America Failed

[twocoach]

I am mostly going to sit quiet and wait for all the benefits that Trump claims I am going to experience.

if only. more likely you will give us more halfcocked daily rants filled with your profanity and filthy mouth.

I will try to speak nicer to you so I don't force your fragile ego to vote for another racist rapist.

[pdub]

Armchair analysis from a half ass professor who believes the election was stolen just ain't gonna fly.
Take another week and think it over.

[jfish26]

so was the state of NY waiting on the Supreme Court? The convictions came in May, yet the scotus ruling came in July. and, sure, a stacked scotus doesn't wanna touch their guy, but I guess I don't understand why a state would wait around in anticipation of that.

yea, McConnell's a fucking snake. My dad always rants about how RBG screwed up the court by refusing to retire, but I think the much more egregious matter is McConnell pouncing on RBG's death as an opportunity to make a complete about-face on the whole "let the American voters decide who confirms a justice in an election year" bullshit.

re: take heart to "stomped," yea, there is the whole thing about how so many swing states were still decided by like 2% or less, I think.

re: "voting on issues and not on people," like 10 states had voter questions on abortion, and 7 of them passed. Even otherwise-red states like Missouri and Alaska passed paid sick leave and raises to minimum wage. Maybe that could have been an opportunity for Kamala, but I'm afraid she gave little more to it than hollow lip service, and voters saw through it.

I really do not think "Harris was not progressive enough" is on the short list of reasons she lost. That's not the story the demographic results tell, anyway.

The link isn't shareable, but I saw this morning a study that actual versus expected consumer economic sentiment was historically pretty tight - people's perceptions of the economy have historically tracked economic data pretty reliably.

That alignment blew up during/after Covid.

I think, when the full story is told, what we'll see is that American politics was teetering on the edge going into Covid, and was finally broken by everyone literally going into their own corners.

[BiggDick]

I dunno.

I suppose American voters have always been kinda light on policy understanding, in favor of more mindless popularity contest type stuff.

But, I still just think the trickle down economic messaging, Trump-lite border messaging, remember when we cared about climate change messaging, stop making such a big deal about genocidal foreign policy messaging, etc. sort of messaging didn’t help either.

[jfish26]

Where are you getting "trickle-down economic messaging" from?

[BiggDick]

Where are you getting "trickle-down economic messaging" from?

When Vice President Kamala Harris traveled to a locally owned brewery in New Hampshire to talk about helping small businesses — a major plank of her economic platform — she made sure that one group of Americans felt included: millionaires who wanted to keep more of their profits from selling stocks and real estate.

“If you earn a million dollars a year or more, the tax rate on your long-term capital gains will be 28 percent under my plan,” Ms. Harris said in that campaign speech this fall. “Because we know when the government encourages investment, it leads to broad-based economic growth.”

The moment stuck out. In remarks that her campaign had pitched as a major address to the middle class, Ms. Harris offered a striking concession on tax rates for the wealthy — an olive branch that she used to present herself as more business friendly than President Biden, who had sought a higher rate.

https://www.nytimes.com/2024/11/09/us/p ... onomy.html

[jfish26]

Where are you getting "trickle-down economic messaging" from?

When Vice President Kamala Harris traveled to a locally owned brewery in New Hampshire to talk about helping small businesses — a major plank of her economic platform — she made sure that one group of Americans felt included: millionaires who wanted to keep more of their profits from selling stocks and real estate.

“If you earn a million dollars a year or more, the tax rate on your long-term capital gains will be 28 percent under my plan,” Ms. Harris said in that campaign speech this fall. “Because we know when the government encourages investment, it leads to broad-based economic growth.”

The moment stuck out. In remarks that her campaign had pitched as a major address to the middle class, Ms. Harris offered a striking concession on tax rates for the wealthy — an olive branch that she used to present herself as more business friendly than President Biden, who had sought a higher rate.

https://www.nytimes.com/2024/11/09/us/p ... onomy.html

Ok, now do the entire rest of her economic message.

She lost for many reasons. I do not think that Reaganonmics was one of them.

[BiggDick]

well, yea, like you said, it was the entire rest of her economic message - a little Reagany, a little progressivey, a little small businessy, a little wall streety, a little incoherently all over the place.

I think that as a whole was more of a reason for loosing than any single one thing.

but, I also think any amount of Reagany at all was not a good look, especially when Trump was otherwise winning the "stand up for average joes against the establishment" sort of fight, at least in terms of messaging (not actual substance)

[pdub]

Where are you getting "trickle-down economic messaging" from?

https://www.nytimes.com/2024/11/09/us/p ... onomy.html

Ok, now do the entire rest of her economic message.

She lost for many reasons. I do not think that Reaganonmics was one of them.

This is where I remind you, as a web developer, it is very important where you place your text - it should be very mindful and planned. On her website, on the issues page where I have sent you before, her first topic is building an opportunity economy where she specifically talks about tax cuts for the middle class and increased taxes for the wealthy.

"Unlike Donald Trump, Vice President Harris and Governor Walz are committed to ensuring no one earning less than $400,000 a year will pay more in taxes. They believe that we need to chart a New Way Forward by both making our tax system fairer and prioritizing investment and innovation. They will ensure the wealthiest Americans and the largest corporations pay their fair share, so we can take action to build up the middle class while reducing the deficit. This includes rolling back Trump’s tax cuts for the wealthiest Americans, enacting a billionaire minimum tax, quadrupling the tax on stock buybacks, and other reforms to ensure the very wealthy are playing by the same rules as the middle class. Under her plan, the tax rate on long-term capital gains for those earning a million dollars a year or more will be 28 percent, because when the government encourages investment, it leads to broad-based economic growth and creates jobs, which makes our economy stronger."

https://kamalaharris.com/issues/

[BiggDick]

Yea, like I said, all over the place.

[jfish26]

Ok, now do the entire rest of her economic message.

She lost for many reasons. I do not think that Reaganonmics was one of them.

This is where I remind you, as a web developer, it is very important where you place your text - it should be very mindful and planned. On her website, on the issues page where I have sent you before, her first topic is building an opportunity economy where she specifically talks about tax cuts for the middle class and increased taxes for the wealthy.

"Unlike Donald Trump, Vice President Harris and Governor Walz are committed to ensuring no one earning less than $400,000 a year will pay more in taxes. They believe that we need to chart a New Way Forward by both making our tax system fairer and prioritizing investment and innovation. They will ensure the wealthiest Americans and the largest corporations pay their fair share, so we can take action to build up the middle class while reducing the deficit. This includes rolling back Trump’s tax cuts for the wealthiest Americans, enacting a billionaire minimum tax, quadrupling the tax on stock buybacks, and other reforms to ensure the very wealthy are playing by the same rules as the middle class. Under her plan, the tax rate on long-term capital gains for those earning a million dollars a year or more will be 28 percent, because when the government encourages investment, it leads to broad-based economic growth and creates jobs, which makes our economy stronger."

https://kamalaharris.com/issues/

I'm just wondering how much any prospective economic message could have mattered.

In hindsight, it seems clear that there should have been exactly one economic message: Covid inflation was Trump's fault. Make Trump the incumbent who suffers the same backlash that all incumbent parties suffered in 2023-24.

[jfish26]

(FYI, all, it's been a week since Russia actively and directly interfered with an American election for President, and no one appears to care.)

[MICHHAWK]

i don't follow. so, if you don't mind. can you spend the rest of this day. and maybe some of the next. telling us all about it.

everything you know.

[DeletedUser]

(FYI, all, it's been a week since Russia actively and directly interfered with an American election for President, and no one appears to care.)

I care.

But I wonder what exactly we can/should do about it?

[jfish26]

(FYI, all, it's been a week since Russia actively and directly interfered with an American election for President, and no one appears to care.)

I care.

But I wonder what exactly we can/should do about it?

I think - on this and lots of other things - some people inside government need to find some courage between now and January 20.

That's courage that I don't know that I'd have.

[BiggDick]

I was gonna say I care and what should we do but the saw illy asked just that.

Re: make Trump the incumbent who suffers, I think this slowly increasing inequality and concentration of wealth and degradation of the basic material conditions of average folks is less unique less to any one administration, and more to the system itself.

But, I do think the American people will continue to blame not the system but administrations, as challenger campaigns leverage the talking points of “look at how yer economic conditions have struggled under this dood”

That’s why I posted my theory that we could see the challenger having a certain momentum going forward, rather than the traditional adage of the incumbent having the momentum.

[jfish26]

Re: make Trump the incumbent who suffers, I think this slowly increasing inequality and concentration of wealth and degradation of the basic material conditions of average folks is less unique less to any one administration, and more to the system itself.

I agree with this.

But there simply is not a very good argument - I was thinking about going so far as to say there is not a rational basis - for thinking that Trump is better on this issue than Harris would have been.

[BiggDick]

Oh totally.

Both major party candidates effectively serve the system far more than the average folks.

I suppose the difference to distinguish is, apparently Trump won the messaging game. The average folks wanna hear from someone who (at least) says they’re taking on the establishment, rather than one who comparatively says the establishment is doing fine

[jfish26]

Oh totally.

Both major party candidates effectively serve the system far more than the average folks.

I suppose the difference to distinguish is, apparently Trump won the messaging game. The average folks wanna hear from someone who (at least) says they’re taking on the establishment, rather than one who comparatively says the establishment is doing fine

I still think this doesn’t get at the heart of the issue.

The heart of the issue generally isn’t the differences between how candidates would solve a problem, but rather the scope and cause of the problem in the first place. The assumptions, in other words, that are baked into the analysis of how to solve the problem.

The heart of this particular issue is probably not a lot more complicated (at a macro level) than - people blame the government for increased prices, but congratulate themselves for increased wages.

I will say - even though I shouldn’t have to - that of COURSE broad-based statistics that show that under Biden wages have increased faster than inflation, do not mean that there aren’t many many many many specific examples where that isn’t the case.

[KUTradition]

NewRepublic:

On Election Day and in the hours following, searches for “how to change my vote” spiked in states that the president-elect won, according to Google analytics. The searches first surged the morning of Election Day before declining the day afterward. Interest in the phrase was not short-lived, though, with numbers climbing again on Monday—just shy of a week out from the election—and continuing to grow throughout the week. The apparent change of heart comes after Trump allies had admitted Project 2025 was the plan all along, and after women and girls became the target of an overtly misogynistic, far-right campaign claiming ownership of their bodies.

The search became so popular that it hit 100, according to Google Trends, which registers searched phrases on a scale of 0 to 100, with 100 indicating the peak popularity for a term.

Some of the states that Trump won by the biggest margins, such as Iowa, generated the highest number of state-by-state queries for the term. Those searches were concentrated around the Des Moines-Ames, Cedar Rapids-Waterlook-Iowa City, and Dubuque areas in the Hawkeye State, which already had a large portion of votes for Vice President Kamala Harris, according to Virginia news outlet WAVY. It is not clear, though, whether Trump or Harris supporters were hoping to change their vote...

civic duty…smfh