Kamala! Fuck Yeah!

[BiggDick]

lol

3 fricking people!

I realize Kamala offered rhetoric like "what happened in Gaza is devastating, we cannot become numb," etc.

But I'm afraid that all rang hollow when she and Biden continued to give weapons package after weapons package to Israel anyway, as recently as two weeks ago.

That's like saying "all these houses burning down is devastating" as you continue to give gasoline and matches to the arsonists.

[jfish26]

You keep wanting, over and over and over again, to argue about something that is entirely beside the point.

Withholding a vote from Harris, over Gaza, is a childish thing to do.

[BiggDick]

wait...we were discussing a poll indicating a particular issue was actually a big deal after all for a particular group of voters in a particular election, but now we somehow landed back on your vote-shaming schtick.

If you're gonna call someone childish for not voting the same as you, then I think it's only fair to once again point out how undemocratic, even authoritarian, it is to expect everyone to vote the same as you.

[RainbowsandUnicorns]

"particular group". Particular group of what? Who/m?
604 out of over 150 million voters.
Decent chance a higher percentage of American adults shit in their pants today.
Yes, I'll give you that 29% is significant and noteworthy but the 71% is a "bigger deal" to me.
I can't help but wonder if the over 29% of ignorant fucks in this country who have been screaming "GENOCIDE" for the last 15 months are now happy or upset about the ceasefire.

[Shirley]

Founded in 2005 and based in Tustin, California, the Institute for Middle East Understanding (IMEU) is a pro-Palestinian non-profit organization that provides analysis and facts about Palestine and Palestinians. A “group of concerned Americans founded it.” It described its mission as “to provide journalists with quick access to information about Palestine and the Palestinians, as well as expert sources, both in the United States and in the Middle East.”

Personally, I'd rather hear the results of a poll done by an organization that doesn't have a vested interest in the results, i.e., isn't "pro-Palestinian".

I'm not saying that what they reported is false, but isn't it in their interest to elevate the importance of how "pro-Palestinian" Americans might have just fucked Democrats in the ass, and the lesson is, if you don't want it to happen again, even tho we know Trump and Republicans are worse, you better defer to our interests, or else.

[BiggDick]

good catch, Shirley.

I too have been wondering just how objective the poll, and the organization, really is.

I'm concerned tho that at least part of what you say might be backwards, and that actually, it's Democrats who fucked "pro-Palestinian" Americans in the ass.

I dunno if voters owe something to a political party. I kinda feel like it should be the other way around.

[RainbowsandUnicorns]

good catch, Shirley.

I too have been wondering just how objective the poll, and the organization, really is.

I'm concerned tho that at least part of what you say might be backwards, and that actually, it's Democrats who fucked "pro-Palestinian" Americans in the ass.

I dunno if voters owe something to a political party. I kinda feel like it should be the other way around.

I can't help but wonder what you think would have been any different in regards to Israel/Gaza if we had Trump or any other Republican President over the past 15 months.

3 questions in that regard and 2 questions that are somewhat related.
One might surprise you - that I am asking it.

I am asking these questions for Ousy and/or anyone else to answer....

I don't need you to answer them but I am curious as to how YOU would answer them - AND how you feel the majority of Americans would answer them. I will provide my answers later.

1. If October 6th/7th 2023 never happened, do you think Kamala Harris would be inaugurated on Monday?

2. Trump is contradiction to me. He believes in freedom of speech. That being said, do you think Trump would have supported the "Pro-Palestinian" "protests" escalating to the degree/s they did or would he have demanded the Democratic Governors and Mayors, as well as law enforcement, take harsh action against them?

3. Two part question and I am purposely phrasing/wording it the way I am so put that in to consideration when answering.
3a. On November 5th 2024, do you think a higher percentage of elected Democrats who held political offices were "pro Israel" more than "pro Palestine" or a higher percentage of elected Republicans who held political offices were "pro Israel" more than "pro Palestine"?
3b. On November 5th 2024, do you think a higher percentage of Democratic voters were "pro Israel" more than "pro Palestine" or a higher percentage of Republicans voters were "pro Israel" more than "pro Palestine"?

1B. Again, I am purposely wording this the way I am so put that in to consideration when answering.
It's 100% horrific to me the amount of Gazans who were anti-Hamas that have been killed by Israeli forces. The destruction of their homes and "infrastructure" too.
Do you feel it would be 100% horrific if it was that many Israeli people that were killed by Hamas and the same amount of destruction to their homes and "infrastructure" - or would you lean towards thinking/believing they got what they deserved because of the "crimes" they have committed against "Palestine" and the "Palestinian" people?

2B. Do you believe Israel was/is committing Genocide against Gaza?



* My answers......
1. MY answer - NO
Most people's answer - NO

2. MY answer - I do not think he would have supported them and I do think he would have been harsh on Democratic Governors/mayors/ and demanded law enforcement "enforce" to a greater extent.
Most people's answer - See my answer.

3a. MY answer - Pubs
Most people's answer - Tie

3b. My answer - Pubs
Most people's answer - Dems

1B. My answer - Yes, I feel it would be horrific. No, I don't think they would have gotten what they deserved.
Most people's answer - I like to think it would be similar to mine but I believe way too many people would answer the opposite.

2B. My answer - No
Most people's answer - Yes. "Most" being around 66.6%.

[jfish26]

wait...we were discussing a poll indicating a particular issue was actually a big deal after all for a particular group of voters in a particular election, but now we somehow landed back on your vote-shaming schtick.

If you're gonna call someone childish for not voting the same as you, then I think it's only fair to once again point out how undemocratic, even authoritarian, it is to expect everyone to vote the same as you.

I'm not calling anyone childish for not voting the same as me. Nor am expecting everyone to vote the same as me.

My issue isn't with people who don't vote the same as me.

It's with people who, in the context of a fundamentally-binary choice that needs to be made in the real world, cast their vote in a manner that does not support the one candidate (of two viable ones) who actually better-serves (than the other candidate) their stated principles.

[twocoach]

The day that Biden came out and said that he was hiring a black woman for Vice President, he slapped a DEI label on Harris' forehead that she could never shake. All the MICH's and JKs of the world were allowed to instantly discredit her no matter what she actually accomplished, past or present.

Now we have Trump, whose entire Cabinet is being filled with MAGA DEI hires. Hegseth accomplishes nothing more than being a Major in the National Guard while being a drunk on the job and a womanizer? No problem. He's a rank of an 'O4' on a scale of O1-010. A O10 is a 4 star general, who had to spend thousands of hours reading hundreds of books and classes on military tactics and global geopolitical situations. Hegseth gets nominated solely because he is a white male who will do whatever Trump tells him to do. Period.

NOT ONE person who has bitched about DEI policies here has had a single complaint about these MAGA DEI hires.

[KUTradition]

because they’re, on the whole, unserious and disingenuous people

[jfish26]

The day that Biden came out and said that he was hiring a black woman for Vice President, he slapped a DEI label on Harris' forehead that she could never shake. All the MICH's and JKs of the world were allowed to instantly discredit her no matter what she actually accomplished, past or present.

Now we have Trump, whose entire Cabinet is being filled with MAGA DEI hires. Hegseth accomplishes nothing more than being a Major in the National Guard while being a drunk on the job and a womanizer? No problem. He's a rank of an 'O4' on a scale of O1-010. A O10 is a 4 star general, who had to spend thousands of hours reading hundreds of books and classes on military tactics and global geopolitical situations. Hegseth gets nominated solely because he is a white male who will do whatever Trump tells him to do. Period.

NOT ONE person who has bitched about DEI policies here has had a single complaint about these MAGA DEI hires.

My day-to-day tends to revolve around very long contracts, with entire glossaries of defined terms. So, if you wanted to, you could define "Blue" as meaning the color yellow.

There is a saying or adage that, if you let me draft the definitions, I'll let you draft the contract.

Anyway, "meritocracy" is a funny concept when you think about it.

[pdub]

If someone had strong feelings against the situation in Gaza and didn't vote for Trump or Harris we shouldn't be putting the blame of Trump being elected on that voter.

At least that's what I believe ( and believed well before this election ).

[jfish26]

If someone had strong feelings against the situation in Gaza and didn't vote for Trump or Harris we shouldn't be putting the blame of Trump being elected on that voter.

At least that's what I believe ( and believed well before this election ).

I get it.

But I think that falls apart a bit where (1) there are only two viable candidates, and (2) there is, as between those two candidates, one who is obviously and unquestionably better (for Gaza's interests) than the other.

In other words - if you want to be a single-issue voter, such is your prerogative; I've said many times that right now, I'm essentially a single-issue voter.

But I don't think it makes any sense at all to be a single-issue voter, and not cast that vote for the one candidate (of the two viable ones) who is obviously and unquestionably better (for your single issue) than the other, simply because the less-bad candidate (on that issue) is still some degree of bad (on that issue).

[pdub]

To me, blaming the voter ( who didn't vote for either major candidate ) for our shitty election process and the bumbling of the Democrats with their candidate(s) is like blaming Wayne Simien for the Bucknell loss.

Blaming the voter who voted for Trump on this shit show is like blaming JR Giddens for the Bucknell loss if JR Giddens had the stat line he did and then got into a knife fight on the court on our last possession.

[jfish26]

To me, blaming the voter ( who didn't vote for either major candidate ) for our shitty election process and the bumbling of the Democrats with their candidate(s) is like blaming Wayne Simien for the Bucknell loss.

Blaming the voter who voted for Trump on this shit show is like blaming JR Giddens for the Bucknell loss if JR Giddens had the stat line he did and then got into a knife fight on the court on our last possession.

Except Wayne Simien made the right decision and missed a shot. He didn't Chris Webber the landing; he just missed a shot.

A vote is a choice. A choice one makes in full view of how the process works.

And it seems extremely childish to me, if Gaza is your THING, to decline to vote for the one viable candidate (of two) who is clearly better (if still, in your opinion, bad) for Gaza's interests.

[twocoach]

To me, blaming the voter ( who didn't vote for either major candidate ) for our shitty election process and the bumbling of the Democrats with their candidate(s) is like blaming Wayne Simien for the Bucknell loss.

Blaming the voter who voted for Trump on this shit show is like blaming JR Giddens for the Bucknell loss if JR Giddens had the stat line he did and then got into a knife fight on the court on our last possession.

Except Wayne Simien made the right decision and missed a shot. He didn't Chris Webber the landing; he just missed a shot.

A vote is a choice. A choice one makes in full view of how the process works.

And it seems extremely childish to me, if Gaza is your THING, to decline to vote for the one viable candidate (of two) who is clearly better (if still, in your opinion, bad) for Gaza's interests.

Too many young voters simply vote on "you didn't do what I wanted you to do" even when what they wanted them to do was an absurd impossibility. Biden could not just tell Israel to get fucked because they were behaving as poorly as the terrorists who initiated the escalated situation.

[pdub]

Voting is a choice.
If Simien had sat out the final play because he didn't think KU stood a chance ( i.e. not even voting ) then you have a point.
Telling him he should have made that turnaround jumper because he's made it so many times in the past , it's a play he should finish ( the way you expected ) and he's the last guy on KU to attempt a shot is misguided.

The finger needs to be pointed at JR who just scored 2 points and stabbed someone.

( it's not a great analogy - basically people who voted for Trump can go fuck themselves and they are way more to blame for Trump getting elected than someone who did go out and vote but not for Kamala )

[jfish26]

Voting is a choice.
If Simien had sat out the final play because he didn't think KU stood a chance ( i.e. not even voting ) then you have a point.

The finger needs to be pointed at JR who just scored 2 points and stabbed someone.

No argument as to relative allocations of blame.

And certainly no argument as to, as a practical matter, MOST protest votes (or non-votes) being meaningless. Thanks to our electoral system.

[BiggDick]

if we can recognize our electoral system renders certain votes meaningless, then maybe we should be criticizing the electoral system, rather than trying to point fingers at certain voters.

[BiggDick]

Too many young voters simply vote on "you didn't do what I wanted you to do" even when what they wanted them to do was an absurd impossibility. Biden could not just tell Israel to get fucked because they were behaving as poorly as the terrorists who initiated the escalated situation.