Misinformation

[jfish26]

Eh, you're not a source of information. Good grief.

Ok, sure.

But the personal dig was still just dumb.

I mean if you REALLY wanna stick it to me in this thread, you should rub my face in some example of me gullibly falling for misinformation, like that time you seemed to believe Democrats provide us universal healthcare just cuz they dropped it as a hollow talking point on their website.

You don't believe that the Democrats want all Americans to have access to affordable Healthcare? Isn't that what the Affordable Care Act/Obamacare is working towards?

Maybe I just don't read the right sources and I missed something.

If I recall correctly, the ACA is insufficiently progressive because (particularly without the individual mandate) it is not universal healthcare.

[twocoach]

Ok, sure.

But the personal dig was still just dumb.

I mean if you REALLY wanna stick it to me in this thread, you should rub my face in some example of me gullibly falling for misinformation, like that time you seemed to believe Democrats provide us universal healthcare just cuz they dropped it as a hollow talking point on their website.

You don't believe that the Democrats want all Americans to have access to affordable Healthcare? Isn't that what the Affordable Care Act/Obamacare is working towards?

Maybe I just don't read the right sources and I missed something.

If I recall correctly, the ACA is insufficiently progressive because (particularly without the individual mandate) it is not universal healthcare.

Then we're just down to arguing over the exact definition of "universal healthcare" and then bickering over semantics. I'll hard pass on that super fun activity.

[DeletedUser]

how intriguing.

What are you guys Holy Fuck-ing about now?

Kind of like you. Except you pull your own string....

LOL

I think Ousdahl talks just to talk. Out of boredom.

[BiggDick]

see, this is where it's been very intriguing all along.

if there IS some "corporate media that knowingly hyperinflates false crises" sort of elaborate misinformation campaign, let's flesh it out! I wanna know all about it!

But, despite repeatedly asking, the best explanation we got is some cryptic "bookmakers move the spread" sorts of CoyDC lulz.

What explanation are you looking for? I'm afraid, from the language in this post (intriguing; elaborate; campaign), that you're hoping for someone to advance some sort of conspiracy theory. Something that opens up the next set of conjuring words (cabal; elites; drinking children's blood).

That's not what I or anyone else is getting at.

It just comes back to this I guess.

It's, ah, right there in your post.

wut?

dude, you just gotta realize how "corporate media that knowingly inflates false crises" really does sound kinda kooky, maybe even, yes, a tad conspiratorial or something...tho I don't necessarily disagree!

But, the reason I asked to elaborate is cuz I'd like to see whether I agree. Cuz depending on the details, I just might. Or, depending on the details, it also sounds very much like something Lobster would say.

Recall lobster using that "corporate media that knowingly inflates false crises" kinda language, almost verbatim, in the covid thread.

but to keep dodging any attempt to elaborate on any details, and instead acting like "it just comes back to this" in some vague way, at this point reeks of some "if you have to ask you'll never know" kinda antagonistic bad-faith response.

it makes this seem like you either DO have details but you're suddenly sheepish about sharing them, or you don't actually have any details to share at all.

[BiggDick]

You don't believe that the Democrats want all Americans to have access to affordable Healthcare?

No, I don't.

Like I alrady suggested - and just trying to stay on topic here - I think Democrats adding "Universal Healthcare" as a buzzword on their website...might actually be worth discussing in this thread.

Isn't that what the Affordable Care Act/Obamacare is working towards?

More like...isn't that what the Affordable Care Act/Obamacare postured to be, when it was initially proposed like 15+ years ago, until Obama abandoned any chance at a single-payer option, and just let the law be written pretty much by the private-sector for-profit insurance companies themselves.

Maybe I just don't read the right sources and I missed something.

yea, maybe.

It can happen to all of us.

The important thing is to realize it can, and to avoid the partisan urge to think misinformation-producing sources are only a problem for the other side.

[twocoach]

You don't believe that the Democrats want all Americans to have access to affordable Healthcare?

No, I don't.

Like I alrady suggested - and just trying to stay on topic here - I think Democrats adding "Universal Healthcare" as a buzzword on their website...might actually be worth discussing in this thread.

Isn't that what the Affordable Care Act/Obamacare is working towards?

More like...isn't that what the Affordable Care Act/Obamacare postured to be, when it was initially proposed like 15+ years ago, until Obama abandoned any chance at a single-payer option, and just let the law be written pretty much by the private-sector for-profit insurance companies themselves.

Maybe I just don't read the right sources and I missed something.

yea, maybe.

It can happen to all of us.

The important thing is to realize it can, and to avoid the partisan urge to think misinformation-producing sources are only a problem for the other side.

So, Democrats don't support Medicare for All? Interesting...

https://jayapal.house.gov/2023/05/17/ja ... osponsors/

[BiggDick]

how'd that go, anyway? Did the act pass?

I think of it this way:

Universal healthcare is an issue that receives popular support among a majority of Americans. But rather than actually leverage that as best they can, Dems instead have avoided even campaigning on it. Instead, the DNC/Clinton Crime Family did whatever the hell they did to Bernie's '16 campaign, which would have otherwise offered it.

And though Kamala floated it during 2020 primaries, she didn't even touch it once she actually got to campaign for the big chair (and was desperate for a campaign-defining signature issue despite that)

if Dems DO support universal healthcare but can't figure out a way to get a bill passed despite popular support, it may be yet another example of just how useless Dems are.

[jfish26]

see, this is where it's been very intriguing all along.

if there IS some "corporate media that knowingly hyperinflates false crises" sort of elaborate misinformation campaign, let's flesh it out! I wanna know all about it!

But, despite repeatedly asking, the best explanation we got is some cryptic "bookmakers move the spread" sorts of CoyDC lulz.

What explanation are you looking for? I'm afraid, from the language in this post (intriguing; elaborate; campaign), that you're hoping for someone to advance some sort of conspiracy theory. Something that opens up the next set of conjuring words (cabal; elites; drinking children's blood).

That's not what I or anyone else is getting at.

It just comes back to this I guess.

wut?

dude, you just gotta realize how "corporate media that knowingly inflates false crises" really does sound kinda kooky, maybe even, yes, a tad conspiratorial or something...tho I don't necessarily disagree!

But, the reason I asked to elaborate is cuz I'd like to see whether I agree. Cuz depending on the details, I just might. Or, depending on the details, it also sounds very much like something Lobster would say.

Recall lobster using that "corporate media that knowingly inflates false crises" kinda language, almost verbatim, in the covid thread.

but to keep dodging any attempt to elaborate on any details, and instead acting like "it just comes back to this" in some vague way, at this point reeks of some "if you have to ask you'll never know" kinda antagonistic bad-faith response.

it makes this seem like you either DO have details but you're suddenly sheepish about sharing them, or you don't actually have any details to share at all.

What details are you wanting elaboration on?

Do I need to go identify examples of the the dozens, hundreds, thousands of corporate media stories that more or less amounted to "well the data says X, but the vibes here in this diner say Y"?

You are acting like something is being hidden from you. It is not.

[jfish26]

how'd that go, anyway? Did the act pass?

I think of it this way:

Universal healthcare is an issue that receives popular support among a majority of Americans. But rather than actually leverage that as best they can, Dems instead have avoided even campaigning on it. Instead, the DNC/Clinton Crime Family did whatever the hell they did to Bernie's '16 campaign, which would have otherwise offered it.

And though Kamala floated it during 2020 primaries, she didn't even touch it once she actually got to campaign for the big chair (and was desperate for a campaign-defining signature issue despite that)

if Dems DO support universal healthcare but can't figure out a way to get a bill passed despite popular support, it may be yet another example of just how useless Dems are.

Ah. So it's same, inane logic as your "the Dems lost the election because Biden didn't try hard enough to convince House Republicans to pass progressive legislation" schtick.

[MICHHAWK]

if you wanna get the straight poop. just watch msnbc like i do. they will never lead you astray.

[BiggDick]

sometimes I do wonder about where various posters are sourcing their information.

[BiggDick]

how'd that go, anyway? Did the act pass?

I think of it this way:

Universal healthcare is an issue that receives popular support among a majority of Americans. But rather than actually leverage that as best they can, Dems instead have avoided even campaigning on it. Instead, the DNC/Clinton Crime Family did whatever the hell they did to Bernie's '16 campaign, which would have otherwise offered it.

And though Kamala floated it during 2020 primaries, she didn't even touch it once she actually got to campaign for the big chair (and was desperate for a campaign-defining signature issue despite that)

if Dems DO support universal healthcare but can't figure out a way to get a bill passed despite popular support, it may be yet another example of just how useless Dems are.

Ah. So it's same, inane logic as your "the Dems lost the election because Biden didn't try hard enough to convince House Republicans to pass progressive legislation" schtick.

and yet, still nowhere near as inane as your "Dems lost the election because everything that doesn't fit the Dem narrative is misinformation" kinda schtick.

[jfish26]

how'd that go, anyway? Did the act pass?

I think of it this way:

Universal healthcare is an issue that receives popular support among a majority of Americans. But rather than actually leverage that as best they can, Dems instead have avoided even campaigning on it. Instead, the DNC/Clinton Crime Family did whatever the hell they did to Bernie's '16 campaign, which would have otherwise offered it.

And though Kamala floated it during 2020 primaries, she didn't even touch it once she actually got to campaign for the big chair (and was desperate for a campaign-defining signature issue despite that)

if Dems DO support universal healthcare but can't figure out a way to get a bill passed despite popular support, it may be yet another example of just how useless Dems are.

Ah. So it's same, inane logic as your "the Dems lost the election because Biden didn't try hard enough to convince House Republicans to pass progressive legislation" schtick.

and yet, still nowhere near as inane as your "Dems lost the election because everything that doesn't fit the Dem narrative is misinformation" kinda schtick.

That is not what I have said.

[BiggDick]

What details are you wanting elaboration on?

Do I need to go identify examples of the the dozens, hundreds, thousands of corporate media stories that more or less amounted to "well the data says X, but the vibes here in this diner say Y"?

You are acting like something is being hidden from you. It is not.

ok, that's your best response yet.

It makes me wonder why the vibes in a diner would be so different than what the data says.

I guess cuz misinformation? The corporate media telling them actually there's a crisis, data be damned?

Or could it be that once corporate media sticks a microphone in the face of diner patrons (and other average Joe working class americans at-large) they candidly admit really feel economically squeezed, despite whatever data says what. (and heck, this is presumably even among Americans who can afford to go eat a a diner!)

Like if one's own pocketbook is feeling lighter than it used to, dunno what good it does to argue otherwise.

More to the point for dems - to expect to win over working-class votes with this messaging like, "no that light pocketbook is actually just misinformation, cuz here look at data!", well, how'd that work out for Dems last month?

[BiggDick]

That is not what I have said.

so then, I guess we're back to where we started, cuz I was otherwise under the impression "corporate media knowingly hyperinflates false crises" was some example of misinformation, especially since it came up in the eponymous thread and everything.

[jfish26]

That is not what I have said.

so then, I guess we're back to where we started, cuz I was otherwise under the impression "corporate media knowingly hyperinflates false crises" was some example of misinformation, especially since it came up in the eponymous thread and everything.

As others have said well, holy fuck.

You are making this - I have to believe intentionally, because I don't think you are actually this dense - so much more complicated than it is.

Corporate media has chosen short-term economic incentives over journalism.

It did not START with Trump by any means, but corporate media getting high off ad and subscription dollars in 2016 - and giving Trump so much free airtime and the imprimatur of the legacy press - started the snowball rolling down the hill, and now we are buried and running out of oxygen.

[jfish26]

What details are you wanting elaboration on?

Do I need to go identify examples of the the dozens, hundreds, thousands of corporate media stories that more or less amounted to "well the data says X, but the vibes here in this diner say Y"?

You are acting like something is being hidden from you. It is not.

ok, that's your best response yet.

It makes me wonder why the vibes in a diner would be so different than what the data says.

I guess cuz misinformation? The corporate media telling them actually there's a crisis, data be damned?

Or could it be that once corporate media sticks a microphone in the face of diner patrons (and other average Joe working class americans at-large) they candidly admit really feel economically squeezed, despite whatever data says what. (and heck, this is presumably even among Americans who can afford to go eat a a diner!)

Like if one's own pocketbook is feeling lighter than it used to, dunno what good it does to argue otherwise.

More to the point for dems - to expect to win over working-class votes with this messaging like, "no that light pocketbook is actually just misinformation, cuz here look at data!", well, how'd that work out for Dems last month?

This is why I said in the other post that you clearly are not so dense that you CAN'T get it.

Because you're awfully close here!

I just think you need to zoom out from "last month" or even "this election cycle."

What you are seeing, all around you, is the exact and profoundly successful result of what Bannon put very simply:

The real opposition is the media. And the way to deal with them is to flood the zone with shit.

It turns out that, yes, a corporate media that loses the will to speak truth to power, and plays bookmaker instead, degrades our collective ability to distinguish truth from fiction.

[BiggDick]

thanks. now THAT is your best response yet.

I agree that the way media has treated Trump has been something less than actually legit journalism. And agree that their motivation is largely "getting high off ad and subscription dollars," so to speak.

These points stray from the initial use, though, of "corporate media knowingly inflates false crises," which was used less with regard to "short-term economic incentives over journalism," and more with regard to issues like inflation. We've gone from quite the A to B here.

re-reading the post/tweet that prompted this - "Media relentlessly created a fake inflation crisis, and Democrats didn’t reset the narrative."

I guess we could suggest the media relentlessly created a fake inflation crisis too is just out of some perceived ad and subscription dollars sort of incentive?

And - perhaps the bigger issue for dems is - why didn't they "reset the narrative," or somehow allow the narrative to become anything besides how great things like wages and net worth were all along.

ETA just saw your latest response. And, yea, maybe it's as simple as dems just comparatively struggle with the X's and O's of messaging and media, or, as the gameplan has sadly become, the "flooding the zone with shit," if you will.

And yea, maybe I'm foolish to think Dems might win again by simply running a likable candidate and/or an appealing platform.

[twocoach]

https://corp.oup.com/word-of-the-year/

And the Oxford Word of the Year 2024 is…
brain rot
(n.) Supposed deterioration of a person’s mental or intellectual state, especially viewed as a result of overconsumption of material (now particularly online content) considered to be trivial or unchallenging. Also: something characterized as likely to lead to such deterioration.

[jfish26]

thanks. now THAT is your best response yet.

I agree that the way media has treated Trump has been something less than actually legit journalism. And agree that their motivation is largely "getting high off ad and subscription dollars," so to speak.

These points stray from the initial use, though, of "corporate media knowingly inflates false crises," which was used less with regard to "short-term economic incentives over journalism," and more with regard to issues like inflation. We've gone from quite the A to B here.

re-reading the post/tweet that prompted this - "Media relentlessly created a fake inflation crisis, and Democrats didn’t reset the narrative."

I guess we could suggest the media relentlessly created a fake inflation crisis too is just out of some perceived ad and subscription dollars sort of incentive?

And - perhaps the bigger issue for dems is - why didn't they "reset the narrative," or somehow allow the narrative to become anything besides how great things like wages and net worth were all along.

ETA just saw your latest response. And, yea, maybe it's as simple as dems just comparatively struggle with the X's and O's of messaging and media, or, as the gameplan has sadly become, the "flooding the zone with shit," if you will.

And yea, maybe I'm foolish to think Dems might win again by simply running a likable candidate and/or an appealing platform.

I don't think we have a clear enough view yet, of what the next few years will be like, in order to really think about a strategy. Let alone tactics.

I think it's important to distinguish symptoms from the disease, though.

Any particular instance of bothsidesing is a symptom.

The disease is the more programmatic choice to let the customer be right, even where the customer is wrong.

That is a fine business choice. It is not a fine journalistic choice.

And so here we are.