Baseball

[pdub]

Directly related to this is the demise ( imo ) of college basketball.
Since this site started JFish was a staunch supporter of NIL, paying players with contracts etc.
Now college basketball is closer to MLB ( no caps! ) than the NFL and it's making it so much worse of a sport.

[jfish26]

Imagine, in addition to our fantastic coach and future HOF QB, in 2021 we didn't really have to worry about the injuries because we also were able to sign, as either starters or backups:

Derrick Henry, Amari Cooper, Jack Conklin and Brandon Schreff on offense.
Shaq Barrett ( sorry Tampa we have 3 times the budget as you - you're not chasing Mahomes in this one - he'll be chasing Brady ), Matt Judon, Justin Simmons and Kyle Van Noy on defense.

Seem fair?

If the league rules are that the 31 other multibillionaire owners are free to compete against the Chiefs in bidding for these players...then yes, that would seem like fair behavior?

I guess then you believe tax law is fair.
In fact, there should be a flat tax.

Just because you are ultra-wealthy does not mean that you will give back to the community.

The owners with larger revenues due to their market can spend more ( and do! ) because they can operate with less chance at loss.

It seems like you are treating billionaires like they need to be protected from competition (instead of being accountable for their choices).

No one made them buy teams. No one is making them hold teams. An owner who does not want to spend the money it takes to compete (at any given level or frequency), does not have to. But that is a choice, and there would be a line of suitors up and down the block who would gladly take any team off any owner's hands.

As I've said, I would support lots and lots and lots of ways to ensure that lower-revenue teams are rewarded competitively (and financially!) for competitive behavior.

What I don't support is a system that SOUNDS fair, but in reality (1) serves to funnel even more money up to the owners than they're getting already, and (2) seems unlikely to actually achieve the stated purposes.

There is a reason that the owners would accept a floor-and-cap system tomorrow, and the players would not.

[pdub]

2. Whatever. It works wonderfully in the NFL.

The owners share revenue equally and agree to spend very close to the certain amount. They also give the players a fair % of revenue ( always in negotiation ).

And while yes, these are uber uber wealthy billionaire owners here, let's not pretend that these major league players are struggling financially.

The central point here is not to get MLB players paid the most that they can.
It's to have a league where each team has equal footing financially to then mitigate 'unearned' advantages.

[jfish26]

2. Whatever. It works wonderfully in the NFL.

The owners share revenue equally and agree to spend very close to the certain amount. They also give the players a fair % of revenue ( always in negotiation ).

And while yes, these are uber uber wealthy billionaire owners here, let's not pretend that these major league players are struggling financially.

The central point here is not to get MLB players paid the most that they can.
It's to have a league where each team has equal footing financially to then mitigate 'unearned' advantages.

I still think there are not a lot of lessons baseball can really learn from the NFL on this - I think the structural difference between a local revenue model and a national revenue model, for example, is much greater than you're giving it credit for.

I think you are also making overly optimistic assumptions about what would happen in places like Kansas City, Cincinnati, Milwaukee, Pittsburgh and St. Louis were you to flatten player salaries by going to a floor-and-cap system. For as much as you want to say that clubs like these are harmed by an uncapped system, at least an uncapped system lets clubs pay a premium to induce players to choose less desirable markets.

I have not once said that the central point - or even a point - is to get players paid the most that they can.

I just don't think that rewarding owners for choosing not to spend is the right way to improve the health of the sport.

[pdub]

"I think you are also making overly optimistic assumptions about what would happen in places like Kansas City, Cincinnati, Milwaukee, Pittsburgh and St. Louis were you to flatten player salaries by going to a floor-and-cap system... at least an uncapped system lets clubs pay a premium to induce players to choose less desirable markets."

The Kansas City Chiefs have induced plenty of talent to play for a less desirable market.

[jfish26]

"I think you are also making overly optimistic assumptions about what would happen in places like Kansas City, Cincinnati, Milwaukee, Pittsburgh and St. Louis were you to flatten player salaries by going to a floor-and-cap system... at least an uncapped system lets clubs pay a premium to induce players to choose less desirable markets."

The Kansas City Chiefs have induced plenty of talent to play for a less desirable market.

The NFL is structurally different, in ways that make it a tough comparison. Things like the revenue mix for clubs, the off-field earning potential of players, the wider gaps and wilder fluctuations in W/L, and even the gravity of quarterbacks.

I think the NBA is a better comparison, but still challenging in how different roster construction and player development works.

Ultimately, as weird as it is to say about a sport with such massive revenue and spending disparities, baseball just really does not have - comparatively speaking - a big parity problem. That's evidenced by the mixed results you'll get when trying to find well-researched analyses of competitive balance across American pro sports.

And so yeah, I'm meh on funneling more money to owners in order to (probably not) solve a problem that, in comparison with other sports anyway, doesn't seem to be particularly outlying.

[pdub]

Last 15 World Series winners not top 10 payroll:

21 Braves, 17 Astros, 15 Royals, 11 Cardinals ( juuuust barely - 11th highest )

4 out of 15 - then throw in Dodgers/Yankees this year - that'll be 4 out of 16.

[jfish26]

Last 15 World Series winners not top 10 payroll:

21 Braves, 17 Astros, 15 Royals, 11 Cardinals ( juuuust barely - 11th highest )

4 out of 15 - then throw in Dodgers/Yankees this year - that'll be 4 out of 16.

All Super Bowls this millennium, 10/23 won by two quarterbacks. All NBA championships this millennium, 10/24 won by two teams.

No two combined MLB teams - regardless of who wins next week - will have >7 of the last 23.

I just don't think that there is a credible, results-based case to be made that baseball is outlying for a lack of parity.

(I also don't think - and I truly don't know who this would hurt or help here - that championships are the best measure of parity. I think it's probably postseason participation.)

[pdub]

The Celtics and the Chiefs built these teams ( I would prefer a harder cap in the NBA than the luxury tax option but at least the other teams are getting some money -- i'd argue that money should then however minimally force the floor cap to raise - i.e. you have to spend your luxury tax money on the roster ).

The Chiefs didn't buy championships. They didn't have a significant competitive advantage over anyone.

You put your 8 year old kid in a science fair.
He spends the week before building a wind turbine out of a plastic bottle and straws - never asks for your help - he kind of is a genius.
The next day Braeden Kenword ( fucking Kenwords ) comes in with a clearly pre-bought steam engine kit ( that you find out the next day cost over 500 dollars ). It's super cool.
He wins the science fair going away.
Just like he won last year with his pre-bought kit.

Compare this to your kid winning 3 years in a row with a strict max budget of 50 dollars because, well, your kid is actually creative and good at crafting/presenting at the science fair. Sure, other parents might be tired that your kid keeps winning but the playing field is even so they can't be upset.

You can be upset at Braeden Kenword.

[Sparko]

I hate Braeden Kenword. Asshole. Born on 3B. Plays a Selmer Balanced Action tenor he got as a child. Drives a Lexus convertible. Saw his girlfriend pick him up at the airport last night. Flew back from the World Series.

[twocoach]

Game 1 has been very entertaining. A lot of really good players out there. The best teams money can buy, I suppose. So crazy.

What stinks is that this World Series will be amazing and MLB will see zero reason to do something about these outrageous payroll discrepancies.

Baseball porn. You feel dirty watching it but damn, it's so pretty.

[RainbowsandUnicorns]

twocoach - Just to be a contrarian..... MLB has done something about the outrageous payroll discrepancies. Any team/any owner is free to pay as much or as little as they choose for their payroll. I say blame the playa, not the game.
Your last "stanza" was pretty spot on. Game 1 was "epic". Freddie Freeman with the walk off grand slam at home. Yep, pretty much what MLB would have scripted if they could have.
I wouldn't be at all surprised if someone somewhere predicted it would happen on social media, and people are now going to share that, and say the game was fixed.
Like I said a few days ago, MLB is a business. If they are putting out their best product/s, on the world stage, at the biggest/brightest moment/s, and people are "buying" it, and it produces results like we saw last night, reluctantly or not, I have to give a +1 MLB.

[twocoach]

Great game. Stars stepped up repeatedly. A nice mix of great hits, great pitching, great fielding. The clutch ending. Very fun. My Dodgers fan coworker is going to be thrilled. And fuck the Yankees.

[twocoach]

A fan ripped the ball out of the glove of a player. Never seen that before.

[RainbowsandUnicorns]

A fan ripped the ball out of the glove of a player. Never seen that before.

Complete douche bags as they were being escorted out - too.

Told a co-worker yesterday that I should bet the Yankees come back and win the series. I'm guessing the odds weren't as good as they would typically be.
If the Dodgers won game 4 that would have been the most disappointing World Series in a long time.
On another note, Fred Freeman with 4 HR and 10 RBI in 4 games. If I am not mistaken, he had 0 HR and 1 rbi in all his previous playoff games this season.
Watch the dude hit .200 and win the series MVP.

[Shirley]

Man, the Yankees sure peed down their leg defensively to give away that 5 run lead.

[jhawks99]

4 straight balls to load the bases wit no outs.

[Back2Lawrence]

Yay, it’s over! Didn’t feel compelled to watch 1 inning of the World Series! ~5 months until I care about baseball again.

[pdub]

Didn’t watch any of it.
Woof on how the Yankees lost.

[twocoach]

Man, the Yankees sure peed down their leg defensively to give away that 5 run lead.

And again in the eight to lose. Nice to see the Yankees have to spend the entire offseason answering questions about how they shit their pants on the biggest stage. That makes me happy.

Hopefully someone who is more dialed in to baseball can keep up a "Baseball Offseason 2025" thread. Hopefully the Royals can make some moves to shore up their team and improve on what they built this season and not regress as a flash in the pan.