2024/2025 Lineup

[BiggDick]

I mean, yea I guess by lead I mean PG.

And yea, I agree that McDowell is not one - at least based on what we've seen so far.

so dunno what/who exactly Fish is getting at.

and while some fans surely do consider "low ceiling" to be because a player doesn't score a bunch of points, I think there's more to it than that.

[randylahey]

Dajuan should be surrounded by enough talent this year to stick to his game, which he's elite at. There isn't a better more experienced defender and pass first pg in college

[BiggDick]

“Elite if surrounded by enough talent” seems like some sorta oxymoron or something.

[DeletedUser]

“Elite if surrounded by enough talent” seems like some sorta oxymoron or something.

No it doesn't. John Stockton wasn't a score first PG. Was he low ceiling?

Rajob Rondo is another that comes to mind.


But we've done all this before.

[mjl2]

My concern about redshirting Jamari is similar but different.

I don't like redshirting him because he defends and rebounds (for his position) well, and those are two areas of concern, as we saw when McCullar went down last year.

However, if he's the answer to those, it means Storr and Griffen aren't doing those things, which is a bigger problem.

[BiggDick]

I’ve brought in a special and prominent guest writer on the condition of anonymity. College Basketball ‘Writer X’ has covered college hoops for most of this century. He also has takes.

By Writer X

That Kansas ended up No. 1 in the preseason AP poll speaks to two things: The respect Bill Self commands as the current dean of college coaches (even after Dan Hurley matched him in NCAA titles).

Also, the lack of imagination and general group think from voters.

I don’t want to be too contrarian, but I think there’s a lot of reasons to be skeptical of Kansas as the best team in the country. Let’s go through them:

— Has DaJuan Harris improved across the last two seasons? He’ll be 24 in December but he’s still never shown the ability to dominate younger competition through sheer physicality or experience. Until shown otherwise, I tend to think he is what he is.

— Where’s the NBA talent? Almost every NCAA champion has at least one or two first-round picks in the middle of the action, including the 2021-22 Kansas team. (Somewhere Jeff Goodman is still convincing himself of his own narrative that that Kansas team didn’t have the “usual” Bill Self talent.)

— I saw The Athletic’s Sam Vecenie recently released a mock draft. It included zero Kansas players in the first round and just one in the second — AJ Storr at No. 58. We can disagree about one person’s opinion.

But which player on this KU team is in the NBA in five years? Flory Bidunga? Rakease Passmore? The latter is probably not even in the rotation this year.

Scoopmeister’s note: I’m really bullish on both Bidunga and Passmore, though ‘Writer X’ isn’t wrong. Passmore is gonna have to fight for minutes.

— Speaking of AJ Storr, Bill Self has already started an interesting messaging campaign with him. Storr is a bucket getter, which is sorely needed. Kansas was terrible at the end of the shot clock last year. But I think he’s going to drive Self crazy because he won’t defend or rebound like he wants. Self will need to work his magic with him.

— To me, the biggest keys are Zeke Mayo and Rylan Griffen. They have to fill it up from three. And Mayo has to play like a borderline pro. It's a big jump in competition for him. I don't want to say he can't. But I'll wait for some evidence first. Otherwise, I just don’t see how KU is all that much different than last year.

— Hunter Dickinson is what he is. He’ll give you 20 and give up 10. I love KJ Adams. I’d love to see KJ on a team where the point guard isn't also close to a zero on offense. But with Storr and Griffen in the picture, I’d love to see Adams get some time at the 5 with Harris, Mayo, Storr and Griffen on the wing.

— Kansas should be vastly improved. But they also were pretty bad last year, all things considered. I know the injuries didn't help. But ... it's a lot on the portal guys because the returners all have flaws that aren't going away.

— Their depth is much better. All the portal guys are intriguing in their own way. I have no idea what to think about Bidunga? How many minutes does he get with Hunter and KJ in front of him? How ready is he to contribute?

Maybe there’s not a better alternative for preseason No. 1. But KenPom has at least five other options.

Join here for more content like this delivered straight to your inbox for free every week: https://www.kuhearings.com/subscribe

[BiggDick]

I think I figured out my gripe with Dajuan, in a nice concise one-sentence response sorta way:


He just doesn't play aggressive enough.

[DeletedUser]

I think I figured out my gripe with Dajuan, in a nice concise one-sentence response sorta way:


He just doesn't play aggressive enough.

Ok. So can the prosecution finally rest?



Me thinks you're confusing aggression and looking to score offensively. It's simply not possible to accumulate the number of his assists he has tallied without being aggressive.

And he's absolutely aggressive on defense.

Self loves him for a reason.


You don't love him because you want your "lead guard" to be your primary scorer. It doesn't have to be the PG.

Jrue Holiday is a pass first PG. When plays break down their team looks to get the ball to Tatum and Brown.

Mike Conley is a pass first PG. When plays break down their team looks to get the ball to Anthony Edwards.

That's 50% of the NBA teams that played last night having pass first PGs. Now, I am not comparing DH to those players specifically skill set wise. I am simply pointing out that an offense doesn't need a PG that is score first.


Also, and my god I can't believe I am spending this much time on this before preparing for my day of golf....

but Dajuan Harris has scored:

15pts (or more) 8 times at KU
12pts (or more) 27 times at KU
10pts (or more) 40 times at KU

His career high is 23pts.



You'd hate the list of "aggressive" players who don't have a career high of 23pts at KU if I bothered to take the time to compile it.

[BiggDick]

honestly, I almost added something about how I meant aggressiveness as more than just scoring.

(but since you brought it up...that 15+ margin 8 times, in 140 total games, yikes!)

cuz, no, actually - it's not that I don't love Dajuan, nor that I don't love Dajuan cuz I want the "lead guard" to be the primary scorer.

It's that I just think he doesn't play aggressive enough, in a comprehensive sense.

For me, at least, it would make all the other holes in his game a lot easier to live with.

[randylahey]

“Elite if surrounded by enough talent” seems like some sorta oxymoron or something.

Means he's elite at playing a role. But not a star point guard who's gonna dismantle a defense with his quickness

But he is an elite defender, and elite at setting people up. And he's turned himself into a pretty good shooter

[randylahey]

I’ve brought in a special and prominent guest writer on the condition of anonymity. College Basketball ‘Writer X’ has covered college hoops for most of this century. He also has takes.

By Writer X

That Kansas ended up No. 1 in the preseason AP poll speaks to two things: The respect Bill Self commands as the current dean of college coaches (even after Dan Hurley matched him in NCAA titles).

Also, the lack of imagination and general group think from voters.

I don’t want to be too contrarian, but I think there’s a lot of reasons to be skeptical of Kansas as the best team in the country. Let’s go through them:

— Has DaJuan Harris improved across the last two seasons? He’ll be 24 in December but he’s still never shown the ability to dominate younger competition through sheer physicality or experience. Until shown otherwise, I tend to think he is what he is.

— Where’s the NBA talent? Almost every NCAA champion has at least one or two first-round picks in the middle of the action, including the 2021-22 Kansas team. (Somewhere Jeff Goodman is still convincing himself of his own narrative that that Kansas team didn’t have the “usual” Bill Self talent.)

— I saw The Athletic’s Sam Vecenie recently released a mock draft. It included zero Kansas players in the first round and just one in the second — AJ Storr at No. 58. We can disagree about one person’s opinion.

But which player on this KU team is in the NBA in five years? Flory Bidunga? Rakease Passmore? The latter is probably not even in the rotation this year.

Scoopmeister’s note: I’m really bullish on both Bidunga and Passmore, though ‘Writer X’ isn’t wrong. Passmore is gonna have to fight for minutes.

— Speaking of AJ Storr, Bill Self has already started an interesting messaging campaign with him. Storr is a bucket getter, which is sorely needed. Kansas was terrible at the end of the shot clock last year. But I think he’s going to drive Self crazy because he won’t defend or rebound like he wants. Self will need to work his magic with him.

— To me, the biggest keys are Zeke Mayo and Rylan Griffen. They have to fill it up from three. And Mayo has to play like a borderline pro. It's a big jump in competition for him. I don't want to say he can't. But I'll wait for some evidence first. Otherwise, I just don’t see how KU is all that much different than last year.

— Hunter Dickinson is what he is. He’ll give you 20 and give up 10. I love KJ Adams. I’d love to see KJ on a team where the point guard isn't also close to a zero on offense. But with Storr and Griffen in the picture, I’d love to see Adams get some time at the 5 with Harris, Mayo, Storr and Griffen on the wing.

— Kansas should be vastly improved. But they also were pretty bad last year, all things considered. I know the injuries didn't help. But ... it's a lot on the portal guys because the returners all have flaws that aren't going away.

— Their depth is much better. All the portal guys are intriguing in their own way. I have no idea what to think about Bidunga? How many minutes does he get with Hunter and KJ in front of him? How ready is he to contribute?

Maybe there’s not a better alternative for preseason No. 1. But KenPom has at least five other options.

Join here for more content like this delivered straight to your inbox for free every week: https://www.kuhearings.com/subscribe

The writer's concern here or still pretty valid.

Dajuan, Kj, and hunter are a strange trio, because they all 3 have dramatic strengths and weaknesses. On paper, it seems like our roster should much better compliment/cover the holes in their games tho

[pdub]

The season hasn't even started and i'm already sick of Mike Vernon.

"SUBSCRIBE NOW FOR MY SECRET INSIDE HEARINGS"
Ugh.

[randylahey]

Pass first pgs are a dying breed. Conley and jrue holiday might both be great facilitators and play that style well, and it impacts winning at a high level. But both are absolutely talented enough to be scoring point guards too

Holiday and Conley both might have been the top point guard in their recruiting class. They both possess elite athletic ability and we're high ranked 5 star Mcdonald all American top recruits. In a pinch, they could beat their man and create something. Dajuan just doesn't really have the tools for that. He relies on the offense and screens to create

[KUTradition]

i couldn’t care less how many nba prospects are on this team (or any other KU team)

teams full of such talent have flamed out (both during the season and in the first couple weekends of the tourney)

[DeletedUser]

It's that I just think he doesn't play aggressive enough, in a comprehensive sense.

Nice and vague. Care to elaborate?

Also, 40 times in double figures in 140 games. That's 29% of the time he is scoring 10pts.

That's pretty good.

[DeletedUser]

i couldn’t care less how many nba prospects are on this team (or any other KU team)

teams full of such talent have flamed out (both during the season and in the first couple weekends of the tourney)

Exactly. This isn't the early 2000s.

How many guys from UConn the last 2 years are starting or rotation players in the NBA this year? None that come to mind.

[pdub]

Pass first pgs are a dying breed.

Hi, my name is Braden Smith and I just led my team to the National Championship, and i'm a pass first point guard.

( yes, I am a pass first point guard, please don't bring up butbutbut 12 PPG as your rebuttal )

[DeletedUser]

Pass first pgs are a dying breed. Conley and jrue holiday might both be great facilitators and play that style well, and it impacts winning at a high level. But both are absolutely talented enough to be scoring point guards too

Holiday and Conley both might have been the top point guard in their recruiting class. They both possess elite athletic ability and we're high ranked 5 star Mcdonald all American top recruits. In a pinch, they could beat their man and create something. Dajuan just doesn't really have the tools for that. He relies on the offense and screens to create

Agree 100%, but the point wasn't that he is similar to those players in ability. It was simply that those are 50% of the teams in the NBA conference finals, and 100% of the NBA champions from last year and neither offense requires the PG to take the shots when "they play breaks down" like Ousdahl has repeatedly complained about when it comes to DH skill set.

[BiggDick]

Who?

[BiggDick]

I suppose it IS worth mentioning "neither offense requires the PG to take the shots when the play breaks down." But, man would it be nice to have it as an option.