Recruiting 2019

[CrimsonNBlue]

Honestly, I haven't seen that the OAD players make the overall quality of the college game better but that argument has been had here for years.

Watch the mid-majors and bad major conference teams, it's shit basketball, and there aren't any OAD's. The big thing at this level is the coaching.

[jfish26]

Why are hoops prospects like R.J. Hampton skipping college? 'These guys don't want to be in school'

https://sports.yahoo.com/why-are-hoops- ... 39816.html

Finding an alternative to college is on the fast track from anomaly to normalcy. Hampton’s decision is emblematic of the attitudes of high school basketball players toward college as we hurtle toward potentially seismic changes coming to the NBA draft in 2022.

[...]

“The singular difference from now and when this track was open a long time ago,” said an NBA scout, referencing the direct-to-NBA route, which ended in 2005, “is the absolute deterioration of the value of a college scholarship in the eyes of the players and their families. These guys don’t want to be in school and don’t care. The carrot of education has been devalued.”

There’s a good guess why the priorities of prospects have shifted. The parents have followed the money. Consider that since 2005, high-end coaching salaries have nearly tripled to as much as $10 million annually, the NCAA television contract has skyrocketed into the billions and a boom in conference-specific cable content has poured tens of millions annually into leagues like the SEC and Big Ten. For the players, they get a few table scraps like cost of attendance and some more charter flights and nicer gyms. But the alleged draw to college is still the scholarship. And it’s going to become increasingly clear when the NBA rule changes back, just how stale that carrot is for top prospects.

[...]

So how many top high school players will be skipping school and attempting to go to the NBA once it’s formally allowed? There were nine high school entrants back in 2005. But so much has changed with exposure and social media that a mass exodus is expected. I guessed 50 players will declare annually to another NBA scout on Thursday. His response? “Maybe even more, to be honest with you.” He added: “Everyone is going to throw their name in there. I can only imagine how it works: ‘He declared, so I’m declaring.’ You get the peer-pressure thing. It doesn’t cost them or hurt them to get the feedback. I would if I was a kid.”

[...]

College basketball isn’t going to die, but it appears destined to lose some oxygen. As long as there’s a bracket, gambling and student sections, the sport will muster the attention of America every March. Basically, despite the NCAA, its members and coaches, the sport will continue to succeed. One NBA scout pointed out why kids still value going to college: “Some people still like the idea of the brand building and March Madness.”

This is a warning that there’s a new generation of kids who see college as more of an impediment than a benefit. The NCAA has begun discussions on allowing players to monetize their name, image and likeness. It’s a baby step, but an important one as they lose ground in a competitive field.

“It’s big especially for the top-level kids, that gives them an option to be able to profit,” said an NBA scout. “That’s the biggest step to make that change.”

College coaches and the impotent organization that represents them, the National Association of Basketball Coaches, should also take a long look at the rule the Rice Commission shuttered last year that would allow programs to hire more on-floor workout coaches. Limiting the amount of hours kids can practice in the offseason and the amount of people that can work them out is antiquated, counter-productive and indicative of the lack of common sense and leadership in the sport. The NCAA handbook should be subtitled: “Intense jargon to diminish the student-athlete experience.”

The parents have figured out that while NCAA president Mark Emmert and NABC president Jim Haney pocket millions to preserve the status quo, they’ve figured out there are other options for their kids’ market value.

“I think that’s a big key,” an NBA scout said. “Parents understand the value more and options more. I think they’ve done a good job, overall, educating them on what’s out there, their value and worth. They have power.”

R.J. Hampton exercised his power and is headed to New Zealand. It’s a small step in the college basketball world that won’t leave much of a mark. But once 2022 hits, the attitudes that informed Hampton’s decision could lead to a lot of players walking right past college basketball.

[pdub]

"And it’s going to become increasingly clear when the NBA rule changes back, just how stale that carrot is for top prospects."

Awesome.
Go get paid then top prospects.

[jfish26]

You're like a college basketball hipster - weirdly, you're actively hoping the product gets worse and less popular.

[CrimsonNBlue]

I will say that if NCAA fast tracks n/i/l, then I'd be pretty satisfied with stopping there.

While the morality of the schools, administrators, coaches getting wealthy and telling the talent (that disproportionately comes from poor backgrounds) that "they've had enough and will like what they get" is bankrupt, allowing n/i/l would at least logically satisfy the reprehensible "feel good" crowd that supports such a system.

[jfish26]

I will say that if NCAA fast tracks n/i/l, then I'd be pretty satisfied with stopping there.

While the morality of the schools, administrators, coaches getting wealthy and telling the talent (that disproportionately comes from poor backgrounds) that "they've had enough and will like what they get" is bankrupt, allowing n/i/l would at least logically satisfy the reprehensible "feel good" crowd that supports such a system.

I think N/I/L is realistically the most change that can be expected, and that it would at least allow college basketball a puncher's chance for kids making decisions based on cash in hand.

[pdub]

You're like a college basketball hipster - weirdly, you're actively hoping the product gets worse and less popular.

I don't think the top prospects leaving will do as much as you think it will to college basketball so no, I'm not really hoping the product gets worse and less popular.

[Deleted User 266]

Most people would agree the one and done rule blows. Overall, it blows for NCAA basketball, blows for NBA basketball, blows for the athletes, blows for the fans.

This isn't right. It's good for NBA because they get a year of free evaluation and can dodge a Quentin Grimes bullet. It has been great for CBB because they get star power they wouldn't otherwise get in guys like the aforementioned Zion, Durant, Trae, Wiggins, Embiid, Beasley, Simmons, etc. etc.

It does suck for the players, but fuck them, amirite?

One of my many faults is I try and see both sides to a story. I guess my above statement was just looking at one side,

Suppose I should have elaborated on my opinion.
I agree 100% "It's good for NBA because they get a year of free evaluation and can dodge a Quentin Grimes bullet".
I'll come up with one quick reason why I feel it's NOT good for the NBA - because guys like Zion Williams sell tickets.
Overall, you're probably right. It's beneficial to/for the NBA.

I agree 100% it has been great for CBB "because they get star power they wouldn't otherwise get in guys like the aforementioned Zion, Durant, Trae, Wiggins, Embiid, Beasley, Simmons, etc. etc".
A couple of reasons why I feel it's NOT good for CBB. A coach doesn't know if a guy is really going to be a one and done. Hard to recruit and hard for recruits when it comes to the unknown. Coaches and programs are having to "cheat" and (some are getting caught) when it comes to landing one and dones. It's hard to build a team and a system with a revolving door.

In terms of the players, overall it sucks but as I have asked others, if you were given a choice to be a star player and be a big man on campus for a year or go to an NBA team and sit on the bench (or even get sent to the A,B,C,D,E,F,G whatever it's called these days League) which would you choose? Too many kids would choose the NBA route and there would be a log jam.
Double edged sword for all involved.
Many of these kids come from families that not just can use the money but actually need the money - so I would never fault a kid for chasing the money if that was the case for them. Even if I felt it was the wrong decision.

[CrimsonNBlue]

I will say that if NCAA fast tracks n/i/l, then I'd be pretty satisfied with stopping there.

While the morality of the schools, administrators, coaches getting wealthy and telling the talent (that disproportionately comes from poor backgrounds) that "they've had enough and will like what they get" is bankrupt, allowing n/i/l would at least logically satisfy the reprehensible "feel good" crowd that supports such a system.

I think N/I/L is realistically the most change that can be expected, and that it would at least allow college basketball a puncher's chance for kids making decisions based on cash in hand.

It would make the carrot look a lot sweeter, that's for sure.

If I'm not mistaken, there have been Olympic athletes allowed to compete at the NCAA level post-endorsement.

And, of course, you have the Kyler Murray's and Chris Weinke's of the world which were great for college football.

[jfish26]

You're like a college basketball hipster - weirdly, you're actively hoping the product gets worse and less popular.

I don't think the top prospects leaving will do as much as you think it will to college basketball so no, I'm not really hoping the product gets worse and less popular.

You are hoping for a thing that necessarily reduces the talent level of a sport you follow, because it gives you the willies that some kids want some dang money. It's weird!

[jfish26]

I will say that if NCAA fast tracks n/i/l, then I'd be pretty satisfied with stopping there.

While the morality of the schools, administrators, coaches getting wealthy and telling the talent (that disproportionately comes from poor backgrounds) that "they've had enough and will like what they get" is bankrupt, allowing n/i/l would at least logically satisfy the reprehensible "feel good" crowd that supports such a system.

I think N/I/L is realistically the most change that can be expected, and that it would at least allow college basketball a puncher's chance for kids making decisions based on cash in hand.

It would make the carrot look a lot sweeter, that's for sure.

If I'm not mistaken, there have been Olympic athletes allowed to compete at the NCAA level post-endorsement.

And, of course, you have the Kyler Murray's and Chris Weinke's of the world which were great for college football.

Right. The sport will not melt if some kids get some dang money.

[PortlandHawk]

Honestly I think pdub only watches amateur skin flicks he loves amateurism so much.

[CrimsonNBlue]

"Australia has a fantastic development system,” NBA commissioner Adam Silver said during Wednesday's appearance on ESPN's Get Up!. “I think their population is around 24 million and they have around a dozen NBA players in the league right now. We’ve studied the Australian academy system there, and they move their young players to full-time ballplayers once they’ve hit 14 or so. They’re designated based on aptitude they’ve shown."

"From that standpoint, if I had a son or was advising someone, Australia is one of the best places to do that. We’ve opened (basketball) academies all over the the world in China, in India, in Africa. For him, that’s a decision an individual player should have the ability to make, especially when they’re 18 years old."

"I am a little jealous," Silver said. "In our G-League, we’re trying to create our own professional track. He decided he was better off in Australia than our G-League. I think I'm going to talk to the commissioner of our G-League to see what we can do differently. For an American player who decides college isn’t for me and wants to spend full time devoted to the game of basketball, there should be an alternative in the (United States) to do that."

https://247sports.com/college/kansas/Ar ... 132400143/

[twocoach]

The legitimate professional opportunities for draft eligible college players has grown exponentially in recent years. In a doc posted by the NCAA in April of this year, they reported that 53% of the 1,230 D1 draft eligible players played professionally in some form (NBA, G-League, internationally) in their first year after leaving college and a whopping 80% of the 228 draft eligible players from the P5 conferences played professionally their first year after college.

I dont have the same data from 10+ years ago but I would guess this is a huge increase. More and more guys are continuing to play basketball professionally beyond college so college hoops is being treated more as a training ground for pro hoopers and less as a tool to leverage to get a degree that will aid the player in getting a regular job in their post-hoops life.

[jfish26]

The legitimate professional opportunities for draft eligible college players has grown exponentially in recent years. In a doc posted by the NCAA in April of this year, they reported that 53% of the 1,230 D1 draft eligible players played professionally in some form (NBA, G-League, internationally) in their first year after leaving college and a whopping 80% of the 228 draft eligible players from the P5 conferences played professionally their first year after college.

I dont have the same data from 10+ years ago but I would guess this is a huge increase. More and more guys are continuing to play basketball professionally beyond college so college hoops is being treated more as a training ground for pro hoopers and less as a tool to leverage to get a degree that will aid the player in getting a regular job in their post-hoops life.

In other words - college basketball is doing, in a meaningful way, what college is supposed to do: it is putting participants in a position to make a career out of their interests.

If Alice learns to crunch numbers at MIT and Alice can get a great job at a tech firm with that skill with or without a degree, does it really matter if Alice got the degree?

The answer is only yes if you interpose your own values on Alice's decision.

[TDub]

Who's Alice? Are we recruiting her? We could use some solid number crunching next year....maybe she can help with this tax invasion problem I've heard of....

[ousdahl]

Gonna need to know Alice’s wingspan

[pdub]

You're like a college basketball hipster - weirdly, you're actively hoping the product gets worse and less popular.

I don't think the top prospects leaving will do as much as you think it will to college basketball so no, I'm not really hoping the product gets worse and less popular.

You are hoping for a thing that necessarily reduces the talent level of a sport you follow, because it gives you the willies that some kids want some dang money. It's weird!

I think you're weird.
And around and around we go.

[TDub]

Gonna need to know Alice’s wingspan

And typing speed

[Sparko]

The NBA is pretty thin on playing time as it is. A player’s league makes it hard to be shown up by a Second round scrapper or development guy. But every HS player sees himself as a max salary guy.