Let’s have a war!

[KUTradition]

you should go

[KUTradition]

https://www.politico.eu/article/europe- ... erference/

[jfish26]

https://www.politico.eu/article/europe- ... erference/

Reaganite MICH is going to be so disappointed when he meets Trumpist MICH.

[twocoach]

https://www.politico.eu/article/europe- ... erference/

Reaganite MICH is going to be so disappointed when he meets Trumpist MICH.

It's amazing how Trump and Russia have convinced tens of millions of US citizens that Russia is nothing to worry about and "not their problem". It's completely insane. Like if we just left Russia alone they wouldn't do anything to us. Fucking morons.

[BiggDick]

Like if we just left Russia alone they wouldn't do anything to us.

...go on!

[jfish26]

https://www.politico.eu/article/europe- ... erference/

Reaganite MICH is going to be so disappointed when he meets Trumpist MICH.

It's amazing how Trump and Russia have convinced tens of millions of US citizens that Russia is nothing to worry about and "not their problem". It's completely insane. Like if we just left Russia alone they wouldn't do anything to us. Fucking morons.

That crashed DHL cargo jet is (possibly) ominous.

As is Russian state TV running Melania nudes.

As is Russia pretty goddamn openly (this time) interfering in our election.

As is Russia launching strategic-nuke-capable IRBMs at Ukraine.

They are going out of their way to show who (as between Putin and Trump) is boss.

And that is before Trump is even at the helm.

I think we can, and unfortunately should, expect significant Russian and Russian-backed misdeeds directed at us and our (soon-to-be-former) allies, which will involve Putin more or less daring the United States - daring Trump - to do something about it.

Which, we won't. In fact, Trump will parrot the substance of whatever bullshit pretext Putin offers, as fact, through quasi-state-media.

And in response, our allies will (quite justifiably!) stop sharing intelligence information with us, which in turn will make us both less safe AND less powerful.

I hold so, so much contempt for those who, from education and/or experience, know this - and who still think what's about to happen is worth it.

[Overlander]

"And in response, our allies will (quite justifiably!) stop sharing intelligence information with us, which in turn will make us both less safe AND less powerful."

This will be our undoing.

[jfish26]

"And in response, our allies will (quite justifiably!) stop sharing intelligence information with us, which in turn will make us both less safe AND less powerful."

This will be our undoing.

And the MICHs of the world guffaw along, as if the world order that has served them and their children and grandchildren so well is more than ten minutes old, historically.

[Overlander]

"And in response, our allies will (quite justifiably!) stop sharing intelligence information with us, which in turn will make us both less safe AND less powerful."

This will be our undoing.

And the MICHs of the world guffaw along, as if the world order that has served them and their children and grandchildren so well is more than ten minutes old, historically.

Yep.

[BiggDick]

I'm tempted to try asking - again - what exactly you guys envision as far as some resetting of this whole "world order" thing, but considering no one's ever even attempted to respond to prior attempts, to ask again would prob just be futile.

[jfish26]

I'm tempted to try asking - again - what exactly you guys envision as far as some resetting of this whole "world order" thing, but considering no one's ever even attempted to respond to prior attempts, to ask again would prob just be futile.

What is the question exactly?

[BiggDick]

what do you think some new world order, that is NOT dominated by "The West" generally and/or the United States specifically, would look like?

[jfish26]

"And in response, our allies will (quite justifiably!) stop sharing intelligence information with us, which in turn will make us both less safe AND less powerful."

This will be our undoing.

And the MICHs of the world guffaw along, as if the world order that has served them and their children and grandchildren so well is more than ten minutes old, historically.

Yep.

It's amazing, too, that the same people who will tell you that a dogmatic anti-immigration stance is justified because prosperity is a zero sum game, fail to account (in a zero sum game world) for just how privileged we've been as the queen on the chessboard of that game.

Giving up our queen powers is going to come at a profound cost. A cost that is orders of magnitude worse than even the false-reality conjured to stir up anti-immigrant bile.

[jfish26]

what do you think some new world order, that is NOT dominated by "The West" generally and/or the United States specifically, would look like?

I don't think there's a single answer.

There is a wide, wide range of outcomes.

If you were to divide the outcomes into quartiles, then I think the second quartile has the US looking something like Russia does today, and the third quartile has the US looking something like the UK does today.

But that might be overly optimistic.

I think it won't be long into Trump II that something happens that requires us to side with Russia or with the UK/Europe. If nothing else, what we do then will narrow the range of possible outcomes.

[twocoach]

what do you think some new world order, that is NOT dominated by "The West" generally and/or the United States specifically, would look like?

It's impossible to answer that without knowing who then holds the power and what they did to achieve that.

[Overlander]

And the MICHs of the world guffaw along, as if the world order that has served them and their children and grandchildren so well is more than ten minutes old, historically.

Yep.

It's amazing, too, that the same people who will tell you that a dogmatic anti-immigration stance is justified because prosperity is a zero sum game, fail to account (in a zero sum game world) for just how privileged we've been as the queen on the chessboard of that game.

Giving up our queen powers is going to come at a profound cost. A cost that is orders of magnitude worse than even the false-reality conjured to stir up anti-immigrant bile.

Trump says he plans to deport 1 million undocumented, starting with criminals ("at first"-his words). There are about 183,000 undocumented currently in US prisons / Jails and another 20k or so awaiting trial. I doubt many of us here would be against deportation of the CONVICTED criminals, and most of us probably support people arrested on REAL criminal charges also being deported.

So, that is less than 200,000 enroute to their home countries. Which begs the question, where are we getting the other 800,000 people?

Oh, and this is the FIRST year.

[jfish26]

Yep.

It's amazing, too, that the same people who will tell you that a dogmatic anti-immigration stance is justified because prosperity is a zero sum game, fail to account (in a zero sum game world) for just how privileged we've been as the queen on the chessboard of that game.

Giving up our queen powers is going to come at a profound cost. A cost that is orders of magnitude worse than even the false-reality conjured to stir up anti-immigrant bile.

Trump says he plans to deport 1 million undocumented, starting with criminals ("at first"-his words). There are about 183,000 undocumented currently in US prisons and another 20k or so awaiting trial. I doubt many of us here would be against deportation of the CONVICTED criminals, and most of us probably support people arrested on REAL criminal charges also being deported.

So, that is less than 200,000 enroute to their home countries. Which begs the question, where are we getting the other 800,000 people?

Oh, and this is the FIRST year.

It's fantasy to think we'll be able to send any meaningful number of illegal immigrants - including, perhaps especially, the criminal ones - back to where they actually came from.

I think the irrevocable horrors we're about to inflict on both human beings and our own reputation are not yet well understood. Especially if - as he should - Trump would consider inflation to be dangerous for the midterms and/or 2028.

[Overlander]

It's amazing, too, that the same people who will tell you that a dogmatic anti-immigration stance is justified because prosperity is a zero sum game, fail to account (in a zero sum game world) for just how privileged we've been as the queen on the chessboard of that game.

Giving up our queen powers is going to come at a profound cost. A cost that is orders of magnitude worse than even the false-reality conjured to stir up anti-immigrant bile.

Trump says he plans to deport 1 million undocumented, starting with criminals ("at first"-his words). There are about 183,000 undocumented currently in US prisons and another 20k or so awaiting trial. I doubt many of us here would be against deportation of the CONVICTED criminals, and most of us probably support people arrested on REAL criminal charges also being deported.

So, that is less than 200,000 enroute to their home countries. Which begs the question, where are we getting the other 800,000 people?

Oh, and this is the FIRST year.

It's fantasy to think we'll be able to send any meaningful number of illegal immigrants - including, perhaps especially, the criminal ones - back to where they actually came from.

I think the irrevocable horrors we're about to inflict on both human beings and our own reputation are not yet well understood. Especially if - as he should - Trump would consider inflation to be dangerous for the midterms and/or 2028.

Tell that to the mouth breathers.
Any suffering inflicted on people that don't look like/worship like / dress like/ etc. is worth the cost.

[jfish26]

Trump says he plans to deport 1 million undocumented, starting with criminals ("at first"-his words). There are about 183,000 undocumented currently in US prisons and another 20k or so awaiting trial. I doubt many of us here would be against deportation of the CONVICTED criminals, and most of us probably support people arrested on REAL criminal charges also being deported.

So, that is less than 200,000 enroute to their home countries. Which begs the question, where are we getting the other 800,000 people?

Oh, and this is the FIRST year.

It's fantasy to think we'll be able to send any meaningful number of illegal immigrants - including, perhaps especially, the criminal ones - back to where they actually came from.

I think the irrevocable horrors we're about to inflict on both human beings and our own reputation are not yet well understood. Especially if - as he should - Trump would consider inflation to be dangerous for the midterms and/or 2028.

Tell that to the mouth breathers.
Any suffering inflicted on people that don't look like/worship like / dress like/ etc. is worth the cost.

Which needs to be remembered, when we've turned millions of human beings into essentially prison labor, and politesse demands that at least some of Trump's supporters feign surprise.

[BiggDick]

I think the irrevocable horrors we're about to inflict on both human beings and our own reputation are not yet well understood.

waddya mean, "about to..."?

https://www.politico.eu/article/america ... bal-stage/


Tho, I'll agree, this country reelecting Trump is not likely to help our reputation internationally.