokingly dubbed our moving process "Operation Escape Laredo."

It wasn't difficult to surmise the cause of these problems. Laredo and its sister city in Mexico, Nuevo Laredo, are on either side of the border. Laredo officially has a population of 250,000. Its infrastructure is built for that, but in reality, there were as many as four times that number of people living in the city, driving the streets, using the water and electric, and living in the apartments and houses at any given time, as many of the official residents of Nuevo Laredo were actually living in the United States, not paying taxes, but using our resources. That doesn't take into account the numbers sneaking across the border and squatting temporarily in Laredo until they moved North.

This is NOT an exaggerated problem. Extrapolate that across the entire southern border right now and imagine what it will look like as that situation continues to spread North, and you have an enormous problem everywhere.

Come on, man.

You cannot, in the same breath, say that, "This is NOT an exaggerated problem," and then - to support your view of the problem! - ask people to, "Extrapolate [what happened in a medium-sized border city in Texas] across the entire [ed. note: 2,000 mile] southern border right now."

Using problems unique to one sort of situation, and asking people to extrapolate those problems across ALL situations, is the definition of exaggerating the problems.

Ask the people of Aurora, CO if it stayed along the border or if it is exaggerated.

Jesus.

The Republican mayor of Aurora said last week, as you know, that, "The reality is that the concerns about Venezuelan gang activity in our city-and our state-have been grossly exaggerated and have unfairly hurt the city's identity and sense of safety."

[JKLivin]

Come on, man.

You cannot, in the same breath, say that, "This is NOT an exaggerated problem," and then - to support your view of the problem! - ask people to, "Extrapolate [what happened in a medium-sized border city in Texas] across the entire [ed. note: 2,000 mile] southern border right now."

Using problems unique to one sort of situation, and asking people to extrapolate those problems across ALL situations, is the definition of exaggerating the problems.

Ask the people of Aurora, CO if it stayed along the border or if it is exaggerated.

Jesus.

The Republican mayor of Aurora said last week, as you know, that, "The reality is that the concerns about Venezuelan gang activity in our city-and our state-have been grossly exaggerated and have unfairly hurt the city's identity and sense of safety."

So what you're saying is that there is an acceptable number of apartment complexes in the United States taken over by Venezuelan gangs. What is that number? Two? Four? Six? Have you asked the residents of those complexes how they feel about it? Have you asked residents of that part of Aurora how they feel about it? I'm guessing they don't see it as "grossly exaggerated," and I doubt you would be okay with it happening in your neck of the woods, either.

[jfish26]

As a traditional conservative for most of my life, I sure as hell believe that the elected mayor of Aurora knows more about Aurora, and its needs and governance, than you or I or Stephen Miller do.

[JKLivin]

As a traditional conservative for most of my life, I sure as hell believe that the elected mayor of Aurora knows more about Aurora, and its needs and governance, than you or I or Stephen Miller do.

You are dodging the question. How many complexes are acceptable? At what point does it become a problem in your mind?

[digitalkookie]

So what you're saying is that there is an acceptable number of apartment complexes in the United States taken over by Venezuelan gangs. What is that number? Two? Four? Six? Have you asked the residents of those complexes how they feel about it?

Literally from the mouth of JD Vance to your fingers.

[twocoach]

Ask the people of Aurora, CO if it stayed along the border or if it is exaggerated.

Jesus.

The Republican mayor of Aurora said last week, as you know, that, "The reality is that the concerns about Venezuelan gang activity in our city-and our state-have been grossly exaggerated and have unfairly hurt the city's identity and sense of safety."

So what you're saying is that there is an acceptable number of apartment complexes in the United States taken over by Venezuelan gangs. What is that number? Two? Four? Six? Have you asked the residents of those complexes how they feel about it? Have you asked residents of that part of Aurora how they feel about it? I'm guessing they don't see it as "grossly exaggerated," and I doubt you would be okay with it happening in your neck of the woods, either.

Well, we're at zero now so I guess we'll have to wait to see what that number is if it ever happens. When you use an exaggerated situation to support your claim that this is not an exaggerated problem, you instantly lose the argument.

And if it does happen in my neck of the woods, I trust law enforcement and their overkill volume of military equipment to deal with the problem since that's what they swore they needed it for.

[jfish26]

As a traditional conservative for most of my life, I sure as hell believe that the elected mayor of Aurora knows more about Aurora, and its needs and governance, than you or I or Stephen Miller do.

You are dodging the question. How many complexes are acceptable? At what point does it become a problem in your mind?

I did not bring Aurora up for any purpose, including as an example of my personal opinions about what is and is not "acceptable."

You brought Aurora up, as support for your claim that migration (as you describe it) "is NOT an exaggerated problem."

It is, then, highly inconvenient for you that the Republican mayor of Aurora (who, I cannot believe I need to say this, but: was elected by the people of Aurora less than one year ago!) describes MAGA messaging on Aurora (which you follow) to be "grossly exaggerated."

Not living in Aurora, I have no opinion about whether or not I would find something particular to Aurora "acceptable." That is not because I support "a borderless socialist utopia," but it is because my opinion would be highly dependent on, you know, how life is there. I can express an opinion on how life is in my town (which, like most towns, has pockets of most things), because I know how life is in my town.

But, back to the point: you are having a very hard time suggesting that your views here are NOT an exaggeration, where the (elected, Republican) mayor of one of two cities you offer as examples has said, within the last week, that MAGA concerns are "grossly exaggerated."

[JKLivin]

As a traditional conservative for most of my life, I sure as hell believe that the elected mayor of Aurora knows more about Aurora, and its needs and governance, than you or I or Stephen Miller do.

You are dodging the question. How many complexes are acceptable? At what point does it become a problem in your mind?

I did not bring Aurora up for any purpose, including as an example of my personal opinions about what is and is not "acceptable."

You brought Aurora up, as support for your claim that migration (as you describe it) "is NOT an exaggerated problem."

It is, then, highly inconvenient for you that the Republican mayor of Aurora (who, I cannot believe I need to say this, but: was elected by the people of Aurora less than one year ago!) describes MAGA messaging on Aurora (which you follow) to be "grossly exaggerated."

Not living in Aurora, I have no opinion about whether or not I would find something particular to Aurora "acceptable." That is not because I support "a borderless socialist utopia," but it is because my opinion would be highly dependent on, you know, how life is there. I can express an opinion on how life is in my town (which, like most towns, has pockets of most things), because I know how life is in my town.

But, back to the point: you are having a very hard time suggesting that your views here are NOT an exaggeration, where the (elected, Republican) mayor of one of two cities you offer as examples has said, within the last week, that MAGA concerns are "grossly exaggerated."

He says "grossly exaggerated," but is careful NOT to say "nonexistent." I would argue that one man's "grossly exaggerated" is another's "unacceptable."

[JKLivin]

So what you're saying is that there is an acceptable number of apartment complexes in the United States taken over by Venezuelan gangs. What is that number? Two? Four? Six? Have you asked the residents of those complexes how they feel about it?

Literally from the mouth of JD Vance to your fingers.

And?