America Failed

[BiggDick]

so what's your point then?

I'm not giving her enough credit for proving she did do the things that were in her platform she ran on that ultimately got her ass kicked on election day?

[pdub]

My god.
It's like you don't even read the things people post.

[BiggDick]

right back atcha!

if you're suggesting I didn't go read her entire website just cuz you told me to, you're right.

cuz, let's face it: you didn't read it either, nor did anyone else.

and regardless, offering a loosing candidate's website as a talking point the day after they get their ass kicked is kinda silly. Kinda late to do anything about it now, huh.

[pdub]

Look at your comment that made me sigh.

"but what you're failing to reconcile, is that even if she did do those things, it wasn't wasn't enough to win over enough voters."

Then go back in THIS LITERAL THREAD THAT I POSTED and try to deduce some things out of things that I LITERALLY POSTED.

I'll quote some of them for you to make it easier.

"I think Democrats can take part of the blame here for not being realistic with the health of their candidate earlier."

"I do think a good percentage of these voters simply aren’t ready for a female president."

"I think a new voice at the right time would have made a difference, no doubt in my mind.
Harris was attached to Biden and what many Trump voters associated with the problems they had."

"She certainly isn't likable to white males. ( i mean, hell, I compared her to veggie lasagna ) I think she was put in a bad spot - associated with Biden and the last four years - and did have issues with likability, yes."

"It might be hard to believe but maybe she actually believes in the policies she presented."

So from those comments, and, this one in particular, you know the very first comment:

"Not that I didn’t see this coming.
I think Christian white people - largely men - ( yes Trump gained some of the Latino vote - again largely men - but Harris still won the majority ) were concerned about their role in society and felt abandoned/attacked. They were also not happy with the recovery of the economy, specifically their individual purchasing power, after the pandemic.

I think Democrats can take part of the blame here for not being realistic with the health of their candidate earlier.

The failure isn’t how they felt per se—it is the candidate that they stood behind. He is the embodiment of the worst of this country. A cheater. A bigot. A sore looser. A liar. A man solely out for his money and his ego. And a man who at best riled up his base after he lost in 20 just enough to cause something he didn’t intend and, at worst, was trying with everything he had to overturn the Democratic process.

He conned the people yet again with promises he can fix things. He will try his best to give tax breaks to the wealthy. He will try his best to institute tariffs. And deport immigrants. And absolve himself of crimes or misconduct. It remains to be seen if any of that will actually work in any positive way.

I’m doubting it.

Fucking shameful.""


perhaps you could deduce that, hey, maybe he has reconciled that, yes, she was put in a bad spot ( with a large part of the blame on her party ) and she also failed at convincing a group of voters who were upset with the previous administration that they wouldn't get four more years of the same. But a large group of these voters are problematic and should be ashamed of themselves.

So then let's finally address this part:

"so what's your point then?"

Well just read this part again:

"perhaps you could deduce that, hey, maybe he has reconciled that, yes, she was put in a bad spot ( with a large part of the blame on her party ) and she also failed at convincing a group of voters who were upset with the previous administration that they wouldn't get four more years of the same. But a large group of these voters are problematic and should be ashamed of themselves."

And then this part again:

"Not that I didn’t see this coming.
I think Christian white people - largely men - ( yes Trump gained some of the Latino vote - again largely men - but Harris still won the majority ) were concerned about their role in society and felt abandoned/attacked. They were also not happy with the recovery of the economy, specifically their individual purchasing power, after the pandemic.

I think Democrats can take part of the blame here for not being realistic with the health of their candidate earlier.

The failure isn’t how they felt per se—it is the candidate that they stood behind. He is the embodiment of the worst of this country. A cheater. A bigot. A sore looser. A liar. A man solely out for his money and his ego. And a man who at best riled up his base after he lost in 20 just enough to cause something he didn’t intend and, at worst, was trying with everything he had to overturn the Democratic process.

He conned the people yet again with promises he can fix things. He will try his best to give tax breaks to the wealthy. He will try his best to institute tariffs. And deport immigrants. And absolve himself of crimes or misconduct. It remains to be seen if any of that will actually work in any positive way.

I’m doubting it.

Fucking shameful.""

[DeletedUser]

I would imagine that much of the ground Trump gained with Latinx voters was among voters who individually experience the (very real!) unfairness of essentially getting undercut by scabs.

I can't fault people for voting their actual experience. That's a huge part of how it should work!

But of course the message got to, and unquestionably and conclusively influenced, those for whom the experience was significantly less personal. Those for whom the adoption and amplification of the message was significantly more cynical.

Well said.

Agreed.

[DeletedUser]

Look at your comment that made me sigh.

"but what you're failing to reconcile, is that even if she did do those things, it wasn't wasn't enough to win over enough voters."

Then go back in THIS LITERAL THREAD THAT I POSTED and try to deduce some things out of things that I LITERALLY POSTED.

I'll quote some of them for you to make it easier.

"I think Democrats can take part of the blame here for not being realistic with the health of their candidate earlier."

"I do think a good percentage of these voters simply aren’t ready for a female president."

"I think a new voice at the right time would have made a difference, no doubt in my mind.
Harris was attached to Biden and what many Trump voters associated with the problems they had."

"She certainly isn't likable to white males. ( i mean, hell, I compared her to veggie lasagna ) I think she was put in a bad spot - associated with Biden and the last four years - and did have issues with likability, yes."

"It might be hard to believe but maybe she actually believes in the policies she presented."

So from those comments, and, this one in particular, you know the very first comment:

"Not that I didn’t see this coming.
I think Christian white people - largely men - ( yes Trump gained some of the Latino vote - again largely men - but Harris still won the majority ) were concerned about their role in society and felt abandoned/attacked. They were also not happy with the recovery of the economy, specifically their individual purchasing power, after the pandemic.

I think Democrats can take part of the blame here for not being realistic with the health of their candidate earlier.

The failure isn’t how they felt per se—it is the candidate that they stood behind. He is the embodiment of the worst of this country. A cheater. A bigot. A sore looser. A liar. A man solely out for his money and his ego. And a man who at best riled up his base after he lost in 20 just enough to cause something he didn’t intend and, at worst, was trying with everything he had to overturn the Democratic process.

He conned the people yet again with promises he can fix things. He will try his best to give tax breaks to the wealthy. He will try his best to institute tariffs. And deport immigrants. And absolve himself of crimes or misconduct. It remains to be seen if any of that will actually work in any positive way.

I’m doubting it.

Fucking shameful.""


perhaps you could deduce that, hey, maybe he has reconciled that, yes, she was put in a bad spot ( with a large part of the blame on her party ) and she also failed at convincing a group of voters who were upset with the previous administration that they wouldn't get four more years of the same. But a large group of these voters are problematic and should be ashamed of themselves.

So then let's finally address this part:

"so what's your point then?"

Well just read this part again:

"perhaps you could deduce that, hey, maybe he has reconciled that, yes, she was put in a bad spot ( with a large part of the blame on her party ) and she also failed at convincing a group of voters who were upset with the previous administration that they wouldn't get four more years of the same. But a large group of these voters are problematic and should be ashamed of themselves."

And then this part again:

"Not that I didn’t see this coming.
I think Christian white people - largely men - ( yes Trump gained some of the Latino vote - again largely men - but Harris still won the majority ) were concerned about their role in society and felt abandoned/attacked. They were also not happy with the recovery of the economy, specifically their individual purchasing power, after the pandemic.

I think Democrats can take part of the blame here for not being realistic with the health of their candidate earlier.

The failure isn’t how they felt per se—it is the candidate that they stood behind. He is the embodiment of the worst of this country. A cheater. A bigot. A sore looser. A liar. A man solely out for his money and his ego. And a man who at best riled up his base after he lost in 20 just enough to cause something he didn’t intend and, at worst, was trying with everything he had to overturn the Democratic process.

He conned the people yet again with promises he can fix things. He will try his best to give tax breaks to the wealthy. He will try his best to institute tariffs. And deport immigrants. And absolve himself of crimes or misconduct. It remains to be seen if any of that will actually work in any positive way.

I’m doubting it.

Fucking shameful.""

You're wasting your time.

[pdub]

cuz, let's face it: you didn't read it either, nor did anyone else.

I did read it.
I read the entire page of her issues top to bottom.
Weeks ago.
I was initially upset like you she wasn't stating what she stood for and that, of all places, it should be on her website. And then it was. And then I read it all.

viewtopic.php?p=431376#p431376

viewtopic.php?p=419753#p419753

viewtopic.php?p=419416#p419416

[jfish26]

right back atcha!

if you're suggesting I didn't go read her entire website just cuz you told me to, you're right.

cuz, let's face it: you didn't read it either, nor did anyone else.

and regardless, offering a loosing candidate's website as a talking point the day after they get their ass kicked is kinda silly. Kinda late to do anything about it now, huh.

But I think you're getting at the most distressing thing at the heart of the point - there is not really an objective argument that Trump ran a better campaign than Harris did.

He was taking mid-range 2s, she was all layups and threes. And yet he smoked her; he had the walkons in before the under 4:00 TV timeout.

What that means is that the portion of the electorate that was receptive to his message was just substantially larger than the portion of the electorate that was receptive to hers.

[pdub]

You're wasting your time.

Yea.
I know.

[jfish26]

Best case now is what exactly - that his economic policies have disastrous-enough effects to make 2028 (or even the midterms?) about the "hardship" Elon promised?

[pdub]

Well, actual best case is he isn't.

[DeletedUser]

I will say this...

A noticeable shift by Liberal media and TV talking heads this morning. The View just said "Trump voters are good and decent people, and it's okay to disagree".

I think this is a good move. Telling half the country they're idiots (even if true) doesn't help anything.

[pdub]

"Trump voters are good and decent people"

But this isn't fully true.
It just isn't.

But also, yes, being civil at or on certain stages is productive.

[BiggDick]

cuz, let's face it: you didn't read it either, nor did anyone else.

I did read it.
I read the entire page of her issues top to bottom.
Weeks ago.
I was initially upset like you she wasn't stating what she stood for and that, of all places, it should be on her website. And then it was. And then I read it all.

viewtopic.php?p=431376#p431376

viewtopic.php?p=419753#p419753

viewtopic.php?p=419416#p419416

ok great. Forgive me for suggesting you didn't. Cuz, yea, I quit the pols bored before she actually put that on her website.

So I suppose it sucks for her, and for you as a supporter, and in a sense for America at large, that although she put that on her website, she still got meat necklaced by a nut job anyway.

[BiggDick]

"Trump voters are good and decent people"

But this isn't fully true.
It just isn't.

But also, yes, being civil at or on certain stages is productive.

[BiggDick]

to the point - Trump voters are either bigoted nut jobs themselves, or they're ok with the bigoted nut jobs.

And at the end of the day, I'm just not sure there's much of a difference.

[pdub]

So I suppose it sucks for her, and for you as a supporter, and in a sense for America at large, that although she put that on her website, she still got meat necklaced by a nut job anyway.

Add 'with little to no choice' after supporter and remove the 'in a sense' and I'm in agreement with that, yes.

[BiggDick]

You're wasting your time.

Yea.
I know.

I mean, only if you want to be.

[MICHHAWK]

Best case now is what exactly - that his economic policies have disastrous-enough effects to make 2028 (or even the midterms?) about the "hardship" Elon promised?

hoping the country tanks hard.?!?

gee. i wonder why the good folks rejected you and your kind last night. it's a mystery.

[pdub]

to the point - Trump voters are either bigoted nut jobs themselves, or they're ok with the bigoted nut jobs.

And at the end of the day, I'm just not sure there's much of a difference.

I believe there is.
That's why two posters on this site are currently on a week vacation.