2024/2025 Lineup

[twocoach]

This team has been such an enigma that Self doesn't seem to be able to do much more than ride the hot hand when he sees it when it comes to the group of Moore, Storr, Griffen and Coit.

The only thing that is consistent is their inconsistency.

[KUTradition]

^^^^^^

[mjl2]

We are reaching February and self still has no clue what his rotation is. Wildly inconsistent minutes from storr, shak, coit, and Griffen. Closing lineups are almost always different

I can't figure out what Shak and Griffen are doing wrong.

Those 2 should be locked into 20-25mpg game at minimum.

Despite hitting shots i thought Coit was not great last night. His defense is bad. And when he's used as a the primary ballhandler he turns it over and he doesn't create assists for others at a very good rate.

I don't mind him in the 8-10mpg role, but he's a liability on both ends of the court.

I get what Shak did wrong, but I don't know that it warranted sitting almost the entire second half. I assume Self's mindset is he's out there primarily for defense, so if he isn't going to give defensive effort (see start of second half), then he won't play?

Coit did save us some possessions on the glass, a couple of tipouts to teammates on 50/50 defensive boards that could have been the difference in the game. Of course, relying on the smallest guy on the court for help on the boards is indicative of a bigger problem

[Psychhawk]

We are reaching February and self still has no clue what his rotation is. Wildly inconsistent minutes from storr, shak, coit, and Griffen. Closing lineups are almost always different

I can't figure out what Shak and Griffen are doing wrong.

Those 2 should be locked into 20-25mpg game at minimum.

Despite hitting shots i thought Coit was not great last night. His defense is bad. And when he's used as a the primary ballhandler he turns it over and he doesn't create assists for others at a very good rate.

I don't mind him in the 8-10mpg role, but he's a liability on both ends of the court.

I get what Shak did wrong, but I don't know that it warranted sitting almost the entire second half. I assume Self's mindset is he's out there primarily for defense, so if he isn't going to give defensive effort (see start of second half), then he won't play?

Coit did save us some possessions on the glass, a couple of tipouts to teammates on 50/50 defensive boards that could have been the difference in the game. Of course, relying on the smallest guy on the court for help on the boards is indicative of a bigger problem

Not sure what "help" on the boards we needed last night. We outrebounded them by 44-34 margin.

[mjl2]

I can't figure out what Shak and Griffen are doing wrong.

Those 2 should be locked into 20-25mpg game at minimum.

Despite hitting shots i thought Coit was not great last night. His defense is bad. And when he's used as a the primary ballhandler he turns it over and he doesn't create assists for others at a very good rate.

I don't mind him in the 8-10mpg role, but he's a liability on both ends of the court.

I get what Shak did wrong, but I don't know that it warranted sitting almost the entire second half. I assume Self's mindset is he's out there primarily for defense, so if he isn't going to give defensive effort (see start of second half), then he won't play?

Coit did save us some possessions on the glass, a couple of tipouts to teammates on 50/50 defensive boards that could have been the difference in the game. Of course, relying on the smallest guy on the court for help on the boards is indicative of a bigger problem

Not sure what "help" on the boards we needed last night. We outrebounded them by 44-34 margin.

Because of Coit to an extent, combined with us having a lot more turnovers (thus we had more defensive rebound opportunities)

[Psychhawk]

The turnovers were 12 to 7 in favor of UCF. They had 11 more shots put up than us, but they made only one more shot than us. Part of the difference in shot attempts can be explained by the fact we had a FT advantage of 29 to 17 attempts. We missed only 4, they missed only 2. I don't think 5 additional possessions due to turnover difference explains the rebounding difference. Coit had 4 rebounds, which was great. Lots of long rebounds due to missed 3 point attempts happens.

[mjl2]

It was watching the ones he got, including the ones that don't show up in the box score.

Several were 50/50 balls.

[twocoach]

Kansas will enter February with 5 losses for just the 4th time in the Bill Self era. Here's how the previous teams did in the tourney:

05-06 Round of 64 loss
18-19 Round of 32 loss
20-21 Round of 32 loss
24-25 TBD

Ugh.

[DeletedUser]

Kansas will enter February with 5 losses for just the 4th time in the Bill Self era. Here's how the previous teams did in the tourney:

05-06 Round of 64 loss
18-19 Round of 32 loss
20-21 Round of 32 loss
24-25 TBD

Ugh.

I'd be curious where we were ranked in those seasons.

This year we have 5 losses, but we're ranked 11th. 8th in NET. 9th in Kempon (30 offense, 5 defense).

We could easily only have 3 losses and be looking at a 1 seed. As is, we still may snag a 2 seed.

[twocoach]

Kansas will enter February with 5 losses for just the 4th time in the Bill Self era. Here's how the previous teams did in the tourney:

05-06 Round of 64 loss
18-19 Round of 32 loss
20-21 Round of 32 loss
24-25 TBD

Ugh.

I'd be curious where we were ranked in those seasons.

This year we have 5 losses, but we're ranked 11th. 8th in NET. 9th in Kempon (30 offense, 5 defense).

We could easily only have 3 losses and be looking at a 1 seed. As is, we still may snag a 2 seed.

I admire your optimism. I hope that happens.

[twocoach]

06: 8th in Kenpon (50 offense, 2 defense) 4 seed
19: 17th in Kenpon (27 offense, 17 defense) 4 seed
21: 27th in Kenpon (54 offense, 12 defense) 3 seed

[DeletedUser]

I think we'll end up a 3 seed.

And we have elite defense.

We are absolutely a contender for a final 4 appearance. Beyond that, who knows.

[BiggDick]

it's nuts that 06 was defensively that good.

If there's something this team has that those teams lacked, it's experience.

06 and 19 in particular were young. This season has prob literally the most combined years we've ever had in a starting lineup. That's nice to have in March.

[twocoach]

it's nuts that 06 was defensively that good.

If there's something this team has that those teams lacked, it's experience.

06 and 19 in particular were young. This season has prob literally the most combined years we've ever had in a starting lineup. That's nice to have in March.

I don't consider experience to be as important as experience together. '19 was ridiculous if you look at it. Of the 10 guys who finished the season with KU (Vick was boosted in early Feb) only Garrett and Lightfoot played on the team the previous season together.

'06 has Robinson, Jackson and Kaun that had the one previous season together.

'25 has Dickinson, who had one previous season with Harris and Adams, who have played 3 prior years together. But everyone else that plays is brand new to KU this season, regardless how much they played somewhere else. So there's certainly a little more experience together.

Is it weird to wonder how different this season would be if Elmarko Jackson stays healthy?

Who knows, man. They have a lot of individuals who can play well and have good games. They don't seem to be super gelled as a unit yet. Maybe they will, maybe they won't. They could still have 5 dudes all have good games on the same day. Maybe the bracket is kind.

They're just very matchup dependant in the tourney and I don't really even know if there's a consistent matchup this team would love to see other than a mediocre center for Dickinson to abuse. The rest just feels like a crap shoot.

[BiggDick]

Man. Good post twocoach! Lots of hoops content to digest here.

In roughly the same order as your points:

I think "experience together" is important too. Whether it's as important as factors like experience on its own, or on pure talent, I dunno. There's no magic bullet here. We've seen rings won with a variety of those factors.

'19 actually had a lot of experience together. The KJ and DCdric Lawsons had already been here a year, and Charlie too. We ended up starting a ridiculously young backcourt. Holy shit, Devon had to have been the best freshman PG we've ever had. Charlie shoulda stuck to bass fishing (even tho we kicked his ass in the Elite 8 lol). And Grimey was a dough ball who needed to get the fuck over himself. But that '19 roster lost, what, 3 guys by the end of the season. If Vick settled down, SDS didn't get F'd by the NCAA, and Dok stayed healthy, who knows, even with two true freshman at the guard spots.

06 was still young as eff. Chalmers, Rush, Wright all true freshman starting, plus sophomores in Kaun, Russ, Jackson, CJ. The experience was Jeff Hawkins and Christian Moody.

Dickinson's a 5th year with 2 here. KJ's a true 4 year program guy. and Dajuan has the kind of experience only Mitch Lightfoot can hold a chicken tender to. We also have 4th year Zach. On paper, at least, and if history is any indication, that should be a contributor. But he hardly has at all, plus hurt.

And yes, I maintain that my fanboy theory is Self expected Elmarko to play a big role for us this year, but for his knee (RIP)

Yea, maybe we'll gel. I was excited/at least hopeful to see some of the newcomers get some run last night, even if they weren't fantastic.

Indeed, the tournament is a fickle beast. And if our bracket gets nuked, maybe we get a cake walk to a Final Four. Who knows! That's how the tournament works! And it's happened before! Or heck, we still have 2-3-4+ guys who can get hot on any given night. Maybe we fuck around and beat some teams we aren't expected to beat. That's how the tournament works!

But yea. as a KU fan, it feels awful weird to be like, "I hope we get a good bracket," or be like, "I hope our guys might get hot," instead of my fanboy mindset every other year like, I don't care who's in our backet, bring it on you fuckin loosers we're fuckin KU and we'll beat any one any time any place you fuckin loosers.

[DeletedUser]

But yea. as a KU fan, it feels awful weird to be like, "I hope we get a good bracket," or be like, "I hope our guys might get hot," instead of my fanboy mindset every other year like, I don't care who's in our backet, bring it on you fuckin loosers we're fuckin KU and we'll beat any one any time any place you fuckin loosers.

That sounds cool and all, but we've only won 3 national titles in the last 40ish years. And 1 of those wins came in a year where you thought we "needed a good bracket" or for our guys to "get hot". And another 1 of those teams was literally called Danny and the Miracles. And the 3rd has been dubbed Mario's Miracle.

So, not sure feeling all "we're KU and nobody can beat us" makes much difference when it comes to winning a national title.

[KUTradition]

particularly as a “fan”

[BiggDick]

there's so much soft pansy posting, and yet also so much antagonistic contrarianism

I dunno whether this is supposed to register on the roiboi meter or the illy meter!

or do we need a roiboilly meter?

[KUTradition]

there’s more ignorance-posting than anything

[BiggDick]

I mean, that IS one of the parameters of the illy meter.

Childish, too!