Recruiting 2019

[twocoach]

2 of the last 7 national championship winners have been lead by OAD dominated teams.

I don't think it's OADs that are the problem.

Gotta have a mix around them, but considering only a few teams get OADs, and considering only 1 team wins it all each year...I'd say 2 out of 7 is evidence that Self is recruiting the right players (both OADs and multi year players to develop).

That's 28.5% of the last 7 national championship winners being led by OADs.....and since OAD led teams are less than 1% of D1 teams, that's strong evidence that having the best players results in the best outcomes over time.

Even though it didn't work for Duke this year.

Do your own math. It means that 5 of the last 7 have NOT been led by OAD dominated teams.

That's 71.5%. Which seems to be noticeably better than 28.5%.

Ah. Math. Your wife a math teacher?


So let's try this again:

What % of college basketball teams recruit and get multiple OADs per year? 1%-ish? Kansas duke unc UK.

The other 99% don't.

That 1% has won 28.5% of the last 7 national titles.....see? It's working just fine. That's a good %, for a handful of schools, in a single elimination tournament.

Kansas doesn't get multiple OAD players every year. We usually get one. And there have been more than 20 different programs have a OAD player in just the last 2 seasons.

[Deleted User 75]

LOL

so now we don't even get enough of the types of players that we don't need to get.

Got it.

[pdub]

When we won in 2008 I fell off a jeep that was trying to make it's way through Mass street.
In 2038 if I fall off the Jetson's flying saucer, I sure hope I have some sort of emergency gravity pack.

[PortlandHawk]

Can we please end this circlejerk and get back to talking about the recruits/grad transfers we are in on and any new thoughts related to them? If you wanna debate recruiting strategy/focus get a new thread. At this point this is just and Illy/twocoach thread.

[twocoach]

If you have new information on them (there isn't any) please feel free to add it to the thread.

[twocoach]

Illy could give a breakdown on their social media profile and tell you which ones are to be avoided based on their Instagram posts and their tattoos if you want.

[Deleted User 75]

That'd still be a better strategy than avoiding all players who might possibly be OADs.

Ya know, because frank mason was awesome so that means all players ranked 75+ turn into he or Carson Edwards. They're the rule. Not the rare exception.

It's because of our constant influx of OAD type talent that you can overlook all the players ranked 75+ we've had that don't turn out to be Frank Mason or Devonte Graham. It's not nearly as easy to find those guys and develop them into national POY candidates as you're trying to make it seem.


Remember when half the board wanted mason benched so we could play frankamp and graham over him....lulz. recruiting and player development experts.

[Geezer]

Duke didn't lose yesterday because they were full of OADs. They lost a close game. Missed free throws that could have changed the outcome.

And 24 hours ago the 2 teams who looked like they had the best chance to win it all were Duke and UK....both full of OADs. So I'm not going to let 1 day of games lead me to believe we should reinvent our recruiting methods.

I am not basing my opinion on one day of games. I am basing it on 14 years of Kansas tournament results.

K-State would be more your speed.

[CrimsonNBlue]

Oh this argument again?

And after a season where our season was derailed by a fragile bodied junior and fragile minded senior?

The argument against one-and-dones is a spiritual cousin of others that cycle through here, like there being something mutually exclusive about winning the league and winning in the tournament, or about preferring to go into the tournament as a #2 seed.

It's such a tired debate. And, you're right given our program, it's not even really relevant.

We are actually mostly 2-3 year players. Sprinkle in some OAD's. Sprinkle in some program guys you take flyers on like Releford, Lucas, Lightfoot, etc. Lately, we've been taking transfers.

For a decade and half now, it's been a wildly successful formula. That should be a debate-ender.

[Deleted User 75]

I know this year was tough, but we really shouldn't panic and scrap what's made us the winningest program during the Self era. Trust the process. I know we have had some tournament heartbreak. It happens no matter what. That's the nature of single elimination.

I know we've had some recruiting misses and other player issues. It happens. Some of it is unavoidable.

We'd all love to have Frank Mason or a NPOY PG every single year, but that's not realistic. No matter whether we recruit top 20 recruits or only 50+ recruits.

There is no perfect formula, but the schools that are similar to Kansas (duke, UK, UNC) are using the same formula and are winning national championships.

We can win national championships with OADs. Others have done it RECENTLY (2015, 2012) with multiple OADs.

There's no way anyone can ever convince me that we should avoid players like Josh Jackson in favor of players who aren't as talented.

Winning national titles isn't easy. It's not easy with freshman. It's not easy with veterans. And it's not easy with a mix of both.

Good luck the rest of the off season. Hopefully we can avoid the OADs!

[Lonestarjayhawk]

Only the fan base that didn't actually go to Kansas is "hilarious"...the actual ones have a better understanding.

[DCHawk1]

Only the fan base that didn't actually go to Kansas is "hilarious"...the actual ones have a better understanding.

In this particular argument...

[Deleted User 75]

Only the fan base that didn't actually go to Kansas is "hilarious"...the actual ones have a better understanding.

No doubt. I'm sure all this was covered in orientation.

Also, just fyi, twocoach didn't go to KU either...but great zinger!

[Mjl]

Oh this argument again?

And after a season where our season was derailed by a fragile bodied junior and fragile minded senior?

The argument against one-and-dones is a spiritual cousin of others that cycle through here, like there being something mutually exclusive about winning the league and winning in the tournament, or about preferring to go into the tournament as a #2 seed.

It's such a tired debate. And, you're right given our program, it's not even really relevant.

We are actually mostly 2-3 year players. Sprinkle in some OAD's. Sprinkle in some program guys you take flyers on like Releford, Lucas, Lightfoot, etc. Lately, we've been taking transfers.

For a decade and half now, it's been a wildly successful formula. That should be a debate-ender.

Nitpicking despite you being right on the main point here...

Wasn't Rele a top 20 player when he signed? He plummeted after his junior year IIRC

[CrimsonNBlue]

Ya that’s right, he doesn’t quite fit bc he was a very early offer.

More to the point would be that he’s a program guy, and I think Bill knew that when he showed up on campus.

[Deleted User 89]

who let illy back in?

shhhh.

This isn't politics. You don't have to white knight for twocoach as he gets his lunch eaten.

By Illy, of all people.

except, i’ve actually been enjoying the b-ball board more lately

oh well

[Deleted User 89]

You do realize duke just won a national title with some OADs in 2015?

An intelligent mind such as yourself couldn't possibly have forgotten that?

UK just won in 2012 with OADs.

Those probably are not the 2 programs you should pick out as failures at knowing the formula to win national titles.

Ask Duke fans if they are OK with just 2 final fours in the last 15 years despite the huge volume of great talent. Same with UK.

And "just"? It's 2019. UK has had what, six Top 2 classes and 15 OAD players since that national title?

How often are you expecting these programs to win national titles? LOL

Regardless of recruiting, expecting a program to fire off 2 or 3 national titles every decade is fucking unrealistic. It's not going to happen over time. It may randomly happen (Florida, Nova, Uconn) but we're talking about sustained success. Duke Kansas UK and UNC do that better than anyone. All recruit OADs. Every. Single. Year.

except, those programs did it before the OAD too, so...

[Deleted User 75]

Ask Duke fans if they are OK with just 2 final fours in the last 15 years despite the huge volume of great talent. Same with UK.

And "just"? It's 2019. UK has had what, six Top 2 classes and 15 OAD players since that national title?

How often are you expecting these programs to win national titles? LOL

Regardless of recruiting, expecting a program to fire off 2 or 3 national titles every decade is fucking unrealistic. It's not going to happen over time. It may randomly happen (Florida, Nova, Uconn) but we're talking about sustained success. Duke Kansas UK and UNC do that better than anyone. All recruit OADs. Every. Single. Year.

except, those programs did it before the OAD too, so...

Ummm...LOL...ya. they did. Because they have always gotten the best players....nowadays many of the best players are OADs.

[twocoach]

LOL

so now we don't even get enough of the types of players that we don't need to get.

Got it.

You used the criteria of "gets multiple OAD per year". Kansas does not fit that.

I would be curious to see a breakout of tourney wins per season with a OAD player in the rotation vs. without.

[Geezer]

If the NBA goes back to signing players out of high school, who do you think recruits the next top 25?
After their freshman seasons, how many decide to be 1and done?