The conference

[BiggDick]

So we’re 8 games into conference play, and already 3 behind.

Houston is currently in 1st and undefeated, and we still gotta play them again on the road.

ISU and Zona not far behind at 1 loss apiece, and we still play them both but at home

Feels weird to say but seems very unlikely we’re even in the race for the conference any more this season.

Kinda thinking Self needs to focus less on that and more on doing what we can to have this team ready for a tourney run anyway - mainly “manage minutes.”

That is to say, get as many reps for the newcomers so they can be as prepared as possible to contribute and maybe we won’t have to play the core guys 400 minutes a night.

[pdub]

My guess is that we go 14-6 in conference.
I don't see Houston going 6-6 to finish the season.

[DeletedUser]

We have one of, if not the, hardest schedules in the conference.

We aren't winning the conference this year.

Self seems pissed about how the scheduling works so he's mentioned that the conference race doesn't mean quite as much now. His comments about the "magnitude" of last night's game was more evidence of those feelings I think. If we wanted to win the conference, it was essentially a must win game.

The only real "newcomer" to college basketball is Bidunga. And he's getting all the minutes he can handle right now. So Self is already doing what you're asking.

Playing inferior players over players that are better than them, just because they're "newer" is not a real coaching strategy. That's also not a player development strategy. You don't learn how to run plays during a game. The coach can only call the plays the players know how to run. You can easily identify during games that certain players don't know what they're supposed to do or where they're supposed to go based on certain actions within the flow of the offense. They're all interconnected in ways so 1 guy can throw the entire thing off.

I think Self is doing great this year at getting guys acclimated and letting them play through mistakes. Shak has acclimated. Coit. Bidunga. Griffen. Really, the only one struggling is Storr. And he's getting more leash than he deserves.

[pdub]

The conference does mean less because of the scheduling, for sure.

When the Big 12 was 10 teams, though I missed the rivalries, there wasn't a more fair way to determine a champ than everyone play home and away.

But this is even worse than when we were in 2 divisions, played everyone in our division home and away, and rotated every other year where we played the other teams. This is just throw it on the bored and see if its sticks.

[DeletedUser]

This is just throw it on the bored and see if its sticks.

Even worse, for KU at least, is that now it's all "made for TV" driven.

We are pretty much guaranteed to play the 2 best teams (other than us) twice each season. Because they're huge TV games and that makes them the most money.

I like it for entertainment purposes and developing the players against the best competition purposes. But the conference race is meaningless to me now.

[DeletedUser]

The other reason the conference race is meaningless to me now is because I don't think I could name all of the other teams in the conference off the top of my head.

College sports have lost their way.

[BiggDick]

The only real "newcomer" to college basketball is Bidunga. And he's getting all the minutes he can handle right now. So Self is already doing what you're asking.

Playing inferior players over players that are better than them, just because they're "newer" is not a real coaching strategy. That's also not a player development strategy. You don't learn how to run plays during a game. The coach can only call the plays the players know how to run. You can easily identify during games that certain players don't know what they're supposed to do or where they're supposed to go based on certain actions within the flow of the offense. They're all interconnected in ways so 1 guy can throw the entire thing off.

I think Self is doing great this year at getting guys acclimated and letting them play through mistakes. Shak has acclimated. Coit. Bidunga. Griffen. Really, the only one struggling is Storr. And he's getting more leash than he deserves.

Indeed, Bidunga is the only newcomer who is a true freshman and getting big minutes.

But Zeke and Shak are new to the program, and playing big minutes in starting roles. Griffen, Coit, Storr all new to the program as well.

As for the new guys playing minutes "just because they're "newer," is indeed is not a real coaching strategy. But it IS a real coaching strategy to give minutes to new guys because that's precisely what they were recruited for - to give us depth at key positions, particularly since Self sold the fans, and himself, on the idea that the returning core guys really could be part of a contender if we just managed their minutes better.

about that "manage minutes," and since this was a big storyline going into this season.

Hunter played 45 minutes, but at least with that, it's due in large part to our front court depth dealing with injuries.

Dajuan played 46 minutes. He'd already played 36 minutes by the end of regulation, which is more than Shak and Coit combined for the whole game. That's mostly cuz Self simply doesn't manage his minutes like planned, even despite seeing Dajuan be less productive after big minutes played.

Now, I'm not sure Shak or Coit or even Zeke is as effective at playing as the primary ballhandler with Dajuan getting actual rest. But, that's the point I'm trying to make here! Particularly if winning the conference is no longer likely, we might as well use conference play to do what we can to get these guys comfortable in more and more minutes.

I hope Self is getting them reps in practice so someone else can be prepared to play as primary ball handler (cuz yea like you said you don't learn how to run plays during a game*), with the end goal being to actually rest Dajuan during games so he might actually be fresher in late game situations, which are so critical particularly come tournament time.







*except maybe Silvio?

[pdub]

The other reason the conference race is meaningless to me now is because I don't think I could name all of the other teams in the conference off the top of my head.

College sports have lost their way.

I think I could do it but it's more, "oh yea, I forgot Arizona State is in our conference now.
Yup, that's still stupid."

[TDub]

The only real "newcomer" to college basketball is Bidunga. And he's getting all the minutes he can handle right now. So Self is already doing what you're asking.

Playing inferior players over players that are better than them, just because they're "newer" is not a real coaching strategy. That's also not a player development strategy. You don't learn how to run plays during a game. The coach can only call the plays the players know how to run. You can easily identify during games that certain players don't know what they're supposed to do or where they're supposed to go based on certain actions within the flow of the offense. They're all interconnected in ways so 1 guy can throw the entire thing off.

I think Self is doing great this year at getting guys acclimated and letting them play through mistakes. Shak has acclimated. Coit. Bidunga. Griffen. Really, the only one struggling is Storr. And he's getting more leash than he deserves.

Indeed, Bidunga is the only newcomer who is a true freshman and getting big minutes.

But Zeke and Shak are new to the program, and playing big minutes in starting roles. Griffen, Coit, Storr all new to the program as well.

As for the new guys playing minutes "just because they're "newer," is indeed is not a real coaching strategy. But it IS a real coaching strategy to give minutes to new guys because that's precisely what they were recruited for - to give us depth at key positions, particularly since Self sold the fans, and himself, on the idea that the returning core guys really could be part of a contender if we just managed their minutes better.

about that "manage minutes," and since this was a big storyline going into this season.

Hunter played 45 minutes, but at least with that, it's due in large part to our front court depth dealing with injuries.

Dajuan played 46 minutes. He'd already played 36 minutes by the end of regulation, which is more than Shak and Coit combined for the whole game. That's mostly cuz Self simply doesn't manage his minutes like planned, even despite seeing Dajuan be less productive after big minutes played.

Now, I'm not sure Shak or Coit or even Zeke is as effective at playing as the primary ballhandler with Dajuan getting actual rest. But, that's the point I'm trying to make here! Particularly if winning the conference is no longer likely, we might as well use conference play to do what we can to get these guys comfortable in more and more minutes.

I hope Self is getting them reps in practice so someone else can be prepared to play as primary ball handler (cuz yea like you said you don't learn how to run plays during a game*), with the end goal being to actually rest Dajuan during games so he might actually be fresher in late game situations, which are so critical particularly come tournament time.







*except maybe Silvio?

Shak made 2 really dumb passes and missed a defensive assignment all within about 1:30 of gametime...he didn't play much after that

[Overlander]

My wife asked me yesterday what all of the teams in the “Big 12” are.

Took me a few minutes….

[DeletedUser]

The only real "newcomer" to college basketball is Bidunga. And he's getting all the minutes he can handle right now. So Self is already doing what you're asking.

Playing inferior players over players that are better than them, just because they're "newer" is not a real coaching strategy. That's also not a player development strategy. You don't learn how to run plays during a game. The coach can only call the plays the players know how to run. You can easily identify during games that certain players don't know what they're supposed to do or where they're supposed to go based on certain actions within the flow of the offense. They're all interconnected in ways so 1 guy can throw the entire thing off.

I think Self is doing great this year at getting guys acclimated and letting them play through mistakes. Shak has acclimated. Coit. Bidunga. Griffen. Really, the only one struggling is Storr. And he's getting more leash than he deserves.

Indeed, Bidunga is the only newcomer who is a true freshman and getting big minutes.

But Zeke and Shak are new to the program, and playing big minutes in starting roles. Griffen, Coit, Storr all new to the program as well.

As for the new guys playing minutes "just because they're "newer," is indeed is not a real coaching strategy. But it IS a real coaching strategy to give minutes to new guys because that's precisely what they were recruited for - to give us depth at key positions, particularly since Self sold the fans, and himself, on the idea that the returning core guys really could be part of a contender if we just managed their minutes better.

about that "manage minutes," and since this was a big storyline going into this season.

Hunter played 45 minutes, but at least with that, it's due in large part to our front court depth dealing with injuries.

Dajuan played 46 minutes. He'd already played 36 minutes by the end of regulation, which is more than Shak and Coit combined for the whole game. That's mostly cuz Self simply doesn't manage his minutes like planned, even despite seeing Dajuan be less productive after big minutes played.

Now, I'm not sure Shak or Coit or even Zeke is as effective at playing as the primary ballhandler with Dajuan getting actual rest. But, that's the point I'm trying to make here! Particularly if winning the conference is no longer likely, we might as well use conference play to do what we can to get these guys comfortable in more and more minutes.

Dude, it was a double OT game.

Your 5 or 6 best players are all that are going to play in the extra periods.

We're not going to play a 10 person rotation in these types of games. Storr played 18min. Shak 19min. It's not like we didn't play them man. Storr was awful. Shak messed up a couple times, Griffen was on fire, and DH was best equipped to guard Cryer. And Zeke is option 1a or 1b every time down the court even when he's having a bad shooting night. That is why the minutes broke down the way they did. If Shak would have been on fire and Griffen was missing his shots then Shak would have taken Griffen's minutes. That is how this works every game. We see who is hot and that's who plays out of that group.

You're also completely ignoring the defense aspect of the entire situation, like always. Cryer is a handful. You can't really just throw Coit on him for long stretches.

We didn't lose that game because we didn't get Coit Storr and Shak enough minutes. Coit is not someone we need to worry about forcing game minutes to in an effort to develop at all. He's already shown he's capable if needed, but he's not someone we brought in to play 20mpg.

[BiggDick]

the "point I'm trying to make here" is to "do what we can to get [the guys who we recruited to provide depth] comfortable in more and more minutes" by tournament time, "particularly if winning the conference is no longer likely."

illy, do you think there's merit to that strategy?

[DeletedUser]

the "point I'm trying to make here" is to "do what we can to get [the guys who we recruited to provide depth] comfortable in more and more minutes" by tournament time, "particularly if winning the conference is no longer likely."

illy, do you think there's merit to that strategy?

I think that's what we are doing.

You're just using this as another way to try to get to your pre established conclusion that DH should lose minutes.

And now you're saying he needs to lose them to Coit? So he can develop?

Coit is comfortable. Shak is comfortable. We are developing those guys.

Storr is the only one not comfortable. And this is your friendly reminder that he shot the ball at the basket 10 times last night (6 field goals and 4 free throws) and not a single one went in. And he doesn't do much else when he's out there (which isn't a comfortability thing).


And if your hypothetical strategy involves losing games we wouldn't otherwise lose in an effort to arbitrarily manage minutes just for the hell of it, then I'd say you sound like the Jerry Jones of the KU Basketball GM thinktank we're running around here.

You seem to think we should do shit just to do shit. I think we are already at a place where if DH is fatigued that Shak or Coit can come in. Or if KJ gets hurt or is in foul trouble or sucking that Bidunga can come in. And that Griffen can come in and hit shots. Anything we get from Storr is a bonus.

That's our rotation.

[twocoach]

the "point I'm trying to make here" is to "do what we can to get [the guys who we recruited to provide depth] comfortable in more and more minutes" by tournament time, "particularly if winning the conference is no longer likely."

illy, do you think there's merit to that strategy?

It's fine so long as you understand the cost which is giving your better players minutes to get THEM more comfortable playing together by tourney time.

Diggy Coit being a little better doesn't make KU's ceiling higher than getting Harris to be a little better.

[BiggDick]

well, I think the only way we get "Harris to be little better" at this point is to try to not overplay him and manage his minutes better so he can finish games better, as was the plan for this season.

But that's not happening. He's played 35+ in 4 straight games now.

and I think Harris is very much a known commodity at this point. He's had more than enough minutes to get comfortable here. It's the other guys - the guys we brought in to help manage Dajaun's minutes - who could prob use reps to look a little more comfortable here.

[DeletedUser]

well, I think the only way we get "Harris to be little better" at this point is to try to not overplay him and manage his minutes better....

JFC

Let's start with the facts about last night (we can save all the hypothetical strategical nonsense of yours that you've said dozens of times about DH for another day):

Dajuan: 8pts 12ast 5reb 2stl 1to

Lj Cryer: 9pts 3ast 3rebs 0stl 2to

I know it's your thing, but you're overlooking about a half dozen other things to get to DH when finding what to blame last night on.

Finding ways to resist going on these pointless meltdowns about Dajuan Harris will improve your ability to exist on this site happily. DH isn't going to play 25mpg this season no matter how badly you want him to. He's having a great fucking superduper senior year, and your inability to see his value to this team says a lot about your basketball intelligence.

(Respectfully)

He's got plenty of faults. He was nervous and missed those free throws. I think he's got the free throw yips to be honest.

Without knowing the 2nd inbounds play we fucked up, i can't determine who was at fault. If the play was to clear out so Zeke could quickly inbound to HD and get the ball back, then blaming DH for that fuckup is flawed logic. But those are the things we can't know as fans.

[MICHHAWK]

the conference race is always meaningless to those not in it.

[BiggDick]

god damn, illy.

If you wanna act respectfully, then just don't insult my intelligence in the first place.

The truth is, I DO see Dajuan's value to this team.

That's why I want him to be as fresh as possible come tournament time, and particularly come crunch time in the tournament.

On that note - what do you think of Dajuan's career performance in the clutch?

[DeletedUser]

god damn, illy.

If you wanna act respectfully, then just don't insult my intelligence in the first place.

[DeletedUser]

On that note - what do you think of Dajuan's career performance in the clutch?

Besides him being clutch enough to start on a national title winning team?

Do you mean career clutch performance offensively or defensively? I think we know the answer to that.

Since ONLY offensively (which is how your brain works) then I guess I don't think much about it, because in a perfect world you wouldn't want to depend on Dajuan to have clutch performances offensively in big spots (especially as a scorer).

I'm fully confident in DHs ability to pass it to any one of our scorers in a clutch spot and to execute all of our plays in a clutch spot.

I am fully confident in DHs ability to execute our defensive gameplan and to shut his man down in a clutch spot.