Israel/Palestine

[BiggDick]

I'm sure there's some validity to that.

It's difficult to get a read on precisely which issues affected just how may votes.

So I don't mean to sound confident Harris would have won if "only" she'd have worked harder for the "pro-Palestinian" (or otherwise just kinda not a fan of the way we've supported the destruction of Gaza) vote.

I just think it's among a number of issues that, in hindsight, may have been weaknesses in her campaign. It may even be high among that number of issues, but again, it's hard to precisely say.

[RainbowsandUnicorns]

I'm sure there's some validity to that.

It's difficult to get a read on precisely which issues affected just how may votes.

So I don't mean to sound confident Harris would have won if "only" she'd have worked harder for the "pro-Palestinian" (or otherwise just kinda not a fan of the way we've supported the destruction of Gaza) vote.

I just think it's among a number of issues that, in hindsight, may have been weaknesses in her campaign. It may even be high among that number of issues, but again, it's hard to precisely say.

Reasons why I feel she lost - in order.
1. People who voted like/d Trump more than Harris / disliked him less than Harris.
2. She's Black and Indian and has a vagina (I think).
3. She worked with Joe Biden the past 4 years, people suffered during his Presidency, people had her responsible for their suffering too, and she was too loyal to Biden when and after it was announced she was going to be the Democratic candidate.
4. She was doomed from day 1 and ran a poor campaign.
5. Come on. She is Kamala Harris. Decent chance thewoman would have lost in a primary if the Dems had one and a few decent people ran against her.
Somewhere around 25 - "The border".
Somewhere around 50 - She didn't get votes from people because they felt she was "pro Israel" and "anti Palestine.

[jfish26]

[KUTradition]

fafo

[BiggDick]

I’m afraid the only real difference between Trump and Biden here is, Trump is just saying the quiet part out loud

[Sparko]

I’m afraid the only real difference between Trump and Biden here is, Trump is just saying the quiet part out loud

And that is why you are SO comfortable in your sophistry. Gosh. There isn't any difference. You have fallen so far, Ous.

[BiggDick]

Sparko, this sounds like more projection.

The sophistry is pretending Biden was any better for Gaza.

It’s the Dems who have fallen so far as to only care about our tax dollars being complicit in war crimes now that there’s a pub in the White House.

[jfish26]

Sparko, this sounds like more projection.

The sophistry is pretending Biden was any better for Gaza.

It’s the Dems who have fallen so far as to only care about our tax dollars being complicit in war crimes now that there’s a pub in the White House.

If you genuinely believe that Biden and Trump are equally bad for Gaza - NOT, I cannot believe I have to say this out loud, just that both are bad, but equally bad - then you have chosen to live in nonreality.

Which of course is your prerogative.

But it's a hell of a thing for someone who incessantly lectures others on seeing things only in black and white, and on being alert to exposure to propaganda.

[BiggDick]

More projection.

I do not know how you, with a straight face, can pretend like Biden was anything less than completely horrific for Gaza.

Anyone who is unwilling or unable to realize that, is the one living in some nonreality.

And let’s not get caught up on semantics like “equally.”

[Shirley]

I’m afraid the only real difference between Trump and Biden here is, Trump is just saying the quiet part out loud

And that is why you are SO comfortable in your sophistry. Gosh. There isn't any difference. You have fallen so far, Ous.

^^^

Intellectual laziness on steroids.

Pro tip: Just because you're too uninformed and ignorant to appreciate any difference, doesn't mean there isn't one.

[BiggDick]

jeez, Shirley.

I don't want to be ignorant, or intellectually lazy, so please do inform me about whatever you think I'm missing.

But again, I genuinely struggle to understand why news of a president acting like a total psycho about Gaza is only news when Trump does it.

And I initially suggested not getting caught up on the semantics of, "equal," but instead, let's discuss that term. Cuz, as it turns out, any informed intellectual can realize Biden and Trump are NOT equals about Gaza.

To date, realize Biden has been much, much, much, so incredibly MUCH worse about Gaza.

Heck, Biden is a huge part of the reason Gaza was and is such a mess in the first place, and the reason Trump is even in a position to go for this fucked up "clean out" rhetoric now!

[Overlander]

jeez, Shirley.

I don't want to be ignorant, or intellectually lazy

Then log out, take a drive, and go catch a fish

[KUTradition]

Trump’s Gaza proposal rejected by allies and condemned as ethnic cleansing plan

[BiggDick]

well fortunately no allies ever rejected Biden nor condemned his plans with regard to Gaza.

I know that not because I choose to be informed about these things, but because I just assumed so while taking a drive instead

not that it's intellectually lazy!

[RainbowsandUnicorns]

jeez, Shirley.

I don't want to be ignorant, or intellectually lazy, so please do inform me about whatever you think I'm missing.

But again, I genuinely struggle to understand why news of a president acting like a total psycho about Gaza is only news when Trump does it.

And I initially suggested not getting caught up on the semantics of, "equal," but instead, let's discuss that term. Cuz, as it turns out, any informed intellectual can realize Biden and Trump are NOT equals about Gaza.

To date, realize Biden has been much, much, much, so incredibly MUCH worse about Gaza.

Heck, Biden is a huge part of the reason Gaza was and is such a mess in the first place, and the reason Trump is even in a position to go for this fucked up "clean out" rhetoric now!

Forgive me, I am confused. I know - I am always confused.
You say, Biden is a huge part of the reason Gaza was such a mess "in the first place"?
When was the "first place" and how/why was he a huge part of the reason?

I remember during Trump part 1 people said Trump is/was the most "pro Israel" President in history.
Heck, he himself probably said it. I know he said, "No President has done more for Israel than I have".
What do you think he would have done differently from/than Biden in regards to Israel and Gaza the past year and half (and the past 4 years)?
Being that there were American Hostages that were taken, he would have been PISSED at Hamas and probably would have sent American troops in to "eliminate" them. At what cost to Gaza? I don't know. My guess is ranging from very little to complete inhalation.

[jfish26]

More projection.

I do not know how you, with a straight face, can pretend like Biden was anything less than completely horrific for Gaza.

Anyone who is unwilling or unable to realize that, is the one living in some nonreality.

And let’s not get caught up on semantics like “equally.”

We are getting caught up on semantics like "equally" because that is an argument you made!

The sophistry is pretending Biden was any better for Gaza.

Arguing that Biden was not "any better" for Gaza is arguing that Biden was, at best, equally bad for Gaza.

If you don't like that dumbass argument criticized, simply don't make it!

But if you do choose to make that dumbass argument, don't move the goalposts as soon as you're criticized for it. And certainly do not blame others for holding you accountable for the argument that you made.

[KUTradition]

round and round and round…

[DeletedUser]

If you don't like that dumbass argument criticized, simply don't make it!

Saving this for the hoops board.

[KUTradition]

If you don't like that dumbass argument criticized, simply don't make it!

Saving this for all the boards.

[BiggDick]

More projection.

I do not know how you, with a straight face, can pretend like Biden was anything less than completely horrific for Gaza.

Anyone who is unwilling or unable to realize that, is the one living in some nonreality.

And let’s not get caught up on semantics like “equally.”

We are getting caught up on semantics like "equally" because that is an argument you made!

The sophistry is pretending Biden was any better for Gaza.

Arguing that Biden was not "any better" for Gaza is arguing that Biden was, at best, equally bad for Gaza.

If you don't like that dumbass argument criticized, simply don't make it!

But if you do choose to make that dumbass argument, don't move the goalposts as soon as you're criticized for it. And certainly do not blame others for holding you accountable for the argument that you made.

dude, "equally" is a term you went for first. I suggested we NOT get caught up on the semantics of as much.

but, okay, I'll give you "equally" too, if you want...in the sense Israel/Palestine is bigger than just a partisan issue - even if posters like you, fish, seem to only care about it when you can leverage the issue for the sake of your own partisan pearl-clutching.