America Failed

[DeletedUser]

this whole "appeal to republicans instead of her own base" was an all-time dumb strategy.

You've created this in your head. That wasn't what happened.

https://www.npr.org/2024/10/25/nx-s1-51 ... ican-votes

https://www.politico.com/live-updates/2 ... s-00184032

https://www.aljazeera.com/opinions/2024 ... y-backfire

The key phrase in your post was "instead of".

She didn't choose republicans OVER democrats or "her own base". She tried to be appealing to all voters, which is what a person running for President should do. And also what she needed to do to win the middle.

You're allowed to think whatever you want though. I'd be curious to know if you actually voted. You seem like someone who might not bother to vote, but who then complains about the results or how campaigns were ran on the internet.

[RainbowsandUnicorns]

I addressed that in this very thread.

Yes, you did. At 11:55am.
I must have missed it.
My bad!!
We will never know how much that may have hurt her but it couldn't have helped her.

A lot of Wednesday morning, afternoon, and evening, Quarterbacks that I have read and heard speak about what happened and what didn't happen.
I am having a difficult time understanding why the Dems knew damn well that this could have happened long before Biden announced his candidacy in 2020 and yet they said "fuck it". Did they really not think there was someone else who would have beaten Trump in 2020? Now here we are.

[pdub]

2020 worked. The people elected Biden in the primaries. 2024 had no primary and this is likely a large reason why the Democrats had a 15-20 million smaller showing than 2020.

TDub and I were specifically talking about this before Biden stepped down—that even in a system where your choices are already minimal ( no ranked choice voting, no established third party ) it can become exponentially worse when the incumbent gets to run again in the party without a primary.

Did the people ( Democrats ) want that? I’d say likely not but we will never know because we didn’t get to vote.

[DrPepper]

Don't forget how many people are not registered for a party at all. They do not care about primaries. Nowadays, roughly speaking, there are 1/3 Republican, 1/3 Dem, 1/3 Independent or third-party.
It would be hard to say how many of those are nevertrumpers (and there are some in every party (even JD at one point)).

[RainbowsandUnicorns]

2020 worked. The people elected Biden in the primaries. 2024 had no primary and this is likely a large reason why the Democrats had a 15-20 million smaller showing than 2020.

TDub and I were specifically talking about this before Biden stepped down—that even in a system where your choices are already minimal ( no ranked choice voting, no established third party ) it can become exponentially worse when the incumbent gets to run again in the party without a primary.

Did the people ( Democrats ) want that? I’d say likely not but we will never know because we didn’t get to vote.

So..... I agree with you and TDub - in that it seems like a flawed system when the voters don't have a say in who their candidate is - but..... There were Democratic primaries. I voted in one.
I think I might understand that you feel there should have been primaries after Biden stepped down? Yes? No?
Here is my million dollar and 20 million vote question.
From what little I heard and know, many of the behind the scenes Dems tried to get Joe to announce he wasn't going to run - before the primaries - and he refused. So...... How much blame lies on Joe Biden for where we are today?
There is no guarantee anyone else would have beaten Trump, but we now know Harris wasn't the right candidate to do it.
While Shirley and others of the bored like/d to RIGHTFULLY thank Joe Biden for this and that....
I'm confident the guy will go down in history as a significant failure. On multiple levels.

[DeletedUser]

How much blame lies on Joe Biden for where we are today?

I blame him quite a bit. His ego wouldn't allow him to say several years ago that he was going to be a 1 term president.

And tbh, I think he had to be pushed pretty hard to drop out 200ish days ago or however many days it was.

[DrPepper]

Nearly a month ago, Kamala Harris appeared on ABC's The View in what was expected to be a friendly interview aimed at pitching herself to Americans who wanted to know more about her.
But the sit-down was quickly overshadowed by her response to a question on what she would have done differently from incumbent president, Joe Biden: "Not a thing comes to mind."

I keep hearing the above stated over and over ad nauseam. That single moment was scooped up and run in for the score by the opposition. Despite her actual policy plans and Donald's hundreds of screw-ups (eg, his reply on how to deal with childcare, his concept of a healthcare plan). So this leads me back to a mixture of voters not remembering how horrible things were in 2020 and Americans simply being darker than I want to believe.

It is great that a Trump win averted a civil war for the time being, and Trump will soon be back to playing golf every day (a reference to his last stint as Pres, not a reference to supposed assassination attempts). But he will leave things to Elon, RFKj, and JD, so I don't feel great about that.

[pdub]

2020 worked. The people elected Biden in the primaries. 2024 had no primary and this is likely a large reason why the Democrats had a 15-20 million smaller showing than 2020.

TDub and I were specifically talking about this before Biden stepped down—that even in a system where your choices are already minimal ( no ranked choice voting, no established third party ) it can become exponentially worse when the incumbent gets to run again in the party without a primary.

Did the people ( Democrats ) want that? I’d say likely not but we will never know because we didn’t get to vote.

So..... I agree with you and TDub - in that it seems like a flawed system when the voters don't have a say in who their candidate is - but..... There were Democratic primaries. I voted in one.

Not a serious primary with candidates who had the money to compete against the full force of the entire Democratic Party.

[RainbowsandUnicorns]

Nearly a month ago, Kamala Harris appeared on ABC's The View in what was expected to be a friendly interview aimed at pitching herself to Americans who wanted to know more about her.
But the sit-down was quickly overshadowed by her response to a question on what she would have done differently from incumbent president, Joe Biden: "Not a thing comes to mind."

I keep hearing the above stated over and over ad nauseam. That single moment was scooped up and run in for the score by the opposition. Despite her actual policy plans and Donald's hundreds of screw-ups (eg, his reply on how to deal with childcare, his concept of a healthcare plan). So this leads me back to a mixture of voters not remembering how horrible things were in 2020 and Americans simply being darker than I want to believe.

It is great that a Trump win averted a civil war for the time being, and Trump will soon be back to playing golf every day (a reference to his last stint as Pres, not a reference to supposed assassination attempts). But he will leave things to Elon, RFKj, and JD, so I don't feel great about that.

"But he will leave things to Elon, RFKj, and JD, so I don't feel great about that."

BINGO! I share the same sentiment.
Here's the crazy thing (to me), I have an intelligent co-worker who is ecstatic that Elon, RFKjr., Vivek, heck Dana White, JD, etc., will ultimately be allowed to help run the show.
As I said, sure - I would be lying if I said am not intrigued (that's not necessarily a positive word) by it but I would also be lying if I said it doesn't scare the shit out me thinking about the potential repercussions of it.
If Donald runs true to form, he will either eat up what those guys say and do, or he won't listen to them at all, and nothing in-between - because he needs to be the most important and powerful man in each and every situation he is involved in and he always knows best about anything and everything. At least he likes to tell people that.

[twocoach]

Blame stupidity, laziness and selfishness for this with a helping hand from social media. As pointed out in the Misinformation thread, people that even bother to read any news are now primarily getting to it through social media, where anyone can now be a "news source" and the vast majority of that info is just headline gifs (without the actual article attached) or flat out incorrect information. Very few people went into this election knowing that actual relevant facts.

The people here that research, critically read and make an effort to inform themselves of the truth are a tiny minority in this country. Most around us are fat, lazy, selfish and uninformed. Face it. Be honest about it.

And it is only going to get worse.

[DeletedUser]

I think many/most people vote based on their personal experience of what impacts them in their daily life. Which isn't necessarily a bad thing.

[KUTradition]

I think many/most people vote based on their personal experience of what impacts them in their daily life. Which isn't necessarily a bad thing.

it’s bad when that’s the only information they use

as i’ve said plenty before, anecdotes are like assholes…any one person’s experience in this world does little to inform them on the experiences of others, or on the larger scale of things happening outside of their own bubbles

a person voting solely based on their own experience, in my mind, is a poorly informed voter

[twocoach]

I think many/most people vote based on their personal experience of what impacts them in their daily life. Which isn't necessarily a bad thing.

it’s bad when that’s the only information they use

as i’ve said plenty before, anecdotes are like assholes…any one person’s experience in this world does little to inform them on the experiences of others, or on the larger scale of things happening outside of their own bubbles

a person voting solely based on their own experience, in my mind, is a poorly informed voter

It's bad for Democrats for sure. Most of their platform is to help others who cant help themselves while most of the GOP platform is to help yourself.

[DeletedUser]

Most of their platform is to help others who cant help themselves

Is it really though?

Sometimes I wonder.

[BiggDick]

ugh, I planned to be done with the pols bored by now.

But, sigh...let's do this.

You've created this in your head. That wasn't what happened.

https://www.npr.org/2024/10/25/nx-s1-51 ... ican-votes

https://www.politico.com/live-updates/2 ... s-00184032

https://www.aljazeera.com/opinions/2024 ... y-backfire

The key phrase in your post was "instead of".

She didn't choose republicans OVER democrats or "her own base". She tried to be appealing to all voters, which is what a person running for President should do. And also what she needed to do to win the middle.

Kamala Harris’s pursuit of Republican voters may backfire

Chasing after neocon endorsements and embracing the right may cost the Democratic candidate Democratic and independent votes.

It's kind of an either/or thing. She could either run on a more progressive platform and messaging that would appeal to more left-leaning voters, OR she could cozy up to pubs and right-leaning ideologies that stood the chance to alienate her own base. She chose the latter.

You're allowed to think whatever you want though. I'd be curious to know if you actually voted. You seem like someone who might not bother to vote, but who then complains about the results or how campaigns were ran on the internet.

oh come on bro, you know who I voted for...

[pdub]

So no serious answer?
Did you actually vote?
Just curious.

[KUTradition]

ugh, I planned to be done with the pols bored by now.

But, sigh...let's do this.

https://www.npr.org/2024/10/25/nx-s1-51 ... ican-votes

https://www.politico.com/live-updates/2 ... s-00184032

https://www.aljazeera.com/opinions/2024 ... y-backfire

The key phrase in your post was "instead of".

She didn't choose republicans OVER democrats or "her own base". She tried to be appealing to all voters, which is what a person running for President should do. And also what she needed to do to win the middle.

Kamala Harris’s pursuit of Republican voters may backfire

Chasing after neocon endorsements and embracing the right may cost the Democratic candidate Democratic and independent votes.

It's kind of an either/or thing. She could either run on a more progressive platform and messaging that would appeal to more left-leaning voters, OR she could cozy up to pubs and right-leaning ideologies that stood the chance to alienate her own base. She chose the latter.

You're allowed to think whatever you want though. I'd be curious to know if you actually voted. You seem like someone who might not bother to vote, but who then complains about the results or how campaigns were ran on the internet.

oh come on bro, you know who I voted for...

you’ve said you’d be done here multiple times

shocked you aren’t a “man” of your word

[BiggDick]

2020 worked. The people elected Biden in the primaries. 2024 had no primary and this is likely a large reason why the Democrats had a 15-20 million smaller showing than 2020.

TDub and I were specifically talking about this before Biden stepped down—that even in a system where your choices are already minimal ( no ranked choice voting, no established third party ) it can become exponentially worse when the incumbent gets to run again in the party without a primary.

Did the people ( Democrats ) want that? I’d say likely not but we will never know because we didn’t get to vote.

we talked about Latinx and African Americans and younger voters and such. But thee single biggest voter shift, more than any particular demographic, is that dems managed to LOOSE like 8 figures worth of votes since last election. That's enormous. And a testament to how much dems suck.

And even when Dems run primaries, it's not like they manage to put any actually likable candidates out there. 2020 we had, who? Kooky old Bernie? Tulsi? Michael Bloomberg? Kamala? Then all of a sudden they just kinda POOF disappeared in favor of ol' Uncle Joe.

2016 was even worse...Bernie was slightly less old and kooky, and getting a helluva lot of momentum, until the DNC just kinda Tony Soprano'd his campaign so a historically controversial establishment candidate in Hillary could go fuck it up for them instead.

what this country desperately needs is a third party. An actual working-class party that actually appeals to average Americans. Perhaps the funniest thing that could possibly happen from this whole fallout right now is, Bernie starts a Labor Party.

[BiggDick]

ugh, I planned to be done with the pols bored by now.

But, sigh...let's do this.

The key phrase in your post was "instead of".

She didn't choose republicans OVER democrats or "her own base". She tried to be appealing to all voters, which is what a person running for President should do. And also what she needed to do to win the middle.

Kamala Harris’s pursuit of Republican voters may backfire

Chasing after neocon endorsements and embracing the right may cost the Democratic candidate Democratic and independent votes.

It's kind of an either/or thing. She could either run on a more progressive platform and messaging that would appeal to more left-leaning voters, OR she could cozy up to pubs and right-leaning ideologies that stood the chance to alienate her own base. She chose the latter.

You're allowed to think whatever you want though. I'd be curious to know if you actually voted. You seem like someone who might not bother to vote, but who then complains about the results or how campaigns were ran on the internet.

oh come on bro, you know who I voted for...

you’ve said you’d be done here multiple times

shocked you aren’t a “man” of your word

then stop responding, "man!"

Please just ignore me.

[KUTradition]

you’ve been on ignore for months

how about you just grow the fuck up and quit being so intentionally obnoxious?

and it’s absolutely intentional because you keep apologizing for it