Recruiting

[BiggDick]

Yeah, there's no way any 5 star big is looking at Clemence as some sort of hurdle to minutes at KU. Bidunga is out there reminding these recruits that if you're better than the established guy that Self will give you the minutes.

I kinda wonder if Clemence is around next year.

If he doesn't actually do anything again this year, kinda feels like a transfer/senior transfer to go get more minutes at like Santa Barbara kinda sitch.

And/or maybe Self just really likes stuff he does in practice.

[pdub]

Storr reportedly got 1 million dollars so yea, Furphy, if he stayed, i'd put around that number.

yea, prob around that number.

But, I'd still much rather have the $6 mil guaranteed with the option for a couple mil more yet, than around that number.

We've talked about this.
Furphy very likely* lost multiple millions by entering the draft last year.
Had he been picked at, say, 18th in 2025 - very reasonable - he'd have made over 8 million dollars more in his first four years playing.

*I said very likely not 100%. I don't need the arguments coming back saying that "well who knows if he'd be 18th". I'm extremely confident he'd have been in that range considering A. he was rumored to be in that range THIS season by some and B. how Self players have progressed at that position. So if you want to respond to this argument taking that point, I won't bother with it.

If the argument is still, well, i'd just rather take the 6 million guaranteed regardless, I get that.
But there's no doubt he very ( super bold on very ) likely lost multiple millions for his lifetime with that decision.

[DeletedUser]

Yeah, there's no way any 5 star big is looking at Clemence as some sort of hurdle to minutes at KU. Bidunga is out there reminding these recruits that if you're better than the established guy that Self will give you the minutes.

I kinda wonder if Clemence is around next year.

If he doesn't actually do anything again this year, kinda feels like a transfer/senior transfer to go get more minutes at like Santa Barbara kinda sitch.

And/or maybe Self just really likes stuff he does in practice.

He already transferred once (after likely being forced out). He then ASKED to come back. He wants to be at KU regardless of playing time.

Self won't force him out again (imo). I think Clemence is happy in a limited role at KU. And we've had multiple guys play his role and still make a little money overseas after college, so it's not like being at KU is a death sentence to his basketball future (even though it's limited).

[KUTradition]

practice squad could always use a guy like that

[DeletedUser]

Storr reportedly got 1 million dollars so yea, Furphy, if he stayed, i'd put around that number.

yea, prob around that number.

But, I'd still much rather have the $6 mil guaranteed with the option for a couple mil more yet, than around that number.

We've talked about this.
Furphy very likely* lost multiple millions by entering the draft last year.
Had he been picked at, say, 18th in 2025 - very reasonable - he'd have made over 8 million dollars more in his first four years playing.

*I said very likely not 100%. I don't need the arguments coming back saying that "well who knows if he'd be 18th". I'm extremely confident he'd have been in that range considering A. he was rumored to be in that range THIS season by some and B. how Self players have progressed at that position. So if you want to respond to this argument taking that point, I won't bother with it.

If the argument is still, well, i'd just rather take the 6 million guaranteed regardless, I get that.
But there's no doubt he very ( super bold on very ) likely lost multiple millions for his lifetime with that decision.

Very likely.

Especially seeing what we've seen through the early part of this NBA season.

The money is close enough. And he surpasses it after 1 or 2 more years at KU anyway if he works himself into the top 10 or 15 in the draft whenever he turned pro.

[BiggDick]

I don't disagree that he could have came back and gone higher in the draft, especially considering Self's track record on these things. Furphy was already projecting as high/almost as high as 18th in this year's draft anyway, so pointing to that number is kind of a double-edged sword here. That he slipped on draft night only came to be known with hindsight.

I think the old "bird in a hand is worth two in the bush" adage applies. Or, to point to some wisdom they hammered in business school (look at me using my KU degree now!), "A dollar today is worth more than a dollar tomorrow." I think $6-8 mil right now is arguably worth more than maybe another $8 mil in a year. If Furphy forgoes that $6-8 mil to instead come back but gets hurt and and never plays the same again, he's pretty SIL. If you wanna argue the likelihood of a career-altering/ending injury tho, I'd be curious about that.

as far as "multiple millions for his lifetime," I think that becomes more a question of what subsequent contract/s he signs, which in itself is a question of whether he might develop better in another year at a lesser level with comparatively limited time spent on basketball, versus a year that much sooner at the highest level with fewer/no limits to time spent on basketball. And about all that, I dunno.

[pdub]

I don't disagree that he could have came back and gone higher in the draft, especially considering Self's track record on these things. Furphy was already projecting as high/almost as high as 18th in this year's draft anyway, so pointing to that number is kind of a double-edged sword here. That he slipped on draft night only came to be known with hindsight.

I think the old "bird in a hand is worth two in the bush" adage applies. Or, to point to some wisdom they hammered in business school (look at me using my KU degree now!), "A dollar today is worth more than a dollar tomorrow." I think $6-8 mil right now is arguably worth more than maybe another $8 mil in a year. If Furphy forgoes that $6-8 mil to instead come back but gets hurt and and never plays the same again, he's pretty SIL. If you wanna argue the likelihood of a career-altering/ending injury tho, I'd be curious about that.

as far as "multiple millions for his lifetime," I think that becomes more a question of what subsequent contract/s he signs, which in itself is a question of whether he might develop better in another year at a lesser level with comparatively limited time spent on basketball, versus a year that much sooner at the highest level with fewer/no limits to time spent on basketball. And about all that, I dunno.

He very likely already lost 8+ million for his lifetime and that's at a conservative estimate ( maybe he goes lotto and then, in that case, you're looking at quite a bit more with an almost guaranteed 5th year ).

Limited time spent on basketball bc he's in 'college' is a joke now.
You could argue, because he's not traveling 40 times a season, that he might get to touch the basketball more while he's in college.
There's also something to be said about being THE GUY ( or in this case, 1B to Hunter 1A ) and stepping into that role.

[BiggDick]

Yea.

But he was reasonably able to expect that 8+ million already in this draft! I'm not sure we can argue hindsight.

Kinda ironic you picked precisely 18th for your example here.

Cuz...

https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/n ... at%206%2D9.

Furphy is a projected first-round pick in the 2024 NBA draft whose draft status continues to rise given his size for a shooting guard/small forward at 6-9. He is the projected No. 18 pick to Orlando in USA TODAY Sports’ post-NBA Finals mock draft. Besides the draft combine in Chicago, Furphy has worked out for seven teams, including several in the Nos. 9-20 first-round range.

[BiggDick]

I do like the "THE GUY" argument.

Cuz, don't get me wrong, I wish he came back too!

But I'm also a realistic enough fan, of both KU specifically and hoops in general, to have recognized that within the first few games of him starting for us he looked like a OAD talent.

[pdub]

He wasn't really.
You get guarantees from teams that they're gonna pick you lotto.
He was kinda all over the place.

18 in 2025 is a conservative estimate imo.

[BiggDick]

the "40 times" argument sucks tho cuz he's traveling 40 times AS A PROFESSIONAL BASKETBALL PLAYER. What else do you think he's doing?

Let's not pretend he's spending all his time and energy on these 40 trips just throwing a tantrum in the hotel lobby about no early checkin.

[pdub]

My single argument here is that he lost money over the long term ( and even short term if you're talking within the next 2 years ) entering the draft last season.
I don't think there's much an argument against that.

[BiggDick]

OK.

I don't think there's much an argument for that, either.

[pdub]

the "40 times" argument sucks tho cuz he's traveling 40 times AS A PROFESSIONAL BASKETBALL PLAYER. What else do you think he's doing?

Let's not pretend he's spending all his time and energy on these 40 trips just throwing a tantrum in the hotel lobby about no early checkin.

Tell me how that improves his skillset on another 4 hour flight with a quick walk through before sitting on the bench for back to back games.

[pdub]

OK.

I don't think there's much an argument for that, either.

Done with you today.
Have fun.

[BiggDick]

"But why stay in the draft when you're projected 18th when you could come back and make less money on a one-year NIL deal cuz maybe you'll be projected 18th next year too!"

if that was my argument, yea I'd be done too.

[BiggDick]

the "40 times" argument sucks tho cuz he's traveling 40 times AS A PROFESSIONAL BASKETBALL PLAYER. What else do you think he's doing?

Let's not pretend he's spending all his time and energy on these 40 trips just throwing a tantrum in the hotel lobby about no early checkin.

Tell me how that improves his skillset on another 4 hour flight with a quick walk through before sitting on the bench for back to back games.

I can actually dig this argument.

Tho as an actual pro he presumably spends way more time as a whole just on hoops, but more traveling is more travel time, and more travel time is spent time less on hoops.

I suppose we can weigh that against, say, only 20 or so a half donut as many trips (to away or neutral sites) as a college player, and while he has to deal with things like class, that's mostly online with tutors available anyway so let's face it they prob don't actually spend a ton of time on schoolwork, and limits to coaches/training but they can still go get private trainers anyway.

Don't get me wrong, like I said, I can actually dig.

[DeletedUser]

He wasn't really.

Exactly.

He went 35th. So whatever projections talking heads came up with, were wrong and not based on real talks with actual front offices.

And newsflash, front offices don't tell the media who they are drafting before the draft very often, unless they are the #1 pick.

Working out for "teams 9-20" doesn't guarantee being drafted by any of those teams. They work out dozens of guys.

He got a little buzz and listened to some bad info if he thought he was guaranteed 18th or sooner.



Sidenote: this is where JFish reminds us that Furphy being a non citizen could impact his ability to collect the same NIL opportunities. So all my conclusions are based on the assumption he could receive market level NIL even as a non citizen (which i don't know for sure to be true).

[BiggDick]

Still arguing hindsight.

For that matter tho, the entire rest of this argument is prospective.

For all we know, he could have slipped to 35th in 2025 too.

While I would have been thrilled to have him back, I think it's win/win. Furphy got paid, KU put another wing in the league, and still has a stacked roster this year regardless.

[randylahey]

if Griffen and Storr are both back i think that means we had a disappointing year.....for Kansas standards anyway

I don't know. It's a new era. If they're not first rounders, the money is better at KU.

Storr seems undersized for an NBA wing and not a good enough shooter to be a 2.

Griffen, maybe. His size and shooting make him more draftable.

Agree with all of this. Storr has not shown enough shooting to be drafted. NIL for top college is a better gig than 2nd round or going undrafted

Griffen has all the tools of a prototypical nba 3 and D guy