Good grief. I'm not excusing trump, I'm ignoring him. If you can seperate the idea from the person who presented it you might be able to assess its value. 99 seems to be the only one around that can make that distinction.
If Biden or warren said it do you think it would be scoffed at and dismissed as moronic? Doubtful. It's more proof that any argument here is impossible to actually discuss. Nobody has given reasons why it's so "moronic" other than the fact that trump presented it.
No One Cares Because Nothing Matters Anymore
Re: No One Cares Because Nothing Matters Anymore
Just Ledoux it
Re: No One Cares Because Nothing Matters Anymore
It would be in America's interest if Trump gave a damn about how the preeminent power in the world should conduct itself.
Trump’s Greenland Plan Shows He Has No Idea How American Power Works. The U.S. doesn’t need to buy countries to rule the world.
President Trump announced on Tuesday that he would postpone a planned trip to Denmark because Prime Minister Mette Frederiksen refuses to consider selling Greenland to the United States. Ms. Frederiksen called the idea “absurd.” It might be, but it was also revealing. In seeking to purchase Greenland, Mr. Trump did more than rattle an ally. He demonstrated how little he understands the shape of American power.
Mr. Trump is right that Greenland is valuable. It has vast stores of zinc, copper, iron ore and uranium — all of which are becoming more accessible with global warming. It lies conveniently between North America and Eurasia. But his notion that the way to access this value is to buy it from another country is a throwback to the 19th century. Then, the United States bought or conquered a great deal of land, from the Louisiana Purchase in 1803 to the Philippine annexation in 1899. That pattern of forthright acquisition ended in the middle of the 20th century, though, as colonized people worldwide rebelled against empire and the United States found ways to achieve its ends without large land grabs.
The United States today gets key commodities like zinc, copper and iron ore on international markets. It does so with confidence, because many of its trading partners are connected to it via an intricate system of trade pacts and military alliances. Those alliances are backstopped by hundreds of American military bases around the world. The Pentagon lists 514 overseas bases, though there are surely more.
The United States’ network of power is hard to see. Maps show states, not the defense pacts and trade agreements that connect other countries to the United States, or the hundreds of foreign dots, some of them secret, over which Washington claims jurisdiction. Even if they were on the map, they would be hard to make out. Mash all the known base sites together and they total an area not much larger than Houston.
The result is that most American citizens have only the vaguest sense of the extent and character of the security system that makes their country so powerful. It seems Mr. Trump can be counted among them. “Strategically, it’s interesting,” he has said, concluding that the United States should therefore buy it.
What he misses is the fact that, strategically, the United States already has use of Greenland. After failing to acquire the territory in 1946, Washington cut a deal with Denmark that allowed it to operate bases in Greenland, the most important of which was Thule Air Base on the northwest coast. Over the objection of the Danish government, the United States military stored nuclear weapons in Greenland and flew nuclear-armed B-52’s over the country — part of a secret airborne alert program targeting the Soviet Union. Stanley Kubrick’s 1963 film “Dr. Strangelove,” filmed partly over Greenland, depicts this program.
In 1968, a B-52 flying near Thule with four Mark 28 hydrogen bombs crashed, hitting the ice at more than 500 miles per hour. The bombs didn’t detonate, but they spread radioactive debris for miles. From Greenland’s perspective, this was a hair-raising disaster, but from Washington’s it showed the benefits of foreign bases. The Air Force could make dangerous flights over Greenland with impunity.
Greenland also has strategic value as a source of raw materials. But here, too, the fact of its being foreign is no impediment. Denmark is a member of NATO and Greenland in 2013 lifted a ban on mining radioactive materials; nothing stands in the way of the United States purchasing what it needs. “We’re open for business,” Greenland’s foreign affairs ministry reassured Mr. Trump, in response to his talk of annexing the territory. That is true; Greenland and Denmark are so closely tied to the United States in both trade and defense that it is hard to imagine the relationship being severed.
The cost of secure trade and bases, however, is collaboration with foreigners, an activity the president does not relish. He has threatened to pull the United States out of so many treaties and trade agreements that it is easy to lose count. Though Mr. Trump celebrates American military might with parades and tanks, his 2017 budget proposed closing bases, and he has called to bring troops home from host countries that, in his view, pay too little. Mr. Trump wants power over the world, not presence in it.
His desired Greenland deal fits this pattern. The Pentagon’s longstanding strategy has been to negotiate use of Thule Air Base — still in operation — with Denmark. Mr. Trump’s plan is to buy Greenland, which is more than 2,000 times the size of the base, outright. Annexing Greenland rather than leasing the base would offer little strategic advantage. But it would remove foreign partners and the need for diplomacy from the equation...
The president’s misunderstanding should not be ours. Small points, not vast tracts of land, are the territorial expression of power today — think Thule Air Base, not Greenland. Bases like Thule extend the United States’ reach and stoke considerable resentment around the planet. To understand influence solely in terms of property would be to overlook the forms of power, which, for better or worse, shape our world.
Trump’s Greenland Plan Shows He Has No Idea How American Power Works. The U.S. doesn’t need to buy countries to rule the world.
President Trump announced on Tuesday that he would postpone a planned trip to Denmark because Prime Minister Mette Frederiksen refuses to consider selling Greenland to the United States. Ms. Frederiksen called the idea “absurd.” It might be, but it was also revealing. In seeking to purchase Greenland, Mr. Trump did more than rattle an ally. He demonstrated how little he understands the shape of American power.
Mr. Trump is right that Greenland is valuable. It has vast stores of zinc, copper, iron ore and uranium — all of which are becoming more accessible with global warming. It lies conveniently between North America and Eurasia. But his notion that the way to access this value is to buy it from another country is a throwback to the 19th century. Then, the United States bought or conquered a great deal of land, from the Louisiana Purchase in 1803 to the Philippine annexation in 1899. That pattern of forthright acquisition ended in the middle of the 20th century, though, as colonized people worldwide rebelled against empire and the United States found ways to achieve its ends without large land grabs.
The United States today gets key commodities like zinc, copper and iron ore on international markets. It does so with confidence, because many of its trading partners are connected to it via an intricate system of trade pacts and military alliances. Those alliances are backstopped by hundreds of American military bases around the world. The Pentagon lists 514 overseas bases, though there are surely more.
The United States’ network of power is hard to see. Maps show states, not the defense pacts and trade agreements that connect other countries to the United States, or the hundreds of foreign dots, some of them secret, over which Washington claims jurisdiction. Even if they were on the map, they would be hard to make out. Mash all the known base sites together and they total an area not much larger than Houston.
The result is that most American citizens have only the vaguest sense of the extent and character of the security system that makes their country so powerful. It seems Mr. Trump can be counted among them. “Strategically, it’s interesting,” he has said, concluding that the United States should therefore buy it.
What he misses is the fact that, strategically, the United States already has use of Greenland. After failing to acquire the territory in 1946, Washington cut a deal with Denmark that allowed it to operate bases in Greenland, the most important of which was Thule Air Base on the northwest coast. Over the objection of the Danish government, the United States military stored nuclear weapons in Greenland and flew nuclear-armed B-52’s over the country — part of a secret airborne alert program targeting the Soviet Union. Stanley Kubrick’s 1963 film “Dr. Strangelove,” filmed partly over Greenland, depicts this program.
In 1968, a B-52 flying near Thule with four Mark 28 hydrogen bombs crashed, hitting the ice at more than 500 miles per hour. The bombs didn’t detonate, but they spread radioactive debris for miles. From Greenland’s perspective, this was a hair-raising disaster, but from Washington’s it showed the benefits of foreign bases. The Air Force could make dangerous flights over Greenland with impunity.
Greenland also has strategic value as a source of raw materials. But here, too, the fact of its being foreign is no impediment. Denmark is a member of NATO and Greenland in 2013 lifted a ban on mining radioactive materials; nothing stands in the way of the United States purchasing what it needs. “We’re open for business,” Greenland’s foreign affairs ministry reassured Mr. Trump, in response to his talk of annexing the territory. That is true; Greenland and Denmark are so closely tied to the United States in both trade and defense that it is hard to imagine the relationship being severed.
The cost of secure trade and bases, however, is collaboration with foreigners, an activity the president does not relish. He has threatened to pull the United States out of so many treaties and trade agreements that it is easy to lose count. Though Mr. Trump celebrates American military might with parades and tanks, his 2017 budget proposed closing bases, and he has called to bring troops home from host countries that, in his view, pay too little. Mr. Trump wants power over the world, not presence in it.
His desired Greenland deal fits this pattern. The Pentagon’s longstanding strategy has been to negotiate use of Thule Air Base — still in operation — with Denmark. Mr. Trump’s plan is to buy Greenland, which is more than 2,000 times the size of the base, outright. Annexing Greenland rather than leasing the base would offer little strategic advantage. But it would remove foreign partners and the need for diplomacy from the equation...
The president’s misunderstanding should not be ours. Small points, not vast tracts of land, are the territorial expression of power today — think Thule Air Base, not Greenland. Bases like Thule extend the United States’ reach and stoke considerable resentment around the planet. To understand influence solely in terms of property would be to overlook the forms of power, which, for better or worse, shape our world.
“The Electoral College is DEI for rural white folks.”
Derek Cressman
Derek Cressman
Re: No One Cares Because Nothing Matters Anymore
So "nasty":
“The Electoral College is DEI for rural white folks.”
Derek Cressman
Derek Cressman
Re: No One Cares Because Nothing Matters Anymore
From a member of the Danish Parliament:
“The Electoral College is DEI for rural white folks.”
Derek Cressman
Derek Cressman
Re: No One Cares Because Nothing Matters Anymore
The reason Warren and Biden, or no one else for that matter, didn’t say it is because it IS moronic. I can’t believe I have to explain to you why it’s moronic. The same reason why you think it’s a good idea to buy is the same reason that the current owner thinks it’s a good idea not to sell. Secondly when was the last time one country bought another country’s territory?? I’m sure Denmark will gladly sell mining rights for a really good price - extra for the USA, thanks to the Moron-in-Chief.TDub wrote: ↑Sat Aug 24, 2019 8:15 pm
If Biden or warren said it do you think it would be scoffed at and dismissed as moronic? Doubtful. It's more proof that any argument here is impossible to actually discuss. Nobody has given reasons why it's so "moronic" other than the fact that trump presented it.
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Deleted User 89
Re: No One Cares Because Nothing Matters Anymore
anybody seen the mines in china where the rare metals have been extracted
fucking beautiful, i tell you
fucking beautiful, i tell you
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Deleted User 266
Re: No One Cares Because Nothing Matters Anymore
No but I have seen this mine and know the dude who owns it.
https://www.wsj.com/articles/prized-rar ... 1543505973
https://www.cnbc.com/2019/05/30/if-we-c ... -mine.html
https://www.wsj.com/articles/prized-rar ... 1543505973
https://www.cnbc.com/2019/05/30/if-we-c ... -mine.html
Re: No One Cares Because Nothing Matters Anymore
I cant believe I have to explain this to you but this indicates that the idea itself isnt moronic. You may not like the way it was presented. But the idea I'd acquiring greenland isnt moronic and you cant negotiate or or find out what it would take without asking.
Did people call Truman "moronic" in 1946 or 47. Whichever it was.
Just Ledoux it
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Deleted User 89
Re: No One Cares Because Nothing Matters Anymore
it was obviously a different ball game for truman, following WWII and with with the relative lack of technology at the time. it made a lot of sense from a military/strategic standpoint then, just to have better access to europe
i just don’t see it now, personally...regardless of how drumpf went about it
i just don’t see it now, personally...regardless of how drumpf went about it
Re: No One Cares Because Nothing Matters Anymore
Actually, I read about Greenland's value, but you're so biased that I knew you would disparage anything I said as "Just another liberal female who doesn't like Trump." Had a neighbor who was an engineer and stationed at Thule when he was in the USAF, so I went and read about the value and possibilities of Greenland. Since Trump reads nothing and listens to no one, I assumed that he would pay no attention to a Swedish scientist and that to defend him, you wouldn't either.
But, yes, I believe that the idea is probably moronic because a prominent Texas oilman called Trump a "fucking moron" and I believe that he knew what he was talking about.
Minik Rosing a geologist and professor of natural history at the University of Copenhagen, is the co-author of a 2014 report that examined Greenland’s mineral resources, along with the financial and environmental benefits and challenges of mining them. He spoke with The Times about why Trump might be interested in Greenland, the natural resources it has, and how their value might change thanks to global warming.
https://www.latimes.com/environment/sto ... land-worth
Don't inject Lysol.
Re: No One Cares Because Nothing Matters Anymore
Where have I ever said anything like that? Are you confusing me with lobster? Feral presents plenty of ideas without any attacking for being a "female liberal". You didn't attempt to discuss anything, you started with accusing me of excusing trump. I dont even like trump. You're off your rocker seahawk.seahawk wrote: ↑Sun Aug 25, 2019 11:01 amActually, I read about Greenland's value, but you're so biased that I knew you would disparage anything I said as "Just another liberal female who doesn't like Trump." Had a neighbor who was an engineer and stationed at Thule when he was in the USAF, so I went and read about the value and possibilities of Greenland. Since Trump reads nothing and listens to no one, I assumed that he would pay no attention to a Swedish scientist and that to defend him, you wouldn't either.
But, yes, I believe that the idea is probably moronic because a prominent Texas oilman called Trump a "fucking moron" and I believe that he knew what he was talking about.
Minik Rosing a geologist and professor of natural history at the University of Copenhagen, is the co-author of a 2014 report that examined Greenland’s mineral resources, along with the financial and environmental benefits and challenges of mining them. He spoke with The Times about why Trump might be interested in Greenland, the natural resources it has, and how their value might change thanks to global warming.
https://www.latimes.com/environment/sto ... land-worth
Just Ledoux it
Re: No One Cares Because Nothing Matters Anymore
And wait.....now we believe what texas oilmen say because they're the good guys? How convenient.
Just Ledoux it
Re: No One Cares Because Nothing Matters Anymore
And I dont want the minerals....I want the fresh water and control of the potential new shipping lanes.
Just Ledoux it
Re: No One Cares Because Nothing Matters Anymore
I do!
In fact, as a lawyer I once slept with always says:
"I want it all.
I want it now.
And I want it delivered."
“The Electoral College is DEI for rural white folks.”
Derek Cressman
Derek Cressman
Re: No One Cares Because Nothing Matters Anymore
Drilling 4,000' down to bring up oil from beneath the ocean floor vs. building shoddy condos that only Russian money launderers will buy?
I'll take Texas oilmen for $1,000.
Don't inject Lysol.
Re: No One Cares Because Nothing Matters Anymore
“The Electoral College is DEI for rural white folks.”
Derek Cressman
Derek Cressman
Re: No One Cares Because Nothing Matters Anymore
“The Electoral College is DEI for rural white folks.”
Derek Cressman
Derek Cressman
Re: No One Cares Because Nothing Matters Anymore
Wtf are you talking about and what does it have to do with anything? I'm not talking about drilling for oil or holding condos, you are the only one bringing up texas oilmen and how in this, and only this, particular instance you believe them.
Nice distraction from you calling me a trump loving misogynist though. I'd like an explanation on that.
Just Ledoux it
Re: No One Cares Because Nothing Matters Anymore
A number of us have already stated that the only reason to do it is to rape the land of natural resources. I thought it was a given that people understood that raping the land of natural resources was a bad thing. My bad.TDub wrote: ↑Sat Aug 24, 2019 8:15 pm Good grief. I'm not excusing trump, I'm ignoring him. If you can seperate the idea from the person who presented it you might be able to assess its value. 99 seems to be the only one around that can make that distinction.
If Biden or warren said it do you think it would be scoffed at and dismissed as moronic? Doubtful. It's more proof that any argument here is impossible to actually discuss. Nobody has given reasons why it's so "moronic" other than the fact that trump presented it.
You'd likely have a severe decrease in the amount of ice covering Greenland if you open it up to mining these resources, which could have a traumatic impact on global sea levels. Again, I assumed apparently incorrectly that people would understand that.