Today In: FAFO

[KUTradition]

https://www.dni.gov/nctc/groups/hamas.html

https://www.cfr.org/backgrounder/what-hamas

https://www.wilsoncenter.org/article/doctrine-hamas

[DeletedUser]

I'm not sure Hamas would have ever been a thing if NOT for the U.S. (and U.S.-allied) militancy to begin with.

Huh?

You think the US is why HAMAS hates Jews and wants to take over Israel?

[KUTradition]

I'm not sure Hamas would have ever been a thing if NOT for the U.S. (and U.S.-allied) militancy to begin with.

Huh?

You think the US is why HAMAS hates Jews and wants to take over Israel?

it’s such an incredibly shallow and inadequate knowledge/view of the world and its history

[BiggDick]

I'm not sure Hamas would have ever been a thing if NOT for the U.S. (and U.S.-allied) militancy to begin with.

Huh?

You think the US is why HAMAS hates Jews and wants to take over Israel?

in large part....yes?

[DeletedUser]

The first Jewish settlers arrived to Ottoman Palestine in approximately 1882 (based on less than a minute or two of my research).


Aren't you embarrassed to do this day after day?

[TDub]

I'm just trying to track today's trajectory

so, if i have this right. Extremist Muslims hate Jewish people because of America? Do i have this right?



It has nothing to do with the Jewish tribes in Arabian lands rejecting Mohammed as their leader and prophet circa the 7th century?

[DeletedUser]

It has nothing to do with the Jewish tribes in Arabian lands rejecting Mohammed as their leader and prophet circa the 7th century?

Is this like when we won the revolutionary war by controlling the airports?

[BiggDick]

why only go back only to approximately 1882?

Or only to the 7th century?

One religious and/or ethnic group or another, often more, have been fighting over this area since literally the dawn of civilization. That hasn't changed.

There have even been empires from near- to even far-reaching corners of the world who have meddled in the area throughout the course of history. That hasn't changed.

What HAS changed, is the United States specifically has become the far-reaching empire du jour to take an interest in meddling in the area, using one of those religious/ethnic groups who have historically fought over the area as allies, to perpetrate some of/perhaps thee most violent extremism the area has historically ever known.

So, to clarify the previous answer to the question, I very much do think the U.S., and our ongoing supply of the weapons the Israelis use against Palestinians to continue to displace and occupy areas previously known as Palestine not to mention advance other U.S. interests, is very much in large part why "Hamas hates the Jews and wants to take over Israel"

[DeletedUser]

K

[TDub]

why only go back only to approximately 1882?

Or only to the 7th century?

One religious and/or ethnic group or another, often more, have been fighting over this area since literally the dawn of civilization. That hasn't changed.

There have even been empires from near- to even far-reaching corners of the world who have meddled in the area throughout the course of history. That hasn't changed.

What HAS changed, is the United States specifically has become the far-reaching empire du jour to take an interest in meddling in the area, using one of those religious/ethnic groups who have historically fought over the area as allies, to perpetrate some of/perhaps thee most violent extremism the area has historically ever known.

So, to clarify the previous answer to the question, I very much do think the U.S., and our ongoing supply of the weapons the Israelis use against Palestinians to continue to displace and occupy areas previously known as Palestine not to mention advance other U.S. interests, is very much in large part why "Hamas hates the Jews and wants to take over Israel"

because we were talking about Muslims and Jewish peoples. Islam came about sometime in the 7th century (thought to be around 610) when the prophet Mohammed received his revelation in a cave and began spreading Islam throughout the Arabic region. Jewish peoples rejected this revelation and rejected Mohammed as their prophet and chose not to deviate from their traditional teachings that the biblical patriarch was Abraham dating back to sometime around 1800BC.

That's when the tension and fighting began.

That's why we go to the 7th century.

[BiggDick]

I see. Thanks for the clarification.

The thing is, the "tension and fighting" in this area began long before Islam was even a thing, too.

And even if we point specifically to the 7th century and the creation of Islam as when the tension and fighting specifically (and obviously) between Muslims and Jews began, it also seems like a pretty huge oversimplification to jump all the way from then to now, and also to just kinda shrug off as inevitable or something the U.S. (overwhelmingly militant) involvement in the area in more modern times. Lots of shit gone down in between.

Speaking of, and as far as relevant dates in this area, pretty sure 1917 is a very big one too.

[TDub]

the root cause of conflict between religious extremists in the Arab world isn't America.

The end. I refuse to do the lil turn on the catwalk with you any further today.

[twocoach]

This Israel vs. Palestine thing has just become another case of virtue signaling in the US. If you're not against Israel then you're pro-genocide. If you're not against Hamas then you're pro-terrorism. The reality is that we have to deal with the shitty situation despite the shitty people we have to deal with to do it. None of the options are good and none of the outcomes can possibly be seen as anything more than temporary. It's as much f a Lose-Lose as there can be so making it some sort of political issue in an election is pointless. There is nothing that Trump is going to do that is any better than what Biden has done. It sucks all around.

So me not paying much attention to it isn't that "I don't care about genocide" or "I just want to minimize it because a Dem is in the White House". It's that it is tragic and horrible and there are no winners in any of it so I just have to turn away from it to avoid wanting to puke over the insanity of it all.

[BiggDick]

oh. Root causes?

I thought the question was whether the US is why Hamas hates the Jews and wants to take over Israel.

But you zoomed out even more yet, to root cause.

I think the root cause, then, is obviously imperialism.

And things that are so inevitably intertwined with imperialism, like: xenophobia, and ethnic supremacy, and religious threads making you dumb, and control of resources, and such.

[DeletedUser]

the root cause of conflict between religious extremists in the Arab world isn't America.

The end.

[KUTradition]

and he wonders why he gets ridiculed so

smfh

[Overlander]

It just doesn’t end.