KJ

[CrimsonNBlue]

I'm willing to bet PG from the Grimes camp meant he was going to have the ball in his hands. All the time.
I'm not sure if it was in his own head or he can't but Grimes favorite moves were to catch the ball on a dribble weave hand off and either set an illegal screen or take two dribbles laterally, pick up his dribble, pass and cut away from the ball.

If Grimes wants to play PG, he has to completely transform himself taking it to the rim. I don't know if I've ever seen weaker takes from a Self guard let alone a top 10 talent.

Grimes reminds me in so many ways of frosh Selden. But, at least Selden's takes to the rim were strong. Granted, they both shot around 5% at the rim, but at least try to fucking boom on somebody.

[PhDhawk]

What was it pdub used to say about Lucas? He was good at standing.

Grimes showed flashes of that brilliantly at the guard spot this year. He also excelled at dribbling once and not going anywhere with the ball.

I remember there was a 2 on 1 fast break, I think it was against Northeastern, where my wife commented that Grimes was clearly sprinting as hard as he could and Dotson who wasn't even approaching full speed, still had to slow down for him to catch up. I mean, he just didn't live up to his HS scouting report.

[ousdahl]

I just feel like if he had it in him (at least thus far) he would have looked a lot more polished by now, on or off the ball.

Self's system values versatile ball handlers, dont it? the league perhaps even more so.

I feel like if Grimes really wanted to showcase himself as a pg, he could do so in harmony with Dotson. To claim otherwise just seems like kind of a crutch.

Especially considering it's not like he's a natural 2-guard who's being expected to play point. It's the other way around. It's increasingly the age of positionless basketball, ain't it? A player should be able to produce regardless of position - at least if he's a legit NBA prospect.

I mean, if I'm a GM and the Grimes camp's pitch is "he'll do better once he has the ball in his hands," I'm not sure I buy it. That's the fix up against the NBA talent pool, after he struggled to produce in college? Please.

I wonder if the short college three-point line is disproportionately hard on bigger PGs, from a ball-handling standpoint. Since you're cramming more bodies in a smaller space, you're giving a ball-handler less room to work with. Might be easier for little dudes to find lanes than 6'5" dudes.

perhaps...but I feel like the bigger spacing of pro ball is likely offset by the fact everybody's taller, longer, and faster either way.

[holidaysmore]

I'm willing to bet PG from the Grimes camp meant he was going to have the ball in his hands. All the time.
I'm not sure if it was in his own head or he can't but Grimes favorite moves were to catch the ball on a dribble weave hand off and either set an illegal screen or take two dribbles laterally, pick up his dribble, pass and cut away from the ball.

If Grimes wants to play PG, he has to completely transform himself taking it to the rim. I don't know if I've ever seen weaker takes from a Self guard let alone a top 10 talent.

Grimes reminds me in so many ways of frosh Selden. But, at least Selden's takes to the rim were strong. Granted, they both shot around 5% at the rim, but at least try to fucking boom on somebody.

This x 1 million. I would sit and watch games and nearly lose my shit for how SOFT a guy his size played. I can think of numerous times he would get to the lane and throw up some awful floater or some weak lay up attempt. I know kids these days are all about the 'Jellyfam' aka the finger roll layup but goodness once you get to the rim, in the word of the great Bill Walton...THROW IT DOWN, BIG FELLA.

[Deleted User 104]

A lot of our guys played poorly as freshmen. Remember the Morris twins? They didn't make any meaningful impact until they were sophs. I'm not worried about any of the young guys on our lineup, yet.

[MICHHAWK]

Most freshmen play like freshmen.

[painter]

A lot of our guys played poorly as freshmen. Remember the Morris twins? They didn't make any meaningful impact until they were sophs. I'm not worried about any of the young guys on our lineup, yet.

Tyshawn was brutal as a freshman

[pdub]

Grimes could have played point for a team like Stanford.
He's not playing point for Kansas.
He didn't protect the ball enough/dribbled too high, couldn't beat people off the dribble really, wasn't that smart of a passer yet, didn't have speed.

Not to say he can't get better at those things but if Charlie Moore was a better PG at that position if he didn't have to shoot. But we needed someone to shoot. And all we had at the end of the season was a fastasfuck Dotson Drive or Dedric trying to put something together.

[pdub]

And before gutter comes in and says 'oh but...' yea, I understand he had 10 assists that one time.

[jfish26]

A lot of our guys played poorly as freshmen. Remember the Morris twins? They didn't make any meaningful impact until they were sophs. I'm not worried about any of the young guys on our lineup, yet.

Tyshawn was brutal as a freshman

Yes, but he also showed flashes. That's the most perplexing thing about Grimes. Other than hitting a shot or two and occasionally making a decent pass...he really did nothing at all that was impressive.

[PhDhawk]

A lot of our guys played poorly as freshmen. Remember the Morris twins? They didn't make any meaningful impact until they were sophs. I'm not worried about any of the young guys on our lineup, yet.

Tyshawn was brutal as a freshman

Yes, but he also showed flashes. That's the most perplexing thing about Grimes. Other than hitting a shot or two and occasionally making a decent pass...he really did nothing at all that was impressive.

Right. You rarely if ever saw the glimpses of why he was ranked so high.

The other thing is, he was getting 30 mpg. This wasn't like a lot of the freshman where, they look great at times and look like freshmen at times and their stats are limited by playing <20 mpg.

[DrPepper]

I suspect Grimes is mentally soft too. I have never witnessed a player in the Self era that whined (with his body language and face) until Grimes. It drives me nuts. Someone makes a shot on him or something and he looks to the coaches with the “but I did everything right” look. I hope someone can break him from that habit. Just get your ass up the court, dude. Play more and think less.

[Deleted User 75]

Ahh the body language experts.

Makes me wonder how much some of you actually watched the games.

Grimes, for having a very disappointing season by his own expectations and ours, maintained a great attitude, didn't force things, didn't quit on his teammates, didn't complain to the media, didn't sit on the bench and pout, and didn't stop trying hard.

I always wonder how much the opinions of Grimes would change if he'd have made 37% of his 3pt attempts instead of whatever % he made.

[CrimsonNBlue]

You're both partly right.

And would opinions change if Grimes shot a good 3PT percentage? Well duh.

[TDub]

Grimes defense was underrated. Not saying hes russ rob. But hes a decent defender for a freshman

[twocoach]

1. Hopeful but doubtful.
2. My worthless guess is.... It won't matter. He should be gone and like Preston (with hopefully better long term results) he basically gives the NCAA a fuck you.
3. 3 big options for him and another worthless guess...... All 3 are being seriously almost equally considered. I say he tests without an agent (I'm assuming guys can still do that but am not 100% sure) and then returns to KU. Unfortunately for him he got caught up in a numbers game this past season - and may have come out on the losing end.

Grimes didnt get caught up in a numbers game. Hell, Bill Self consistently gave him max minutes despite terrible results, hoping that it would pay off down the stretch. He just didnt handle the step up to college competition well and was unprepared to do what was needed of him.

I agree that Grimes will declare, get feedback and return. NBA scouts cannot possibly like what they see from him yet and he isn't like Diallo in that you can see what he will be in 5 years. Grimes just isn't good enough at the game yet nor is he elite enough as an athlete to get by on his athletic gifts until his skill set improves. Hopefully he takes the feedback to heart and spends the summer busting ass to get better.

I said he got caught up in a numbers game because most of the time he was playing an un-natural position for him. Part of that is on Grimes and part is on Self. Self felt Dotson > Grimes.
Add Grimes to the list of other guys that possibly/probably made a poor choice by going to KU.
My main question regrading Grimes is if he goes from being what some actually felt would be a lottery pick to not even being drafted. Not sure if Grimes would have gone straight to the NBA out of High School if it was possible - if so, another possible case of the NBA fucking a kid over royally?

This whole notion that it was an "unnatural position to him" is kinda bunk. I read that article. It was an attempt of a local writer to play nice. If the fact that he had the ball in his hands more in HS than he did in college means that he played in an unnatural position, then virtually every really good HS player that doesn't play PG in college is in the same boat. Give me a break.

Grimes isn't a PG. He isn't good enough at any skill to play PG in college and his future in the NBA is not as a PG. There is nothing there to be "on" Self. He didnt make a poor choice to go to KU. He failed to adjust enough from HS to college. Period. Did it get exposed because he went to a big time program? Maybe. But if didnt choose Kansas, he would have chosen some other.big name program so no different there.

And why is it that the NBA should be making business decisions in the best interest of the players that aren't in the best interests of the NBA teams? The NBA players have a players union. Bitch about the NBAPA allowing the OAD rule to be passed to the detriment of guys like Grimes , not the NBA.

[twocoach]

Grimes defense was underrated. Not saying hes russ rob. But hes a decent defender for a freshman

He had some really good defensive series and some really terrible ones. Pretty erratic overall.

[twocoach]

I suspect Grimes is mentally soft too. I have never witnessed a player in the Self era that whined (with his body language and face) until Grimes. It drives me nuts. Someone makes a shot on him or something and he looks to the coaches with the “but I did everything right” look. I hope someone can break him from that habit. Just get your ass up the court, dude. Play more and think less.

I didnt see any of that at all. I frankly would have been concerned if he wasn't bothered by how things went for him. He had a sucky season, he should be smiling and joking during it. Overall I thought he handled a rough season as well as can be hoped for. He tried hard, he just was short on his jumpers, indecisive on his drives and sloppy with the ball. He'll get better, hopefully at Kansas next year.

[twocoach]

A lot of our guys played poorly as freshmen. Remember the Morris twins? They didn't make any meaningful impact until they were sophs. I'm not worried about any of the young guys on our lineup, yet.

Tyshawn was brutal as a freshman

Tyshawn shot 50% from the floor his freshman season and averaged 14.7 points and 4.5 assists a game in just 26 minutes. I am far from a Tyshawn fan but if that's "brutal" then my mental scale needs to be dramatically altered.

[Cascadia]

4 posts in a row? Jesus Christ this place is going downhill.