KJ

[twocoach]

He would have been good depth.
It’s a loss but certainly not that big a one.
I think it 100% confirms what we knew: Dedric declaring.

I think a number of transfers could bring what KJ did.

The more impactful questions of guys on our roster:
1. Does Dok stay ( not a good chance )
2. Does DeSousa win his appeal ( also not a good chance but better )
3. Does Grimes stay ( decent chance )

1. Hopeful but doubtful.
2. My worthless guess is.... It won't matter. He should be gone and like Preston (with hopefully better long term results) he basically gives the NCAA a fuck you.
3. 3 big options for him and another worthless guess...... All 3 are being seriously almost equally considered. I say he tests without an agent (I'm assuming guys can still do that but am not 100% sure) and then returns to KU. Unfortunately for him he got caught up in a numbers game this past season - and may have come out on the losing end.

Grimes didnt get caught up in a numbers game. Hell, Bill Self consistently gave him max minutes despite terrible results, hoping that it would pay off down the stretch. He just didnt handle the step up to college competition well and was unprepared to do what was needed of him.

I agree that Grimes will declare, get feedback and return. NBA scouts cannot possibly like what they see from him yet and he isn't like Diallo in that you can see what he will be in 5 years. Grimes just isn't good enough at the game yet nor is he elite enough as an athlete to get by on his athletic gifts until his skill set improves. Hopefully he takes the feedback to heart and spends the summer busting ass to get better.

[Cascadia]

Nobody ruins a thread like gutter.

[NewtonHawk11]

Nobody.

[Deleted User 75]

.....hold my milk

[PhDhawk]

Yeah, gutter has really stepped his game up the past month or so. I think he got tired of seeing that he'd been passed by. Twocoach had taken over being the debbie downer, keeping people in check, making sure no one had too much fun, or was too positive of a fan and also getting pissy about being told how to post while simultaneously constantly telling others how they should post. Michhawk had cornered the market on making long posts that don't say anything or just posting stupid shit and just generally being a dumb pain in the ass. NDBaller made sure to correct unimportant detailed minutiae that aren't important. And Illy was king of arguing for the sake of arguing.

gutter has come back to take his crown, and I'm excited to watch it play out.

[pdub]

And, per use, PhD is the worst poster to ever have lived in the history of posting, and even before posting was a thing.

OFFSEASON!!!

[sdoyel]

Nobody ruins a thread like gutter.

Uh hello?

[Deleted User 183]

He would have been good depth.
It’s a loss but certainly not that big a one.
I think it 100% confirms what we knew: Dedric declaring.

I think a number of transfers could bring what KJ did.

The more impactful questions of guys on our roster:
1. Does Dok stay ( not a good chance )
2. Does DeSousa win his appeal ( also not a good chance but better )
3. Does Grimes stay ( decent chance )

1. Hopeful but doubtful.
2. My worthless guess is.... It won't matter. He should be gone and like Preston (with hopefully better long term results) he basically gives the NCAA a fuck you.
3. 3 big options for him and another worthless guess...... All 3 are being seriously almost equally considered. I say he tests without an agent (I'm assuming guys can still do that but am not 100% sure) and then returns to KU. Unfortunately for him he got caught up in a numbers game this past season - and may have come out on the losing end.

Grimes didnt get caught up in a numbers game. Hell, Bill Self consistently gave him max minutes despite terrible results, hoping that it would pay off down the stretch. He just didnt handle the step up to college competition well and was unprepared to do what was needed of him.

I agree that Grimes will declare, get feedback and return. NBA scouts cannot possibly like what they see from him yet and he isn't like Diallo in that you can see what he will be in 5 years. Grimes just isn't good enough at the game yet nor is he elite enough as an athlete to get by on his athletic gifts until his skill set improves. Hopefully he takes the feedback to heart and spends the summer busting ass to get better.

I said he got caught up in a numbers game because most of the time he was playing an un-natural position for him. Part of that is on Grimes and part is on Self. Self felt Dotson > Grimes.
Add Grimes to the list of other guys that possibly/probably made a poor choice by going to KU.
My main question regrading Grimes is if he goes from being what some actually felt would be a lottery pick to not even being drafted. Not sure if Grimes would have gone straight to the NBA out of High School if it was possible - if so, another possible case of the NBA fucking a kid over royally?

[PhDhawk]

if so, another possible case of the NBA fucking a kid over royally?

Isn't it more likely a scenario where the OAD rule prevents an NBA team from making a bad mistake? And as a result, means a more deserving kid got drafted instead?

[ousdahl]

re: "un-natural position," is that his knock?

he projects as a point guard and looks awkward playing off the ball?

(what's preventing him from creating more off the ball? Even if he was unambiguously the lead guard, how is that gonna make him able to drive, or consistently hit jumpers, or do the other things he's gotta do to be taken seriously as a prospect?)

[Deleted User 183]

PhD - My answer to the first question - Yes.
Still, doesn't mean a bad mistake can't be made on a kid who is forced to wait a year out of High School.
Answer to your second question - Not sure what qualifies as "deserving" but I have seen kids lose millions of dollars because of the OAD rule. Flip side of that as you have alluded to is - some kids have made millions that they may not have made if not for the OAD rule.
Obviously I'm not a fan of it.

[CrimsonNBlue]

re: "un-natural position," is that his knock?

he projects as a point guard and looks awkward playing off the ball?

(what's preventing him from creating more off the ball? Even if he was unambiguously the lead guard, how is that gonna make him able to drive, or consistently hit jumpers, or do the other things he's gotta do to be taken seriously as a prospect?)

His camp wants him to play point. Dotson is just too good.

I guess if I had to choose one or the other, good luck Q.

[Deleted User 183]

re: "un-natural position," is that his knock?

he projects as a point guard and looks awkward playing off the ball?

(what's preventing him from creating more off the ball? Even if he was unambiguously the lead guard, how is that gonna make him able to drive, or consistently hit jumpers, or do the other things he's gotta do to be taken seriously as a prospect?)

I can't say for sure what his knock is right now - and it seems neither can he - and Self - and my guess is unfortunately nor can NBA Scouts and GMs too. Looked awfully good in HS playing the point but if Dotson is a better point for Self and his system - so be it. Sucks for Q.
You asked another good question - the one in parentheses - that just don't have the definitive answer to - let alone an opinionated answer either.

[Deleted User 104]

Nobody ruins a thread like gutter.

Gutters will be gutters.

[PhDhawk]

re: "un-natural position," is that his knock?

he projects as a point guard and looks awkward playing off the ball?

(what's preventing him from creating more off the ball? Even if he was unambiguously the lead guard, how is that gonna make him able to drive, or consistently hit jumpers, or do the other things he's gotta do to be taken seriously as a prospect?)

His camp wants him to play point. Dotson is just too good.

I guess if I had to choose one or the other, good luck Q.

I wondered for most of the season why Grimes wasn't Dotson's backup. I mean, if Grimes is a worse option than Charlie Fucking Moore at PG, he better work on his jumper and athleticism, because there's no way he's an NBA PG.

But, I thought Dotson should play ~32 mpg at point, and Grimes should play 8 mpg at PG and 22 mpg at the 2. Still don't know whether this is an error by Self or that Grimes can't play the point...but based on a season's worth of evidence, I'm pretty confident its the latter.

[ousdahl]

I just feel like if he had it in him (at least thus far) he would have looked a lot more polished by now, on or off the ball.

Self's system values versatile ball handlers, dont it? the league perhaps even more so.

I feel like if Grimes really wanted to showcase himself as a pg, he could do so in harmony with Dotson. To claim otherwise just seems like kind of a crutch.

Especially considering it's not like he's a natural 2-guard who's being expected to play point. It's the other way around. It's increasingly the age of positionless basketball, ain't it? A player should be able to produce regardless of position - at least if he's a legit NBA prospect.

I mean, if I'm a GM and the Grimes camp's pitch is "he'll do better once he has the ball in his hands," I'm not sure I buy it. That's the fix up against the NBA talent pool, after he struggled to produce in college? Please.

[ousdahl]

2018-19 PG depth chart looked something like this:

Dotson
Moore
Garrett
Grimes

and yeah, if Grimes can't beat out those dudes at the college level, how's he gonna do it in the pros?

I mean Devonte was an all-Merican college pg and he's still only a fringe NBA guy.

[holidaysmore]

I'm willing to bet PG from the Grimes camp meant he was going to have the ball in his hands. All the time.
I'm not sure if it was in his own head or he can't but Grimes favorite moves were to catch the ball on a dribble weave hand off and either set an illegal screen or take two dribbles laterally, pick up his dribble, pass and cut away from the ball.

[CrimsonNBlue]

re: "un-natural position," is that his knock?

he projects as a point guard and looks awkward playing off the ball?

(what's preventing him from creating more off the ball? Even if he was unambiguously the lead guard, how is that gonna make him able to drive, or consistently hit jumpers, or do the other things he's gotta do to be taken seriously as a prospect?)

His camp wants him to play point. Dotson is just too good.

I guess if I had to choose one or the other, good luck Q.

I wondered for most of the season why Grimes wasn't Dotson's backup. I mean, if Grimes is a worse option than Charlie Fucking Moore at PG, he better work on his jumper and athleticism, because there's no way he's an NBA PG.

But, I thought Dotson should play ~32 mpg at point, and Grimes should play 8 mpg at PG and 22 mpg at the 2. Still don't know whether this is an error by Self or that Grimes can't play the point...but based on a season's worth of evidence, I'm pretty confident its the latter.

That's a very fair point.

I guess the only Grimes-apologist position you can take on this past season is that the lineup was so fucked up that Devon played almost every minute and Q was either on the bench himself or playing next to Moore when Devon was out.

Maybe it's just the blind optimism in me, but I can entertain the idea that Q might be better playing point--haven't seen hard evidence of that, though.

[jfish26]

I just feel like if he had it in him (at least thus far) he would have looked a lot more polished by now, on or off the ball.

Self's system values versatile ball handlers, dont it? the league perhaps even more so.

I feel like if Grimes really wanted to showcase himself as a pg, he could do so in harmony with Dotson. To claim otherwise just seems like kind of a crutch.

Especially considering it's not like he's a natural 2-guard who's being expected to play point. It's the other way around. It's increasingly the age of positionless basketball, ain't it? A player should be able to produce regardless of position - at least if he's a legit NBA prospect.

I mean, if I'm a GM and the Grimes camp's pitch is "he'll do better once he has the ball in his hands," I'm not sure I buy it. That's the fix up against the NBA talent pool, after he struggled to produce in college? Please.

I wonder if the short college three-point line is disproportionately hard on bigger PGs, from a ball-handling standpoint. Since you're cramming more bodies in a smaller space, you're giving a ball-handler less room to work with. Might be easier for little dudes to find lanes than 6'5" dudes.