Shoe money trial

[jfish26]

We are collateral damage in this dumb FBI investigation.

Don't they need to be doing something else more important than this? Do these guys really deserve to go to jail over this?

In my opinion the dirtiest mother fucker I've seen in all of this is Fenny Falagmne or however you spell it.

Eh, I can think of others.

[Lonestarjayhawk]

When the Not Guilty verdict comes back, there will less likely any consequences or repercussions for Kansas and/or Self. Not saying Self is innocent but the NCAA won’t have the definite smoking gun to take down a blue blood. They will rule SDS pay back the $2500 and set him down thru December. No vacated games. No other penalties.

[Deleted User 75]

When the Not Guilty verdict comes back, there will less likely any consequences or repercussions for Kansas and/or Self. Not saying Self is innocent but the NCAA won’t have the definite smoking gun to take down a blue blood. They will rule SDS pay back the $2500 and set him down thru December. No vacated games. No other penalties.

Um what?

If there is a not guilty verdict it will be because no real laws were broken. The guys on trial pretty much admit the stuff that relates to NCAA rules being broken is true.

Guilty or not guilty in a court of law is irrelevant to the NCAA decision on punishment. I'm pretty sure that text between KT and the Adidas guy can be used against us by the NCAA even through it wasn't allowed in the trial. That's not made up evidence, it really happened, it just wasn't allowed in court as presented.

This whole "they won't take down a blueblood" theory sounds incredibly arrogant and ignorant.

[sdoyel]

Evidence for what? A kid who went to Duke?

[ousdahl]

Does Duke bench Zion?

[Deleted User 75]

Does Duke bench Zion?

Are there any Nike guys on trial?

Without the FBI doing the investigation the NCAA would (and has) have a hard time catching or proving any of this (and have for decades). So unless some nike guys get indicted then I'm not sure the ncaa will ever see the nike side of these convos for these various players.

[Geezer]

Three coaches charged are from Nike schools.

[Deleted User 75]

Three coaches charged are from Nike schools.

Ya, but I thought that (the nike coaches) was related to steering players towards financial advisors and not paying them to go to a nike school?...it's hard to keep up so I could be completely off. Maybe that's sort of the same thing anyway. Fuck, who knows.

[Lonestarjayhawk]

All of those texts can be explained with different context too. They mean nothing by themselves. The most important question was ‘did Self know you were paying him?’ Answer: ‘no, he didn’t.’

The NCAA won’t use part of testimony and ignore the other part. And when this trial ends in a NOT GUILTY verdict, there will be little desire to continue. There will be tough talk about new rules or oversight but nothing comes of this than a slap on the wrist for SDS taking $2500. He sits for 6-8 games. He is back for league play.

[holidaysmore]

If anything this had better be a clear wake up call to the mens coaching staff that they all better get Nextel chirp phones, burner phones and a Hilary Clinton style email server.

I imagine the mens basketball office right now like the scene from the movie Argo when the Iranian activists are heading towards the central command center. Burn it all. Dispose of it all. Anything that could be considered sensitive GET. RID. OF. IT. NOW.

[jfish26]

All of those texts can be explained with different context too. They mean nothing by themselves. The most important question was ‘did Self know you were paying him?’ Answer: ‘no, he didn’t.’

The NCAA won’t use part of testimony and ignore the other part. And when this trial ends in a NOT GUILTY verdict, there will be little desire to continue. There will be tough talk about new rules or oversight but nothing comes of this than a slap on the wrist for SDS taking $2500. He sits for 6-8 games. He is back for league play.

The prosecution has told the NCAA to hold off on enforcement actions until the related trials (which haven’t started and won’t be done until the middle of next year) are done. Unless something changes, the NCAA isn’t going to do anything about Silvio. It will be up to us to decide the risk we want to take.

[Deleted User 89]

as much as i'd like them to just say fuck it, and play him around conference time, it'd be rather foolish of them to do so

[twocoach]

What's funny to me is that KU is holding off on signing their Adidas contract. In my opinion, KU's "response" to this should be to dump Adidas and switch back to Nike. We look like we're making a moral stand while actually switching to the biggest cheaters in the sport. Nike is simply better at this stuff than Adidas.

Then we move into the top tier of recruits more and come out of this stronger than ever. Sure we have to apend a little more money be ause the Nike contract will be smaller but we get that money back and then some by the recruiting benefits.

It's like saying you're electing Donald Trump because you don't like the DC swamp. You get to claim mkral high ground that you want to clean things up while benefitting from the dirtier than ever new group.

[twocoach]

as much as i'd like them to just say fuck it, and play him around conference time, it'd be rather foolish of them to do so

We dont need SDS. Time to cut bait and give more minutes to the massive McDonalds All American behind him on the depth chart.

A nice problem to have...

[MICHHAWK]

Casualty count so far:

sds
kt

Who's next?

[twocoach]

Casualty count so far:

sds
kt

Who's next?

KT isnt going anywhere. Reprimand him for considering a recruit's demands and move on. If we actually did do the stuff and landed Zion then fire him.

Does hearing Zion's demands make anyone wonder about the Morris twins mom moving to Lawrence?

[jfish26]

What's funny to me is that KU is holding off on signing their Adidas contract. In my opinion, KU's "response" to this should be to dump Adidas and switch back to Nike. We look like we're making a moral stand while actually switching to the biggest cheaters in the sport. Nike is simply better at this stuff than Adidas.

Then we move into the top tier of recruits more and come out of this stronger than ever. Sure we have to apend a little more money be ause the Nike contract will be smaller but we get that money back and then some by the recruiting benefits.

It's like saying you're electing Donald Trump because you don't like the DC swamp. You get to claim mkral high ground that you want to clean things up while benefitting from the dirtier than ever new group.

Yeah, except it's not hard to think that Adidas has a metric fuckton of leverage over us right now.

[jfish26]

Needless to say I heartily agree with much of this.

Will KU coach Bill Self have courage to make change in wake of Adidas trial revelations?

http://www.kansascity.com/sports/spt-co ... =mainstage

[A]t some point the NCAA is going to decide between two paths:

Continue to do what has so far been best for its profitability, or decide to now do what’s best for its credibility.

Bit by tantalizing bit, the truth of how high-profile coaches perform a sort of shadow dance with largely anonymous street brokers armed with grand ambition and grander expense accounts is being better understood by the public. And at some point, eight-figure coaches like Kansas’ Bill Self are going to decide between two paths:

Continue with this mostly unspoken code that prioritizes plausible deniability and leaves everyone involved diminished for the trouble, or push from the inside for sensible change that history will remember as overdue but right.

Change can happen, but it will require some who currently benefit from the status quo to speak out and risk some professional capital. Nobody is better positioned for this than Self, a Hall of Fame inductee and national champion who’s already made tens of millions and can make even more in the NBA whenever he chooses.

[...]

This has always been college basketball’s ugly and inconvenient truth, the whole thing so baked into the sport’s fabric that some coaches have long differentiated between “legal” cheating and “cheating cheating.”

Legal cheating typically works like this: a shoe company pays the relative of a high-profile recruit, say, $100,000 to operate a sort of pop-up AAU team. The company knows the team’s cost might just be half that amount, leaving the rest for the relative to share or pass with the recruit.

In a more sensible world, that’s not even the part that would’ve spurred action. No, the part that would’ve spurred action is that the shoe company’s take in this transaction is so indirect and hopeful — some marginal return on helping a particular college program win, and the unenforceable expectation that the recruit will sign for more money if and when he becomes a marketable professional.

That should have told the NCAA that the system was broken, that if the rules made up by a bureaucracy were regularly and brazenly broken by a free market that valued the talent involved so much more than the rules allowed, then something needed to change.

But the NCAA found comfort in those rules, because barring athletes from being paid had a doubly beneficial effect: It meant more cash for the suits in charge, and a fairytale of college kids working hard for school pride to sell to a customer base that’s always wanted to be fooled.

The system has benefited too many to be curtailed. The coaches have become rock stars, the rules give cover for athletic departments to load up on six-figure-salaried administrators, and they all eat well off the residual glory of the games themselves.

The only ones who don’t benefit are the athletes who wear the pressure and work of their million-dollar coaches in exchange for a benefits package that does not include a salary but does include an education many of them have been pushed to disregard.

[...]

Sensible change is long overdue. Let shoe companies and agents pay recruits. As long as the risk is on the adults — athletes are free to take the money and eventually sign with a competitor — then who is harmed? It’s happening anyway, except market forces and artificial rules are literally turning it into a federal investigation.

If the rules are loosened, athletes can get more of their fair value, coaches aren’t pushed into these dark corners and use of code words, and shoe companies would be given the legitimacy they deserve after funding an enterprise that’s already made millionaires of so many.

If it can be proven that Self or any other coach knew about a payment and played the athlete anyway, that coach will be deservedly fired and shamed. But that’s an entirely naive pursuit, one that would guarantee nothing more than a promotion for an FBI investigator to work more useful cases. Any coach fired for breaking rules will be replaced by another just as likely to break the same rules.

This system needs an overhaul, or this obnoxious cycle will continue — feigned outrage that a handful of recruits are being paid a small fraction of the value placed on them by a free market.

That change can start now, and Self or anyone else with major-program power can be the catalyst.

But, no big deal either way. If those in charge fail to act, they’ll have another chance soon, and another soon after that, on and on until someone with the right combination of security and sense has the courage to speak up.

[NewtonHawk11]

I think KT is more gone than safe. There is a straight trace from him to the adidas bag guy basically saying "We'll have to do whatever to match or exceed to get Zion here for 10 months"

And SDS is definitely not playing until the NCAA says that everything is good. If they don't get that clearance, than he won't play. Pretty simple.

But the Zion recruitment was so strange. It seemed like it was down to Clemson and UNC. KU and Duke each had visits, but not serious players. Then out of the blue, he chooses Duke. Was fishy at the time, and now we know why he chose them. Dad got paid more and got more benefits.

Seeing the Zion news was the best thing for KU all day. Yes it showed a direct link to an assistant, but it also showed that KU was willing to match any offers, but he still went elsewhere. Which means someone (Duke) paid more and offered more stuff. So while the last couple of days weren't the best for KU, it helped that his name was brought up.

[Deleted User 83]

I think the KT texts are clearly more of an indictment of Duke than anything.