America Failed

[BiggDick]

just generally, I think one takeaway from this election is that Kamala's move to appeal more to moderate republicans than to her own progressive base was um...not a winning move?

[jfish26]

yea, MAGA is a lot of cut off one's nose to spite one's face. Who cares about material conditions when you can own the libs instead?

And yea, fish, sadly it does seem like most Americans don't actually want to talk about policy at all. I tried to ask PDub but he disregarded it when I said maybe Kamala's bigger issue, even bigger than her platform, was some likability test.

but yea, "to argue over whose reality is real" is the theme of the entire pols bored any more.

Again, I just don't see it as a likability thing. Or a policy thing. Or, ultimately, a partisan thing.

Touching the stove wasn't enough. So now we've got to stick our hand in the pot for a while.

[BiggDick]

wait.

wut?

stick our hand in the pot?

is somebody making chili or something?

cuz I could go for some chili...

[pdub]

Did you want Kamala to list in depth day by day, exactly what she intends to do, and how to do it?
You realize she needs to balance giving too much detail so that someone won't read it ( you ) vs slimming it down so much it says nothing.

Take for instance her first platform:

"Unlike Donald Trump, Vice President Harris and Governor Walz are committed to ensuring no one earning less than $400,000 a year will pay more in taxes. They believe that we need to chart a New Way Forward by both making our tax system fairer and prioritizing investment and innovation. They will ensure the wealthiest Americans and the largest corporations pay their fair share, so we can take action to build up the middle class while reducing the deficit. This includes rolling back Trump’s tax cuts for the wealthiest Americans, enacting a billionaire minimum tax, quadrupling the tax on stock buybacks, and other reforms to ensure the very wealthy are playing by the same rules as the middle class. Under her plan, the tax rate on long-term capital gains for those earning a million dollars a year or more will be 28 percent"

Those are specific things - not feel good bullet points.

yea.

two things which I've already touched on.

1. Why the wait? She's already high up in this administration. Rather than offer as a specific thing for reelection, why not just do it now, or in the last 4 years?

2. Would you say her problem, even more than platform, is likability?

okay, a third: I think Kamala trying to articulate these specific things may still be worth less than Trump just generally stoking some empty "F the man" sorts of sentiments, material reality be damned.

1. She addresses many of the things that she ( the Biden administration ) didn't wait for on that very website. Go give it another read. She was also the Vice President which, dunno if you knew this, doesn't have as much political power as the President. Finally, she was thrust into a position in a break glass in emergency - after the first debate! - so yes, for a bit there I was concerned that she wasn't standing/campaigning for things and being clear - but she eventually did.

2. She certainly isn't likable to white males. ( i mean, hell, I compared her to veggie lasagna ) I think she was put in a bad spot - associated with Biden and the last four years - and did have issues with likability, yes.

[DeletedUser]

And do you have anything to suggest progressive border policies don't/wouldn't have done well with the Hispanic/Latino vote that she needed?

Yes. Exit polling.

I know it's hard to believe because of their skin color, but a lot of minorities (black/Hispanic/latino/etc) have a lot of conservative leaning beliefs. Not all, maybe not even a majority, but Trump gained significant ground with these segments compared to last go round. In large part because of it.

[DeletedUser]

just generally, I think one takeaway from this election is that Kamala's move to appeal more to moderate republicans than to her own progressive base was um...not a winning move?

Is that actually what happened?

What data are you basing this on? Just your personal eye test


Because I don't feel like that's what she did or tried to do.

[pdub]

just generally, I think one takeaway from this election is that Kamala's move to appeal more to moderate republicans than to her own progressive base was um...not a winning move?

Is that actually what happened?

What data are you basing this on? Just your personal eye test


Because I don't feel like that's what she did or tried to do.

She was part of Biden's administration.
She was always going to run a campaign with closely aligned values.
It might be hard to believe but maybe she actually believes in the policies she presented.

If you asked the randy's, psych's of the world, Kamala was the most RADICAL LIBERAL candidate ever to run evar.

[BiggDick]

of course the veep doesn't have as much power at the POTUS.

But, for the sake of optics and campaigns and such, I think she got paired up as the incumbent status quo candidate regardless. Yes, she was a last-minute pinch hitter of a candidate, and didn't exactly reinvent the wheel as far as her platform goes.

Maybe I'm just fatigued this morning, for forgive me, but I dunno what to make of, "she addresses many of the things that she ( the Biden administration ) didn't wait for on that very website." If there's something specific you want to chat about, let's, but otherwise please don't expect me to go on some fishing expedition the loosing candidate's website just cuz.

[pdub]

Maybe I'm just fatigued this morning, for forgive me, but I dunno what to make of, "she addresses many of the things that she ( the Biden administration ) didn't wait for on that very website." If there's something specific you want to chat about, let's, but otherwise please don't expect me to go on some fishing expedition the loosing candidate's website just cuz.

Go read it. I'm not reading it for you.
Find the points where she talks about what her administration has done so far.
There's a decent amount of content specifically where she does that.

https://kamalaharris.com/issues/

[dolomite]

as trump himself said, he loves him some uneducated voters

I.e.deplorables/garbage etc…

[BiggDick]

just generally, I think one takeaway from this election is that Kamala's move to appeal more to moderate republicans than to her own progressive base was um...not a winning move?

Is that actually what happened?

What data are you basing this on? Just your personal eye test


Because I don't feel like that's what she did or tried to do.

She was part of Biden's administration.
She was always going to run a campaign with closely aligned values.
It might be hard to believe but maybe she actually believes in the policies she presented.

If you asked the randy's, psych's of the world, Kamala was the most RADICAL LIBERAL candidate ever to run evar.

lol yea.

I always cringe when randy ranted about the leftists...cuz it's like bro but the only one who even comes close is Qusdahl and they/them hasn't posted here in months.

[jfish26]

And do you have anything to suggest progressive border policies don't/wouldn't have done well with the Hispanic/Latino vote that she needed?

Yes. Exit polling.

I know it's hard to believe because of their skin color, but a lot of minorities (black/Hispanic/latino/etc) have a lot of conservative leaning beliefs. Not all, maybe not even a majority, but Trump gained significant ground with these segments compared to last go round. In large part because of it.

I would imagine that much of the ground Trump gained with Latinx voters was among voters who individually experience the (very real!) unfairness of essentially getting undercut by scabs.

I can't fault people for voting their actual experience. That's a huge part of how it should work!

But of course the message got to, and unquestionably and conclusively influenced, those for whom the experience was significantly less personal. Those for whom the adoption and amplification of the message was significantly more cynical.

[pdub]

I would imagine that much of the ground Trump gained with Latinx voters was among voters who individually experience the (very real!) unfairness of essentially getting undercut by scabs.

I can't fault people for voting their actual experience. That's a huge part of how it should work!

But of course the message got to, and unquestionably and conclusively influenced, those for whom the experience was significantly less personal. Those for whom the adoption and amplification of the message was significantly more cynical.

Well said.

[BiggDick]

Maybe I'm just fatigued this morning, for forgive me, but I dunno what to make of, "she addresses many of the things that she ( the Biden administration ) didn't wait for on that very website." If there's something specific you want to chat about, let's, but otherwise please don't expect me to go on some fishing expedition the loosing candidate's website just cuz.

Go read it. I'm not reading it for you.
Find the points where she talks about what her administration has done so far.
There's a decent amount of content specifically where she does that.

https://kamalaharris.com/issues/

CoyDC's back!

but for real, it's just more empty campaign rhetoric. And the problem with empty campaign rhetoric is it just feels so...well...empty.

Maybe that's just my own EyE TeSt!!! tho.

And, let's assume "what her administration has done so far" is very objectively and accurately and fully (to use the antonym of empty) described on her website.

If that's the case, and she still got roasted in the election anyway, well then maybe those achievements just weren't that great either way...sigh

[pdub]

Maybe I'm just fatigued this morning, for forgive me, but I dunno what to make of, "she addresses many of the things that she ( the Biden administration ) didn't wait for on that very website." If there's something specific you want to chat about, let's, but otherwise please don't expect me to go on some fishing expedition the loosing candidate's website just cuz.

Go read it. I'm not reading it for you.
Find the points where she talks about what her administration has done so far.
There's a decent amount of content specifically where she does that.

https://kamalaharris.com/issues/

CoyDC's back!

but for real, it's just more empty campaign rhetoric. And the problem with empty campaign rhetoric is it just feels so...well...empty.

Maybe that's just my own EyE TeSt!!! tho.

But you didn't read it, that's the problem.
You sat and read a paragraph and came back here.
So yes, it is your own EyE TeSt!! tho.

[BiggDick]

you want me to go read her entire website, then?

[pdub]

"Hey why didn't Kamala try to do any of the things she lists in her current platform?"
Shows proof that she did.
"OK, but not the exact way I wanted her to tackle and talk about those issues!"

[pdub]

you want me to go read her entire website, then?

It wouldn't hurt.

[BiggDick]

but what you're failing to reconcile, is that even if she did do those things, it wasn't wasn't enough to win over enough voters.

[pdub]

but what you're failing to reconcile, is that even if she did do those things, it wasn't wasn't enough to win over enough voters.

Sigh.
No dude.