Lets talk reasons for mass shootings

[twocoach]

And then virtually every GOP president slashes funding that may help a low income person receive help and doubles down by slashing funding to groups who try to identify at risk persons like this before it's too late.

[jfish26]

And then virtually every GOP president slashes funding that may help a low income person receive help and doubles down by slashing funding to groups who try to identify at risk persons like this before it's too late.

Sure, because a social safety net = SOCIALISM!

[But also we'll take steps that kneecap charitable donations.]

[Deleted User 276]

51% of mass shooters are black? Less than 30% are white? Another media narrative out the window

https://www.frontpagemag.com/fpm/274538 ... greenfield

Ah, so NOW you want to throw all of the inner city gun violence stats in to skew the numbers. Got it.

Pretty sure that the "media narrative" around mass shootings is in relation to where someone show up and shoots at a workplace or a seemingly random location and opens fire, not in situations where gang members are shooting other gang members etc...

But sure, roll with it.

You sure say things that make it seem like you don't value black lives as much as white lives....now, I know you well enough to know that's not how you truly feel, but your comments give that off...I know it's not intentional. So I'm not attacking you, just trying to bring awareness since maybe you're not around a lot of people of color during your everyday life.

1) not every "inner city" mass shooting only takes the lives of gang members. That's blasphemous. The idea that there are just corners/blocks/neighborhoods where only gang members commit violence that doesn't impact anyone else is silly. Most black people aren't in gangs. Most inner city neighborhoods, even the poor ones you're thinking of, are filled with law abiding families/people in close proximity to these "corners" you've repeatedly mentioned. Hell, I'd venture to guess a lot of gang members live with their families who are not in gangs. Those neighborhoods, parks, streets, etc are also public places where normal everyday citizens occupy, not just gang members or predominately gang members.

2) not sure he's the only 1 throwing out the inner city mass shootings to skew the numbers. I've seen on CNN and MSNBC the 250+ mass shootings YTD thrown out non stop. Usually followed by some sort of statement that white men are the biggest threat to carry out mass shootings (when in reality it's just "men" period regardless of race)...white men do commit them in areas you're moat concerned about, likely because you're usually in predominately white areas? I don't know. Some/many White men mass shooters do seem to have a fetish for the fame and terror it causes in the media. We haven't had as many black mass shooters get the attention the white shooters have gotten, and that's fine. But inner city mass shootings are just as traumatic and terrorizing to those communities (even though you say you'd never find yourself anywhere near a bad neighborhood....although I'd encourage you to take a look at how close inner city mass shootings are taking place to areas where you wouldn't think you're in danger or some gang infested areas.

Not attacking you. Just wanted to mention some of those things for your own personal reflection/growth.

[twocoach]

51% of mass shooters are black? Less than 30% are white? Another media narrative out the window

https://www.frontpagemag.com/fpm/274538 ... greenfield

Ah, so NOW you want to throw all of the inner city gun violence stats in to skew the numbers. Got it.

Pretty sure that the "media narrative" around mass shootings is in relation to where someone show up and shoots at a workplace or a seemingly random location and opens fire, not in situations where gang members are shooting other gang members etc...

But sure, roll with it.

You sure say things that make it seem like you don't value black lives as much as white lives....now, I know you well enough to know that's not how you truly feel, but your comments give that off...I know it's not intentional. So I'm not attacking you, just trying to bring awareness since maybe you're not around a lot of people of color during your everyday life.

1) not every "inner city" mass shooting only takes the lives of gang members. That's blasphemous. The idea that there are just corners/blocks/neighborhoods where only gang members commit violence that doesn't impact anyone else is silly. Most black people aren't in gangs. Most inner city neighborhoods, even the poor ones you're thinking of, are filled with law abiding families/people in close proximity to these "corners" you've repeatedly mentioned. Hell, I'd venture to guess a lot of gang members live with their families who are not in gangs.

2) not sure he's the only 1 throwing out the inner city mass shootings to skew the numbers. I've seen on CNN and MSNBC the 250+ mass shootings YTD thrown out non stop. Usually followed by some sort of statement that white men are the biggest threat to carry out mass shootings (when in reality it's just "men" period regardless of race).

Not attacking you. Just wanted to mention some of those things for your own personal reflection/growth.

If you heard on the radio that there was "another mass shooting" would you first think of the violence going on in the inner cities or would you think of the random shooting that happened in places like Dayton, El Paso, etc...? I associated mass shootings with that level of randomness.

And yes, I am aware that random people get killed in inner city violence as well. Duh. But the vast majority of those incidents are in a completely different category in my opinion. Yes, if you purely define a mass shooting as an event where more than 4 people were shot then they fall within the criteria.

But to me, a mass shooting is more than just that. The difference has nothing to do with race; if two groups of white criminals are having a dispute and a shooting breaks out and more than 4 people are shot then that to me doesn't classify as a "mass shooting event" in my mind, even if some of the people involved are innocent bystanders.

To me, a mass shooting is when a shooter behaves with the sole purpose of killing as many people as possible and the targets are simply nameless, faceless victims to the shooter. It's a totally different reasoning. To me.

[Deleted User 89]

conflation of two separate issues

gun violence, vs domestic terrorism/mass shootings

[jfish26]

It looks more and more like even the two shootings just this past weekend were of very different flavors. And it is not at all comforting that the Dayton guy liked (on Twitter) the news of the El Paso shootings not long before venturing out himself.

[Deleted User 276]

You're doing it again @ twocoach.

Are you worried about stopping gun violence or are you only concerned about gun violence in areas where you might be?

To me, there's not much difference between a bar shooting or a shooting at a park. Both are public places where non criminals frequently occupy. People should be able to go to the park or go on a walk with their children without fearing for their lives.

It's the same to me.


Now, to make sure I'm equitable in my comments, I am totally fine with admitting white men are likely to shoot up a music festival where predominately white people are hanging out, which is an example you said you were afraid of. White men are more likely to shoot up a theatre in a white area. Etc.

Violence is the problem. Specifically violence by MEN.

[Deleted User 276]

conflation of two separate issues

gun violence, vs domestic terrorism/mass shootings

You don't think it counts as domestic terrorism because some occur in predominately black areas? Most of the people in those communities where this is taking place are law abiding citizens, not gang members. Go ask the residents of those communities if they don't feel terrorized by those mass shootings.

Both are domestic terrorism. And the solutions/possible solutions are the same for both.

[Deleted User 276]

What you guys want to focus on are mass shootings committed by white men against random citizens. And that's fine. It's a real problem. But don't downplay the flip side of the coin. Because both are an important issue that go hand in hand and deserve equal attention/consideration and effort put forth to help reduce and solve the problem. It's not only impacting gang members or killing gang members/suspected gang members.

[Deleted User 89]

i, personally, don’t necessarily consider gang violence domestic terrorism...though i haven’t given it much thought up until now

edit to add that, at least according to wiki, gang violence =\= domestic terrorism

but it’s wiki, so take that for what it’s worth

[jfish26]

conflation of two separate issues

gun violence, vs domestic terrorism/mass shootings

You don't think it counts as domestic terrorism because some occur in predominately black areas? Most of the people in those communities where this is taking place are law abiding citizens, not gang members. Go ask the residents of those communities if they don't feel terrorized by those mass shootings.

Both are domestic terrorism. And the solutions/possible solutions are the same for both.

I don't think it is helpful to call every mass shooting "domestic terrorism."

[Deleted User 276]

i, personally, don’t necessarily consider gang violence domestic terrorism...though i haven’t given it much thought up until now

That's because you're likely a middle or upper class white person who lives in a predominately white area/middle-upper class area?

Just because the shooter is in a gang doesn't make it any less traumatic for those communities. And the idea that all inner city mass shooters are gang members targeting other gang members is also a stretch. I'm sure many are not gang members (that term is very loosely thrown around these days)...and I'm sure many of the lives taken or impacted are non gang members as well. Which is why I consider it domestic terrorism as well.


But I totally get what you guys are saying. You're most concerned about violence in areas where you're likely to be. That's natural. But our attention and effort needs to be equitable to both scenarios.

[Deleted User 276]

conflation of two separate issues

gun violence, vs domestic terrorism/mass shootings

You don't think it counts as domestic terrorism because some occur in predominately black areas? Most of the people in those communities where this is taking place are law abiding citizens, not gang members. Go ask the residents of those communities if they don't feel terrorized by those mass shootings.

Both are domestic terrorism. And the solutions/possible solutions are the same for both.

I don't think it is helpful to call every mass shooting "domestic terrorism."

I agree.

Gang violence where only gang members are targeted or impacted should be classified as gang violence.....but I don't think some realize that the inner city mass shootings are impacting more than just gang members in a lot of instances. If it's impacting non gang members then it sure seems like domestic terrorism.

It can't only be domestic terrorism when it's a majority of white people who are being impacted. Or if its happening in non low income areas. That can't be the criteria.

[Deleted User 89]

nobody is saying gang violence is any less-traumatic for those it effects

there are definitions of domestic terrorism

i looked up one, have you?

[twocoach]

You're doing it again @ twocoach.

Are you worried about stopping gun violence or are you only concerned about gun violence in areas where you might be?

To me, there's not much difference between a bar shooting or a shooting at a park. Both are public places where non criminals frequently occupy. People should be able to go to the park or go on a walk with their children without fearing for their lives.

It's the same to me.


Now, to make sure I'm equitable in my comments, I am totally fine with admitting white men are likely to shoot up a music festival where predominately white people are hanging out, which is an example you said you were afraid of. White men are more likely to shoot up a theatre in a white area. Etc.

Violence is the problem. Specifically violence by MEN.

You chose an example that supports my point, not yours. A bar shooting and a park shooting are the same to me as well unless one of them was a gang member shooting up a bar to injure specific people while the other was what I am actually talking about.

[twocoach]

You don't think it counts as domestic terrorism because some occur in predominately black areas? Most of the people in those communities where this is taking place are law abiding citizens, not gang members. Go ask the residents of those communities if they don't feel terrorized by those mass shootings.

Both are domestic terrorism. And the solutions/possible solutions are the same for both.

I don't think it is helpful to call every mass shooting "domestic terrorism."

I agree.

Gang violence where only gang members are targeted or impacted should be classified as gang violence.....but I don't think some realize that the inner city mass shootings are impacting more than just gang members in a lot of instances. If it's impacting non gang members then it sure seems like domestic terrorism.

It can't only be domestic terrorism when it's a majority of white people who are being impacted. Or if its happening in non low income areas. That can't be the criteria.

If a person (regardless of their race) rolls up to a neighborhood party with the specific intent to kill a member of a rival gang, opens fire and kills 4 people while injuring 10 more (again, regardless the race of the victims) then to me that is not domestic terrorism.

If a person (regardless of their race) gets a hotel room in Vegas with the specific intent to kill as many random people as possible, regardless of their race, age, political affiliation, etc... then that is domestic terrorism.

If you still dont understand the difference despite multiple attempts by multiple people to help you understand then we should probably just let it go.

[Deleted User 276]

You seem to have a weird view of what inner city mass shootings actually involve. They're not all targeted hits on specific individuals.

Sure, of course some are gang member on gang member violence. Some are not.

One is gang violence (ONLY impacts gang members). One is domestic terrorism.

Not worth arguing about (what you do and don't consider domestic terrorism), because I think we both want the same things when it comes to reducing incidents of gun violence and domestic terrorism.

[imzcount]

https://theepochtimes.com/trump-fake-ne ... 30480.html

[twocoach]

i, personally, don’t necessarily consider gang violence domestic terrorism...though i haven’t given it much thought up until now

That's because you're likely a middle or upper class white person who lives in a predominately white area/middle-upper class area?

Just because the shooter is in a gang doesn't make it any less traumatic for those communities. And the idea that all inner city mass shooters are gang members targeting other gang members is also a stretch. I'm sure many are not gang members (that term is very loosely thrown around these days)...and I'm sure many of the lives taken or impacted are non gang members as well. Which is why I consider it domestic terrorism as well.


But I totally get what you guys are saying. You're most concerned about violence in areas where you're likely to be. That's natural. But our attention and effort needs to be equitable to both scenarios.

Way to create your own reason for us and then call it out. Same old Illy.

[Deleted User 276]

Guess you don't think I noticed how you were (still are) treated when I took a leave of absence... you probably aren't the most qualified person to be throwing out the "same old illy" comments. In fact iirc you were deemed "illy" when I was gone by a couple people.

You do the same shit. Except I was being genuine in my dialogue with both of you and you're usually just being a douchebag.

I even put a question mark after my comment, so I wasn't really making a reason for you because it's posed as a question.