2024/2025 Lineup

[DeletedUser]

Positive takeaways and thoughts from a heart breaking loss:

1. Zeke has been awesome all year. He's improving at a rapid pace offensively and defensively. He had some major fuck ups in this one, but hopefully that results in more growth. These types of games are still COMPLETELY new to him and he's been asked to be option 1a or 1b every game.

2. Flory is going to be awesome on both ends of the court. The ability to play 36min in that type of game is a positive sign because we'll need 30+ every night out of him next year.

3. Griffen showed he can make pressure shots when it matters. I hope he stays another year.

4. That is probably one of the best games HD has had in a big spot during his time at KU. He is good at dominating the lesser opponents, but has played crappy in some big games. It was nice to see him play well against a rough and tough Houston defense.

5. We gave that game away. It shows we are capable of upsetting top teams in the tournament. But it'll have to be just that, an upset, if we're getting to a final 4 or beyond. Being an underdog has it's mental advantages at times.

6. These few games without KJ have been big for us in my opinion (regardless of whatever our record ends up being with him out). We're closer to being a good team now. We've had big performances by 3 guys we really need during this stretch (Griffen Flory and Storr). It's not translating to on court success yet, but we're adapting a bit. And we know the same old same old we were doing wasn't working. So seeing these small improvements individually is really the best we can hope for, because we pretty much know what we've got with HD DH Kj.


It's frustrating to have to look for silver linings or moral victories, but that's just life with this group this year.

GO CHIEFS!

[TDub]

no silver linings in that. Straight up loss thay shouldve been a win. I think every other Self team wins that game except maybe last year.

We gave away a game against Acie Law too....fucking corner 3. But it wasnt this bad.

[MICHHAWK]

Last night is what we call “snatching defeat from the jaws of victory.”

[BiggDick]

changing gears a tad...

I think it IS a positive sign to get 36 minutes (plus a lot of production) out of Flory.

I'm kinda thinking, while we'll need 30+ every night out of him next year, we also kinda need that much out of him right now.

and, don't get me wrong! I want KJ 100% healthy and back ASAP. But, with the way Flory's playing, he just might be making a case to keep his starting spot going forward this year.

[DeletedUser]

(On to KJ. LOL. This is so repetitive.)

Absolutely agree it's a positive sign he played 36 in this one before fouling out.

Expecting 30+ minutes from Flory on a nightly basis is not a realistic expectation for this season in my opinion. 20-25 regularly would be awesome.

Current key stats for Flory:

15.8 min per game.

He is averaging 6.2 fouls per 40 minutes. Which equates to fouling out in roughly 32 minutes if fouls occur at even intervals (which they don't, obviously).

He has still only played more than 20min 4 times the entire season, including the last 3 games (and against UCF which was a blowout).

In those 4 games with 20min or more he's fouled out 1 time and had 4 fouls 1 other time.

He has 4 fouls or more in 6 of 19 games.



Conclusion:

I personally will be thrilled if we can get Bidunga regularly into the 25mpg range, even once KJ is back. That would be a best case scenario in my opinion. Basically an even split between him and KJ (once healthy).

Anything beyond that seems like setting unrealistic expectations for a player just because you don't like a different player.



Now, if KJ is out the rest of the season then Bidunga will and should play until he fouls out of every game.

[BiggDick]

I could get on board with 20-25 a night for Flory.

He's one of those guys who could prob benefit from reps now to be more prepared and less likely to foul out in March.

There's, what, 80 minutes in a regulation game to divvy among the 2 front court positions?

I guess 20-25 for Flory means 55-60 left between Hunter and KJ. That's prob about where we should be, or if anything, maybe just a few more minutes yet to Flory if he's staying outta foul trouble.

Say if we can get about 25 from each of Hunter, KJ, and Flory, and also 5mpg from Zach once healthy (what he averaged before injury), then, boom, there's our front court minutes.

Zach's only played in 8 games tho this year, dang. Depending on how much longer he's out and other factors, might be a candidate for a medical shirt.

[DeletedUser]

Let's stay in reality.

Not including blowouts, or injuries, or bizarre ejections, or foul trouble, if any of those occur. Clemence isn't playing in important games the rest of the year. It's just not going to happen.

We've done the minute breakdown before. Yes if HD has 30 then that leaves 25 and 25 for KJ and Bidunga. Going to the extreme of suggesting Bidunga is going to average equal or more minutes than HD is just not realistic. But again, I know you're always working toward your end goal of blaming DH KJ and HD.

I'm not sure if it's intentional, or if you think we are all stupid and oblivious, but you're super transparent at times. You're not fooling anyone.

[KUTradition]

i thought that obvious

[DeletedUser]

[BiggDick]

I don't disagree that Clemence isn't likely to play in important games. Like I mentioned, he might be a candidate for a medical redshirt instead.

Since starting, Bidunga has averaged almost 29 minutes a game. Considering that, I dunno if it's extreme, and might even be even somewhat realistic, to suggest he could continue playing similar minutes going forward, even if it is comparable to Hunter or healthy KJ's minutes too.

Also since starting, Flory's even been productive in his minutes, averaging 11.6 points 8.6 boards and 1.7 blocks, and shooting 72% FG, and almost 82% from the line.

and, please realize it does not make for quality discussion to counter points like, "I want KJ 100% healthy and back ASAP" with, "I know you're always working toward your end goal of blaming KJ."

[DeletedUser]

and, please realize it does not make for quality discussion to counter points like, "I want KJ 100% healthy and back ASAP" with, "I know you're always working toward your end goal of blaming KJ."

Very little you do "makes for quality discussion".

You're judged on your words around here. You've made your feelings on certain players crystal clear. You add in nice tidbits and backhanded compliments from time to time so when called out for your bias you say "who? Me? No, not me. I said nice things, too."

The game you play is so fucking obvious dude. You do it on every board about every topic.

[BiggDick]

illy, if and when KJ is back healthy, who do you think should start at the 4?

[DeletedUser]

illy, if and when KJ is back healthy, who do you think should start at the 4?

Yes. And he will start.

And that has very little to do with whether I like him as a player more than Bidunga.

Or whether I'd want Bidunga in over KJ at the end of important games.

Everything is so surface level with you. In basketball there are things called substitution rotations or patterns. Rotationally, once KJ is healthy, it makes very little sense to start Bidunga over KJ for several key (and simple) reasons:

1. He's our only backup Center.

2. He's foul prone. If he gets in early foul trouble then we no longer have a backup Center. We don't want HD playing 38mpg.

3. If Bidunga is 6th man he can substitute for 2 spots (4 or 5).


This isn't as hard as you're making it. It's needless jibber jabber. And I'm much more worried about who is finishing games than who is starting games. Situationally, I absolutely envision scenarios where Bidunga is in at the end of games. Either instead of KJ or with KJ.

We aren't going to reinvent the wheel. Our frontcourt substitution patterns are pretty standard and obvious (to those who watch games and pay attention). HD frequently comes out either right before the under 16 TO or soon after. Bidunga and KJ play together for a few min. Then HD comes in for KJ and we play HD and Bidunga together for a stretch. Then KJ comes back in for Bidunga (who is usually close to a 2nd foul by then). Then Bidunga comes back in for HD around the 8-10min mark. Rinse and repeat.

Our front court is pretty set. I'm not sure why we'd be entertained by wasting time splitting hairs over a few hypothetical minutes.

Self isn't going to suddenly bench KJ because he got hurt. No matter how badly you want it or need to discuss it (again).

[mjl2]

Other than the fouling, Flory is really good at not making mistakes. Doesn't make stupid passes, passes to the back shoulder, rotates well on defense.

He's averaging 2.0 turnovers per 40. Compared to our last several centers:
Embiid averaged 4.1
Lucas averaged 2.5, low of 1.9
Dok 3.4, low 3.0
McCormack 3.0, low 2.9
KJ 2.2 his year playing the 5.
Hunter 2.6, low 2.2

[JayhawkInIowa726]

no silver linings in that. Straight up loss thay shouldve been a win. I think every other Self team wins that game except maybe last year.

We gave away a game against Acie Law too....fucking corner 3. But it wasnt this bad.

Gameday was there for that one. I could hardly believe we lost it at the time. The Houston game was way more inexplicable to blow the game twice.

[DeletedUser]

Storr: 7 minutes

Unbelievable.

[mjl2]

I mean, I actually thought this was one of his better games. 3 boards, 5 points on 3 shot attempts... Relatively good-ish?

[DeletedUser]

I mean, I actually thought this was one of his better games. 3 boards, 5 points on 3 shot attempts... Relatively good-ish?

Sad, but true.

Although he missed all 3 of his shots. LOL

At least he made his free throws.

[Sasquatch]

We are reaching February and self still has no clue what his rotation is. Wildly inconsistent minutes from storr, shak, coit, and Griffen. Closing lineups are almost always different

[DeletedUser]

We are reaching February and self still has no clue what his rotation is. Wildly inconsistent minutes from storr, shak, coit, and Griffen. Closing lineups are almost always different

I can't figure out what Shak and Griffen are doing wrong.

Those 2 should be locked into 20-25mpg game at minimum.

Despite hitting shots i thought Coit was not great last night. His defense is bad. And when he's used as a the primary ballhandler he turns it over and he doesn't create assists for others at a very good rate.

I don't mind him in the 8-10mpg role, but he's a liability on both ends of the court.