no one said Trump would be better for Palestinians.
Rather, it's' that Kamala could not have been any worse for Palestinians.
Israel/Palestine
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KUTradition
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Re: Israel/Palestine
so dumb
have Gaza and/or the West Bank been annexed?
have all Palestinians in Israel been exterminated, locked up, or kicked out of the country? have they lost their jobs and interred in camps?
there’s a whole hell of a lot more that might have been, and still might be visited on the Palestinians
seems Israeli settlers are chomping at the bit with trump’s election…
have Gaza and/or the West Bank been annexed?
have all Palestinians in Israel been exterminated, locked up, or kicked out of the country? have they lost their jobs and interred in camps?
there’s a whole hell of a lot more that might have been, and still might be visited on the Palestinians
seems Israeli settlers are chomping at the bit with trump’s election…
Have we fallen into a mesmerized state that makes us accept as inevitable that which is inferior or detrimental, as though having lost the will or the vision to demand that which is good?
Re: Israel/Palestine
ho-lee fuck.
maybe the real problem is, you and so many other Dems would rather go for these floor/ceiling sorts of vague metaphors and disingenuous rhetorical questions, rather than actually acknowledge how much blood is already on the Biden/Harris administration's hands.
maybe the real problem is, you and so many other Dems would rather go for these floor/ceiling sorts of vague metaphors and disingenuous rhetorical questions, rather than actually acknowledge how much blood is already on the Biden/Harris administration's hands.
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KUTradition
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Re: Israel/Palestine
oh fuck off
YOU said Kamala could “not have been any worse” for Palestinians
clown
YOU said Kamala could “not have been any worse” for Palestinians
clown
Have we fallen into a mesmerized state that makes us accept as inevitable that which is inferior or detrimental, as though having lost the will or the vision to demand that which is good?
Re: Israel/Palestine
I spoke in metaphor because you seem to want to run away from the truth: to spite Harris for not being lefty enough, people like you enabled something far worse.
Re: Israel/Palestine
nah man, the one running away from the truth is you.
That "something far worse" is already happening! With the Biden/Harris administration signing off on it!
By not being lefty enough, Harris spited herself.
That "something far worse" is already happening! With the Biden/Harris administration signing off on it!
By not being lefty enough, Harris spited herself.
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KUTradition
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Re: Israel/Palestine
if everyone else in the room is an asshole…
i mean, seriously, read the fucking room
i mean, seriously, read the fucking room
Have we fallen into a mesmerized state that makes us accept as inevitable that which is inferior or detrimental, as though having lost the will or the vision to demand that which is good?
Re: Israel/Palestine
if everyone else in the room turns a blind eye to genocide, then yeah, everyone else in the room IS an asshole.KUTradition wrote: ↑Wed Nov 13, 2024 7:46 am if everyone else in the room is an asshole…
i mean, seriously, read the fucking room
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KUTradition
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Re: Israel/Palestine
so we’re back to temper tantrums and just flat lying againBiggDick wrote: ↑Wed Nov 13, 2024 7:54 amif everyone else in the room turns a blind eye to genocide, then yeah, everyone else in the room IS an asshole.KUTradition wrote: ↑Wed Nov 13, 2024 7:46 am if everyone else in the room is an asshole…
i mean, seriously, read the fucking room
jfc
Have we fallen into a mesmerized state that makes us accept as inevitable that which is inferior or detrimental, as though having lost the will or the vision to demand that which is good?
Re: Israel/Palestine
flat lying?
what sort of evidence would you need to consider that maybe Gaza really is as bad as the human rights groups and bleeding heart types say it is?
How many neighborhoods wiped off the map?
How many casualties among children?
What would it take for you?
what sort of evidence would you need to consider that maybe Gaza really is as bad as the human rights groups and bleeding heart types say it is?
How many neighborhoods wiped off the map?
How many casualties among children?
What would it take for you?
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KUTradition
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Re: Israel/Palestine
fuck you
everyone else in the room turns a blind eye to genocide
like seriously, fuck you. grow up. this EXACTLY the bullshit rhetorical nonsense that set you and i down this road
it’s childish and lazy
fuck you
everyone else in the room turns a blind eye to genocide
like seriously, fuck you. grow up. this EXACTLY the bullshit rhetorical nonsense that set you and i down this road
it’s childish and lazy
fuck you
Have we fallen into a mesmerized state that makes us accept as inevitable that which is inferior or detrimental, as though having lost the will or the vision to demand that which is good?
Re: Israel/Palestine
man. The "childish" and "grow up" shots might land a little better if it wasn't also ironically riddled with so many refrains of, "fuck you."
and if being genuinely concerned about genocide makes me childish, then I guess I'll never grow up.
and if being genuinely concerned about genocide makes me childish, then I guess I'll never grow up.
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KUTradition
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Re: Israel/Palestine
To those pro-Palestinian purists who threw away their vote on third party candidate Dr. Jill Stein in order to punish Vice President Kamala Harris for the Biden administration’s Gaza war policy, let me introduce you to the future United States Ambassador to Israel, Mike Huckabee, who in 2008 said, “There really is no such thing as a Palestinian.”
“I think Israel has title deed to Judea and Samaria,” Huckabee said in 2017, on what he says is more than 100 trips to Israel since his first visit in 1973. “There are certain words I refuse to use. There is no such thing as a West Bank. It’s Judea and Samaria. There’s no such thing as a settlement. They’re communities, they’re neighborhoods, they’re cities. There’s no such thing as an occupation.”
To those Arab-Americans in Dearborn, Mich., whose desire to stick it to Biden and Harris made Trump the first Republican presidential candidate to win in America’s largest Arab city since 2000, I give you the likely next secretary of state, Sen. Marco Rubio.
Rubio accused the Biden administration of not being sufficiently supportive of Israel’s campaign against Hamas in Gaza. In a video that made the rounds on social media, Rubio said he does not support a ceasefire until Israel destroys “every element” of Hamas.
“I feel terrible,” he said about the estimated 15,000 Palestinian children killed in the war. “But I blame Hamas.”
To those Arab-Americans in Michigan who believed, even for a second, the cynical Trump television ads saying Harris was a puppet of Israel and that only Trump could bring peace to the Middle East, meet your next national security advisor, Rep. Mike Waltz.
On Fox News earlier this year, Waltz said the Biden administration took an “appeasement first” approach to Iran. He said members of Congress who supported a Gaza ceasefire were “antisemitic,” and promised to give Israel a free hand to attack Iranian nuclear facilities.
To the pro-Palestinian groups that disrupted and sowed chaos at Harris’s campaign stops, I think you’ll enjoy the new CIA director, John Ratcliffe. The former director of national intelligence accused the Biden administration of being insufficiently supportive of Israel, signed a commemorative statement declaring Jerusalem “the eternal capital of the Jewish people,” and as a Texas representative voted for the ban on immigration from seven predominantly Muslim countries.
To the 74% of Muslim-Americans who, according to a Council on American-Islamic Relations exit poll, voted for Stein or Trump, say hello to the incoming United States Ambassador to the U.N., Rep. Elise Stefanik.
Stefanik took a bold stand against genocide — that is, she pressed three presidents of elite universities on whether it’s appropriate for college protesters to call for the genocide of Jews. She recently called to cut off aid for the United Nations Relief and Works Agency for Palestine (UNRWA), the main supplier of humanitarian assistance to Palestinians in Gaza.
“The United States must stand with Israel’s decision to ban Hamas-infiltrated UNRWA from operating in Israel, the West Bank, and Gaza,” she said in a Nov. 4 press release.
And to that one leader of the Arab-American group Uncommitted, who withheld his support from Harris until about a minute before the election, I give you the next secretary of defense, Pete Hegseth.
You are really going to love him.
Hegseth, a combat veteran, Princeton and Harvard graduate, and, like Huckabee, a Fox News regular, said a trip to Israel as a journalist cemented his love and appreciation for the Jewish state.
The visit, he told the Jewish Press in 2016, “reaffirmed the ties the Jewish people have to this land that have historical and real geopolitical resonance today. This is not some mystical land that can be dismissed. It’s the story of God’s chosen people.”
That’s a lot of crow to eat in two days. Arab-Americans and anti-Israel activists who wanted to believe that Trump was going to be tougher on Israel and more sympathetic to the Palestinian cause can now stand in line behind his Taj Mahal casino creditors, Trump University enrollees, and the 13 former high-ranking Trump administration officials who warned, in writing, that he cannot be trusted...
“I think Israel has title deed to Judea and Samaria,” Huckabee said in 2017, on what he says is more than 100 trips to Israel since his first visit in 1973. “There are certain words I refuse to use. There is no such thing as a West Bank. It’s Judea and Samaria. There’s no such thing as a settlement. They’re communities, they’re neighborhoods, they’re cities. There’s no such thing as an occupation.”
To those Arab-Americans in Dearborn, Mich., whose desire to stick it to Biden and Harris made Trump the first Republican presidential candidate to win in America’s largest Arab city since 2000, I give you the likely next secretary of state, Sen. Marco Rubio.
Rubio accused the Biden administration of not being sufficiently supportive of Israel’s campaign against Hamas in Gaza. In a video that made the rounds on social media, Rubio said he does not support a ceasefire until Israel destroys “every element” of Hamas.
“I feel terrible,” he said about the estimated 15,000 Palestinian children killed in the war. “But I blame Hamas.”
To those Arab-Americans in Michigan who believed, even for a second, the cynical Trump television ads saying Harris was a puppet of Israel and that only Trump could bring peace to the Middle East, meet your next national security advisor, Rep. Mike Waltz.
On Fox News earlier this year, Waltz said the Biden administration took an “appeasement first” approach to Iran. He said members of Congress who supported a Gaza ceasefire were “antisemitic,” and promised to give Israel a free hand to attack Iranian nuclear facilities.
To the pro-Palestinian groups that disrupted and sowed chaos at Harris’s campaign stops, I think you’ll enjoy the new CIA director, John Ratcliffe. The former director of national intelligence accused the Biden administration of being insufficiently supportive of Israel, signed a commemorative statement declaring Jerusalem “the eternal capital of the Jewish people,” and as a Texas representative voted for the ban on immigration from seven predominantly Muslim countries.
To the 74% of Muslim-Americans who, according to a Council on American-Islamic Relations exit poll, voted for Stein or Trump, say hello to the incoming United States Ambassador to the U.N., Rep. Elise Stefanik.
Stefanik took a bold stand against genocide — that is, she pressed three presidents of elite universities on whether it’s appropriate for college protesters to call for the genocide of Jews. She recently called to cut off aid for the United Nations Relief and Works Agency for Palestine (UNRWA), the main supplier of humanitarian assistance to Palestinians in Gaza.
“The United States must stand with Israel’s decision to ban Hamas-infiltrated UNRWA from operating in Israel, the West Bank, and Gaza,” she said in a Nov. 4 press release.
And to that one leader of the Arab-American group Uncommitted, who withheld his support from Harris until about a minute before the election, I give you the next secretary of defense, Pete Hegseth.
You are really going to love him.
Hegseth, a combat veteran, Princeton and Harvard graduate, and, like Huckabee, a Fox News regular, said a trip to Israel as a journalist cemented his love and appreciation for the Jewish state.
The visit, he told the Jewish Press in 2016, “reaffirmed the ties the Jewish people have to this land that have historical and real geopolitical resonance today. This is not some mystical land that can be dismissed. It’s the story of God’s chosen people.”
That’s a lot of crow to eat in two days. Arab-Americans and anti-Israel activists who wanted to believe that Trump was going to be tougher on Israel and more sympathetic to the Palestinian cause can now stand in line behind his Taj Mahal casino creditors, Trump University enrollees, and the 13 former high-ranking Trump administration officials who warned, in writing, that he cannot be trusted...
Have we fallen into a mesmerized state that makes us accept as inevitable that which is inferior or detrimental, as though having lost the will or the vision to demand that which is good?
Re: Israel/Palestine
I struggle to understand how anyone in a democratic society can say anyone else "threw away their vote" by voting for a candidate they feel best represents the leadership they want.
If we aren't allowed to vote for whoever we want to vote for, then it's time to stop calling this a democracy.
(But I think it's cuz we as Americans are so conditioned to think any vote for POTUS outside the two-party system really is a waste. I dunno how else so many Muslim voters otherwise chose to vote for the dood who banned Muslims. but FWIW in Dearborn, Jill Stein did get a shitload of votes, like 18%, dunno if any other third-party candidate got that many votes anywhere else. I also think it's a testament to how unpopular Kamala and her platform was, but I know the sentiment here is actually to just call everybody else an idiot.)
But, yea, to go from so much relative indifference toward Gaza for the 13 months of horrors perped with the direct support of the Biden/Harris administration, to this sudden partisan pearl-clutching about Gaza now that there's a republican president-elect appointing other republicans that'll continue the exact same shit that's been happening to Gaza all along...yea, that IS a lot of crow to eat.
If we aren't allowed to vote for whoever we want to vote for, then it's time to stop calling this a democracy.
(But I think it's cuz we as Americans are so conditioned to think any vote for POTUS outside the two-party system really is a waste. I dunno how else so many Muslim voters otherwise chose to vote for the dood who banned Muslims. but FWIW in Dearborn, Jill Stein did get a shitload of votes, like 18%, dunno if any other third-party candidate got that many votes anywhere else. I also think it's a testament to how unpopular Kamala and her platform was, but I know the sentiment here is actually to just call everybody else an idiot.)
But, yea, to go from so much relative indifference toward Gaza for the 13 months of horrors perped with the direct support of the Biden/Harris administration, to this sudden partisan pearl-clutching about Gaza now that there's a republican president-elect appointing other republicans that'll continue the exact same shit that's been happening to Gaza all along...yea, that IS a lot of crow to eat.
Re: Israel/Palestine
Drop the victimhood. No one is telling you how you are "allowed" to vote or not vote.BiggDick wrote: ↑Wed Nov 13, 2024 8:30 am I struggle to understand how anyone in a democratic society can say anyone else "threw away their vote" by voting for a candidate they feel best represents the leadership they want.
If we aren't allowed to vote for whoever we want to vote for, then it's time to stop calling this a democracy.
Every single voter in America - yourself included - knew that one of exactly two people was going to be elected President.
Every single voter in America - yourself included - knew that every eligible vote that was not cast for Harris would move things incrementally toward Trump.
Enough of those increments happened, and so we got Trump.
When you watch our country go from squishy, both-sides-of-our-mouth support for Israel and more-than-somewhat-hollow support for Gaza (which you, justifiably, do not like), to something much much much less equivocal (and, for the Palestinians, much more bad), then you need to accept that every vote that didn't go to Harris (because she failed a Gaza purity test) made that outcome incrementally more likely.
Re: Israel/Palestine
again, not trying to play the victim! I just still can't help but cringe whenever I hear "threw away their vote" sorts of talking points.
yeah, I don't like the "more-than-somewhat-hollow support for Gaza." It should be something more than hollow. Yet, it feels, and obviously IS, so hollow considering we're also the ones supplying the weapons used to destroy Gaza, with little to nothing more than hollow rhetoric given to limit the destruction.
I just really struggle to understand how a republican winning back the White House makes it "much more bad" for Palestinians, considering how bad the Biden administration in particular, and so much of the entire history of U.S. support for Israel regardless of which party controls the White House, has always been for Palestinians.
Heck, it was even you specifically who previously declined to comment on U.S. bombs dropped on Gaza, on the hollow excuse given that you simply didn't understand. And now you're here trying to be taken seriously about some "much more bad" for Palestinians sorta point? It just feels hollow dude.
That you fail to acknowledge or even realize that, and instead come here only now to clutch pearls about it after there's an (R) about to be in charge of the destruction of Gaza, makes your concern for Gaza seem nothing more than partisan.
If dems really did loose so many votes to so many otherwise-reliably-dem voters (cuz of Gaza or otherwise), and whether it was cuz those otherwise-reliably-dem voters voted for Trump or third party or just didn't even vote at all, at some point it'd be worth it to dems to stop pointing fingers and take a look in the mirror.
Maybe it's worth considering that maybe Kamala does bear blame for Kamala not getting more votes.
Maybe if some voters didn't like Kamala cuz of the Biden/Harris administration's decisions surrounding Gaza, and/or Kamala's own failure to effectively distance herself from Biden on the matter, that's on Kamala.
If there are voters did choose Trump cuz of single-issue or even primary-issue criticism of Biden/Harris on Gaza, maybe it was cuz they were willing to hold their noses on what a candidate might do being potentially less bad than what a candidate has already done - or cuz, again, some "one of exactly two people" sort of either/or two-party conditioning.
yeah, I don't like the "more-than-somewhat-hollow support for Gaza." It should be something more than hollow. Yet, it feels, and obviously IS, so hollow considering we're also the ones supplying the weapons used to destroy Gaza, with little to nothing more than hollow rhetoric given to limit the destruction.
I just really struggle to understand how a republican winning back the White House makes it "much more bad" for Palestinians, considering how bad the Biden administration in particular, and so much of the entire history of U.S. support for Israel regardless of which party controls the White House, has always been for Palestinians.
Heck, it was even you specifically who previously declined to comment on U.S. bombs dropped on Gaza, on the hollow excuse given that you simply didn't understand. And now you're here trying to be taken seriously about some "much more bad" for Palestinians sorta point? It just feels hollow dude.
That you fail to acknowledge or even realize that, and instead come here only now to clutch pearls about it after there's an (R) about to be in charge of the destruction of Gaza, makes your concern for Gaza seem nothing more than partisan.
If dems really did loose so many votes to so many otherwise-reliably-dem voters (cuz of Gaza or otherwise), and whether it was cuz those otherwise-reliably-dem voters voted for Trump or third party or just didn't even vote at all, at some point it'd be worth it to dems to stop pointing fingers and take a look in the mirror.
Maybe it's worth considering that maybe Kamala does bear blame for Kamala not getting more votes.
Maybe if some voters didn't like Kamala cuz of the Biden/Harris administration's decisions surrounding Gaza, and/or Kamala's own failure to effectively distance herself from Biden on the matter, that's on Kamala.
If there are voters did choose Trump cuz of single-issue or even primary-issue criticism of Biden/Harris on Gaza, maybe it was cuz they were willing to hold their noses on what a candidate might do being potentially less bad than what a candidate has already done - or cuz, again, some "one of exactly two people" sort of either/or two-party conditioning.
Re: Israel/Palestine
I'm not clutching pearls over anything.
I'm looking at this from a practical point of view, not an ideological one.
As a practical matter, ideologues who chose not to vote for Harris because she failed a Gaza purity test, made it more likely that Trump would win the election.
I'm looking at this from a practical point of view, not an ideological one.
As a practical matter, ideologues who chose not to vote for Harris because she failed a Gaza purity test, made it more likely that Trump would win the election.
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KUTradition
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Re: Israel/Palestine
i said exactly how trump could be worse
Have we fallen into a mesmerized state that makes us accept as inevitable that which is inferior or detrimental, as though having lost the will or the vision to demand that which is good?
Re: Israel/Palestine
no offense but I'm not sure trad did.