Q gone...

[twocoach]

But, his stock might now reflect reality more than it ever has.

This. Grimes is example 1A of why the NBA has the OAD rule in place. Grimes would have been a Top 10, maybe even Top 5 pick in last year's draft. You guys think some KU fans have been hard on the kid? Can you imagine the shit he would have taken if he went out as a Top 5 pick and played like he did this past season?

He was never projected as a top 5 pick.

All 3 duke kids would have gone ahead of him. Doncic. Trae Young. I could go on. That's silliness.

Trae Young would have gone in the draft prior if OAD was gone. Doncic wouldn't have been restricted by the age 19 rule and also would have been gone the previous year. You can't change the rules half way.

In a Jun 28, 2018 Lawrence Journal World article by Benton Smith, they listed where Grimes was in all of the 2019 draft projections at the time.

ESPN - 6th
SI - 7th
CBS Sports - 4th
NBC Sports - 5th
SB Nation - 10th
Bleacher Report - 12th

[PhDhawk]

I hate to keep piling on grimes, but, if you made a highlight tape of his time at Kansas, what would even be on it, a bunch of spot up threes, that's misleading as he's not even a good perimeter shooter, there'd be a few layups and maybe a steal or two...that one time he dove on the floor?

[pdub]

A lot of clips from the first game v Michigan State?

[PhDhawk]

I guess so. But he shot 34% from 3.

Which I guess is my point. The one thing he did a lot of he wasn't very good at.

[CrimsonNBlue]

I hate to keep piling on grimes, but, if you made a highlight tape of his time at Kansas, what would even be on it, a bunch of spot up threes, that's misleading as he's not even a good perimeter shooter, there'd be a few layups and maybe a steal or two...that one time he dove on the floor?

Grimes and Dedric combined for -2 dunks.

[vmlb]

Let the players make money above the table and this shit that so many hate happens less.

Why would the "shit that so many hate" happen less?

[CrimsonNBlue]

Let the players make money above the table and this shit that so many hate happens less.

Why would the "shit that so many hate" happen less?

Money is clearly driving players' decisions/nondecisions.

Not all, but a lot. DC brought up a great example: Cole.

X, that kid bawled his eyes out when he had to leave, but his handlers decided what his path was. Q's not making this decision by himself, either.

Joel could have played in the tourney--wasn't allowed to b/c of risking money. Rumors that Udoka was the same story this season.

Selby would have stayed if he was allowed to.

Cliff would have stayed for a sophomore season but found out he wouldn't be ruled eligible for it--because of money.

We could go all day, and that's just KU.

[Deleted User 104]

Selby would have stayed if he was allowed to.

He wanted to come back? News to me.

[Deleted User 75]

This. Grimes is example 1A of why the NBA has the OAD rule in place. Grimes would have been a Top 10, maybe even Top 5 pick in last year's draft. You guys think some KU fans have been hard on the kid? Can you imagine the shit he would have taken if he went out as a Top 5 pick and played like he did this past season?

He was never projected as a top 5 pick.

All 3 duke kids would have gone ahead of him. Doncic. Trae Young. I could go on. That's silliness.

Trae Young would have gone in the draft prior if OAD was gone. Doncic wouldn't have been restricted by the age 19 rule and also would have been gone the previous year. You can't change the rules half way.

In a Jun 28, 2018 Lawrence Journal World article by Benton Smith, they listed where Grimes was in all of the 2019 draft projections at the time.

ESPN - 6th
SI - 7th
CBS Sports - 4th
NBC Sports - 5th
SB Nation - 10th
Bleacher Report - 12th

They'd have worked him out and seen exactly what we saw all year long I think. He's just not that good yet.

Also, not positive, but for some reason I think that age 19 rule only applies to American players, right?

[CrimsonNBlue]

Selby would have stayed if he was allowed to.

He wanted to come back? News to me.

As you've said, Selby needed to stay.

It wasn't even an option for him. These decisions to leave after one season are made like 2 years before the draft. And, often, not by the player.

[vmlb]

What I don't get is why our "fans" would wish a guy to fail. UK fans do it a lot as well. I just don't get it. I WANT Grimes to succeed. That is why I want him to return to college. Even if he transfers to another school, it would be better than going pro right now (at least from what I can tell). With the exception of a few, I want everyone who wears a Kansas jersey to succeed. I was mad when Diallo left, but I'm very glad to see he's made a living in the NBA and is doing pretty good.

Makes as much sense as the "overrated" chant.

[Deleted User 75]

Can you blame some of them for leaving so they can provide for their family?

It's easy for some to turn their noses up at making 100k like it's nothing....but a lot of these kids come from places where their parents might not make that in 2 or 3 years combined.

[vmlb]

Let the players make money above the table and this shit that so many hate happens less.

Why would the "shit that so many hate" happen less?

Money is clearly driving players' decisions/nondecisions.

Not all, but a lot. DC brought up a great example: Cole.

X, that kid bawled his eyes out when he had to leave, but his handlers decided what his path was. Q's not making this decision by himself, either.

Joel could have played in the tourney--wasn't allowed to b/c of risking money. Rumors that Udoka was the same story this season.

Selby would have stayed if he was allowed to.

Cliff would have stayed for a sophomore season but found out he wouldn't be ruled eligible for it--because of money.

We could go all day, and that's just KU.

So, if they would have been paid, these examples would not have happened? Joel would have played in the tourney if he had a paycheck? Selby would have come back for the college paycheck?

[vmlb]

Also would like to know your sources for "Dok would have played this year", especially since he had the identical injury two yours prior and also did not play.

[jfish26]

Why would the "shit that so many hate" happen less?

Money is clearly driving players' decisions/nondecisions.

Not all, but a lot. DC brought up a great example: Cole.

X, that kid bawled his eyes out when he had to leave, but his handlers decided what his path was. Q's not making this decision by himself, either.

Joel could have played in the tourney--wasn't allowed to b/c of risking money. Rumors that Udoka was the same story this season.

Selby would have stayed if he was allowed to.

Cliff would have stayed for a sophomore season but found out he wouldn't be ruled eligible for it--because of money.

We could go all day, and that's just KU.

So, if they would have been paid, these examples would not have happened? Joel would have played in the tourney if he had a paycheck? Selby would have come back for the college paycheck?

Whether each of those examples would or would not have happened is irrelevant. In at least some number of cases, players would stay in college longer if they could get money. This is inarguable.

[PhDhawk]

Can you blame some of them for leaving so they can provide for their family?

It's easy for some to turn their noses up at making 100k like it's nothing....but a lot of these kids come from places where their parents might not make that in 2 or 3 years combined.

Quentin Grimes half brother signed a $40 million contract.

Also, it's so fucked up that parents want their children to take care of them. But that's another thread.

[pdub]

Let them go get money then.
Give me the kids who are here to play basketball, improve themselves as individuals, learn at a university and not leap at the very first chance at a payday.
Give me Frank Mason and Travis Releford ( or guys like McBride and Braun hopefully ) .

I think Self is doing a decent job with that mix still - I get why we are after one and dones - but I prefer the kids who stick around because they enjoy being at Kansas and what it has to offer.

[CrimsonNBlue]

Why would the "shit that so many hate" happen less?

Money is clearly driving players' decisions/nondecisions.

Not all, but a lot. DC brought up a great example: Cole.

X, that kid bawled his eyes out when he had to leave, but his handlers decided what his path was. Q's not making this decision by himself, either.

Joel could have played in the tourney--wasn't allowed to b/c of risking money. Rumors that Udoka was the same story this season.

Selby would have stayed if he was allowed to.

Cliff would have stayed for a sophomore season but found out he wouldn't be ruled eligible for it--because of money.

We could go all day, and that's just KU.

So, if they would have been paid, these examples would not have happened? Joel would have played in the tourney if he had a paycheck? Selby would have come back for the college paycheck?

Perhaps so, perhaps not. The larger point, and what jfish alluded to and also in my response to lobster, another year of school isn't even an option for some of these guys. That's not how it should be.

[Deleted User 104]

Let them go get money then.
Give me the kids who are here to play basketball, improve themselves as individuals, learn at a university and not leap at the very first chance at a payday.
Give me McBride and Braun.

I think Self is doing a decent job with that mix still - I get why we are after one and dones - but I prefer the kids who stick around because they enjoy being at Kansas and what it has to offer.

I wish we could get more guys like Graham, Mason and Selden. All of those guys showed what can happen if you stick around a few years. What Mason was able to do from freshman to senior year is outstanding. Not sure we've had a player go through that kind of transition.

[jfish26]

Let them go get money then.
Give me the kids who are here to play basketball, improve themselves as individuals, learn at a university and not leap at the very first chance at a payday.
Give me Frank Mason and Travis Releford ( or guys like McBride and Braun hopefully ) .

I think Self is doing a decent job with that mix still - I get why we are after one and dones - but I prefer the kids who stick around because they enjoy being at Kansas and what it has to offer.

What I can't follow is why you feel players getting money for their services (and name, image and likeness) is simply incompatible with the good things about college basketball.

The only thing I can come up with is that what you consider good about college basketball is that the players are taken advantage of. That that's a feature, not a bug.

It's gross.