2024/2025 Lineup

[BiggDick]

Coit and Moore are both 1 year deals, so figure they got brought here to play...especially considering they were both signed post-Elmarko's injury. Even if they're small, you kinda figure their experience will prob get them the edge over guys like Jamari and Rakease. Mayo's a 1 year deal too.

Is there precedent for a 1 year senior coming here but not playing much? JCL? I think that as much as anything is a testament to Och/CB/Jalen's development tho too.

Considering he's billed as a non-shooting, non-scoring PG, I kinda hope we don't see Shak and Juan on the floor at the same time much. But now that I say it, that sounds like exactly the kinda thing Self will try to pull at times. (remember when he'd try to play like, Juan, Marcus Garrett, and Bryce Thompson? woof)

Ya Storr needs to drive, but ya we gotta figure how how he can drive with so much traffic in the paint.

I kinda do hope we might be able to use KJ at the 5 some. Pretty sure that's his more natural position, even if undersized. And that would help with the whole spacing/his man otherwise sagging off him thing. It's largely matchup dependent tho, and also largely a matter of how ready we can get Flory, and how well Hunter might have developed as far as guarding faster lineups.

Yea Clemence feels like an odd man out, but the season's long, and in his 4th season here maybe he can figure out some way to contribute at some point

[BiggDick]

I realize we have two good options at PG. But, still kinda wonder if we'll ever try to run Diggy as a lone small, in a Remy kind of way, for the sake of a shot-in-the-arm scoring/shooting punch when we need it.

[DeletedUser]

I realize we have two good options at PG. But, still kinda wonder if we'll ever try to run Diggy as a lone small, in a Remy kind of way, for the sake of a shot-in-the-arm scoring/shooting punch when we need it.

Did you not just share Self's comments where he explained that Coit is a 2 and Shak is a 1?

[BiggDick]

yes, I did just share that.

But, I think it's also been opined Remy's more of a 2 too, which is why he was mentioned as an analogy.

And, while the most ideal thing would be a guard who can both run the point AND shoot, it's a matter of making the most of this group of doods.

Getting that shot-in-the-arm of scoring, particularly from a position you weren't getting it previously in the game, could go a long way toward our scoring droughts and such.

[DeletedUser]

I kinda do hope we might be able to use KJ at the 5 some. Pretty sure that's his more natural position, even if undersized. And that would help with the whole spacing/his man otherwise sagging off him thing.

How quickly we forget.

He's played the 5 in the past and got abused.

So no, it wouldn't help the offense regardless of whether they sag or not (and they'll still sag when he has the ball on the perimeter regardless of what position he is playing)...because he's also not someone who can score down low with his back to the basket, and he's also not someone who can score on size (consistently). He's also not a shot blocker or great rebounder.

Maybe I am misremembering this, but KJ sucks as a 5 imo. Not sure why we'd want KJ at the 5 against good teams. It's a net negative for our team.

[DeletedUser]

yes, I did just share that.

But, I think it's also been opined Remy's more of a 2 too, which is why he was mentioned as an analogy.

And, while the most ideal thing would be a guard who can both run the point AND shoot, it's a matter of making the most of this group of doods.

Getting that shot-in-the-arm of scoring, particularly from a position you weren't getting it previously in the game, could go a long way toward our scoring droughts and such.

Remy played a lot of his minutes, maybe even the majority, WITH Dajuan.

Dajuan 29mpg. Remy 21.1 mpg.

Math is hard. We rarely used Remy the way you are suggesting.

We have HD. Rylan Griffen. Mayo. Storr.

Our gameplan is not going to include having Coit be an iso shot chucker like Frank Mason.

[BiggDick]

did I not just share it's largely matchup dependent tho, and also largely a matter of how ready we can get Flory, and how well Hunter might have developed as far as guarding faster lineups?

yea they'll still sag when he has the ball on the perimeter regardless of what position he's playing, but the thing about what position he's playing is, the 5 tends to spend less time on the perimeter.

and while he's not much for back to the basket, he can still score down low, and on lobs, which he's better at than Hunter, plus dump offs and put backs (tho yea I wish he was a better rebounder too)

[pdub]

Maybe I am misremembering this, but KJ sucks as a 5 imo. Not sure why we'd want KJ at the 5 against good teams. It's a net negative for our team.

You are not.
Why do we think KJ's natural position is the 5 when it's not.
He has trouble guarding taller players once they get to the post. And he doesn't play back to the basket like Self loves to have for his bigs.

I guess vs a team like Washburn, playing KJ at the 5 is just fine.

[BiggDick]

yea, matchup dependent.

if the other team has another player that's NOT both taller and an old school back-to-the-basket post, KJ could work. We started him at the 5 an entire season and still won the league, and were within a bucket of advancing to the second weekend even without our HOF coach.

And while KJ isn't great at back-to-the-basket scoring, he can still catch it in the post and be effective with a quick strong move or pass. He's also good at lobs. And being at the 5 would have him at the perimeter less, where he's even less good.

The other option, I guess, is just play KJ less.

[DeletedUser]

yea they'll still sag when he has the ball on the perimeter regardless of what position he's playing, but the thing about what position he's playing is, the 5 tends to spend less time on the perimeter.

and while he's not much for back to the basket, he can still score down low, and on lobs, which he's better at than Hunter, plus dump offs and put backs (tho yea I wish he was a better rebounder too)

This is why it's hard to talk basketball with you. Your understanding seems limited, your analysis is inaccurate, and your conclusions are unfounded.


KJs scoring inside on lobs comes from being against smaller perimeter players in pick and roll action.

If you remembered, when we tried to do those p&r actions with him at the 5, the center was sagging off the pick/dropping into the lane (because he can't shoot) and then the center being taller and longer than KJ also was cutting off and any chance of a lob.

His scoring inside comes almost exclusively from driving smaller weaker guards to the basket. When he's guarded by length he struggles (historically).

[BiggDick]

so, you're saying, it's matchup dependent?

This is why it's hard to talk basketball with you. You'll omit some critical detail I provide just so you can argue something that's otherwise addressed by that critical detail.

You also often do so in the most unpleasant and condescending tone, tho after years of precedent I realize you simply lack the decency and temperament to help yourself.

[DeletedUser]

At the 4 KJ is a net positive defensively and a net negative offensively.

At the 5 KJ is a net negative on both sides of the ball.

Defensively Bidunga almost certainly is superior to KJ at the 5, even with limited experience.

[BiggDick]

oh, and speaking of understanding seems limited, analysis is inaccurate, and conclusions are unfounded...

what do you guys think of Coach Self saying Diggy is better at pressuring the ball than Juan?

[pdub]

We started him at the 5 an entire season and still won the league, and were within a bucket of advancing to the second weekend even without our HOF coach.

For sure, he played at the 5 because we kinda had no choice ( but also because Self wouldn't play Udeh enough ). It wasn't great at that spot - don't know if you recall.

We also had NPOY contender Jalen Wilson, a lotto pick in Gradey Dick, and a 2024 AA candidate ( who got injured in 2024 ).

We also had one of the worst combined defensive/offensive rebounding rates under Bill Self. And then we got out rebounded by Arkansas.

[BiggDick]

yea.

It's kinda crazy that Dajuan has never not started without at least one AA and at least 2 draft picks to play with.

but yea, one of those draft picks ended last season hurt.

[DeletedUser]

so, you're saying, it's matchup dependent?

Ya okay man, KJ can play 5 against Washburn, Howard, Brown, Furman...maybe UNCW or Oakland.....but that's it on our schedule.

We could also do any fucking thing we want lineup wise against those schools and call it "matchup dependent". But spending the next 3 pages doing so would be a massive waste of fucking time.

We play teams like Duke, Michigan State, UNC, Creighton, and the entire big "12". KJ is not going to be a net positive for us at the 5 against them. Because we also don't have a backup 4.

[pdub]

Bill Self last night.

"Thing about this with KJ, it doesn't matter who is out there, he can guard whoever, you can play big or small against us, and KJ is capable of guarding 1-4 no matter what the situation is."

1 through 4.

[DeletedUser]

We started him at the 5 an entire season and still won the league, and were within a bucket of advancing to the second weekend even without our HOF coach.

For sure, he played at the 5 because we kinda had no choice ( but also because Self wouldn't play Udeh enough ). It wasn't great at that spot - don't know if you recall.

We also had NPOY contender Jalen Wilson, a lotto pick in Gradey Dick, and a 2024 AA candidate ( who got injured in 2024 ).

We also had one of the worst combined defensive/offensive rebounding rates under Bill Self. And then we got out rebounded by Arkansas.

I'd bet $100 Self wishes he'd have stuck with Udeh more at the 5 that year knowing what we know now and seeing how the roster has transformed.

We may not have HD though. Or we might have HD and a capable backup in Udeh. Instead of Bidunga KJ or Clemence for the 8-10 mpg HD is out.

[DeletedUser]

oh, and speaking of understanding seems limited, analysis is inaccurate, and conclusions are unfounded...

what do you guys think of Coach Self saying Diggy is better at pressuring the ball than Juan?

I think that was his way of saying DH is overrated at defense and it's only a matter of time before he turns the team over to David Coit so that he can be our lead guard. And shot chuck. At 5'8.

[pdub]

so, you're saying, it's matchup dependent?

...maybe UNCW

UNCW has a 7 foot 280 lb starter who grew up in Hoxie Kansas so probably not.