KU basketball expected to face multiple major violation allegations from NCAA:

[DCHawk1]

Nah. CnB is talking about the graduation "gifts" to players that Roi arranged and that earned us probation.

After his departure, natch.

[Kyblueblood]

I suspect Coach K knew beforehand something was going to happen. It is strange that the longtime “Coach in waiting” Jeff Capel who has a histor, landed star after star to dUKe. And quit the dUKe job in March 2018 to take the job at Pitt.
Was it getting him away from the program? They were landing top 1-5 talent like no one in history. Even Calipari, cheating or not never got players like that. Since 2014, Cal was 0-15 on top 5 players. He has got 1 for 2020. That is 5-6 recruiting cycles.

I don’t expect much to come from the KU allegations. Something that stings a little, Self will be fine, he’s a HOF Coach and good for college basketball.
He might consider letting Townsend go. Even before this season starts. Get everyone else on board and KU has a great chance at a championship.

Rick Pitino and UL, my God they got hammered. Yet the NCAA did their dance and let UNC off. They make the rules up as they go. If they are not into the academic end, why do they suspend some for grades?
7 years ago, Calipari said the NCAA would be gone in 10 years. I hope it’s sooner. Most Kentucky fans I have noticed are more flipping the finger to the NCAA and are not reveling in these accusations, even if true.

[hartjack8]

CNB -
Once again, I didn't "cite" anything specific. I assume you are referring to the DJax fiasco? Yes? No?
Either way, fine. We won't say anything DJax related happened under Self - although I do feel it's debatable. That's ok, we can go ahead and blame it on the Roy era.
Actually, I was thinking more along the lines of Bill hiring K.T..
Who you know, had a stellar history in terms of his relationship/s with the NCAA. That's sarcasm for those who are unaware of his past history.
I'm thinking about things such as how all of a sudden Julian Wright decided he wanted to come to KU. How it's interesting that C.J. Giles and Rod Stewart decided to follow an ASSISTANT coach to KU. Stuff like that.
I know, it was all kosher - in the eyes of the deniers. Sorry kids, I'm not buying it.
Don't get me wrong, I fully realize Larry Brown and Roy Williams weren't exactly choir boys either.
I'll admit I am a pussy because I allow this shit to bother me. The "shit" is that these men are hired to represent the University of Kansas and they get paid a shit load of money to do it - and they have given our program a black eye.

WTF typical Gutter.....it is not the colleges it is the shoe companies dipshit. Because the NCAA is either totally clueless or more likely complicite they will try to act in a way to protect their cash cow which is the NCAA basketball tourney. Any reasonable person can see it is the shoe companies funding the corruption not donors of the schools. The market is what it is and it is not being driven by Kansas or Adidas. Lets look at what we Know. Preston got money and he was ranked #20. Highest kid we could get so go back and look at 1-19. I know you are a dipshit so I will help but the majority of those kids got paid by NIKE and ended up at NIKE schools. So Bill was dealing with a market place that was being dominated by others. I absolutely don't blame Bill for anything but trying to manage a very tough situation that the shoe companies are causing.

Look at #1 in that class-Bagley who's Dad was hired by NIKE to coach in a NIKE league who ended up going to DUKE a NIKE school. I know, it was all kosher-dipshit.

[Deleted User 266]

Horray! Another person who is incapable of having a respectful discussion without calling someone a derogatory name. Does it make you feel better about yourself to behave that way towards a fellow Jayhawk fan? If so, I'm honored to have that affect on you and be of service.
Anyways, seems you're not on the same page as me - as your post attests to.
Of course the shoe companies fund corruption. Is that all we are discussing here? Just the shoe companies and their funding corruption? That's not all I was discussing.
Are you trying to tell me the donors of the schools aren't also involved in "corruption"?
You don't think the Bill Selfs and Kurtis Townsends of the college basketball world are involved in the "corruption"?
You can blame the shoe companies for whatever you want (and you're in no way wrong for doing as such) and you can absolve Self of guilt for whatever you choose (and you're completely wrong for doing as such). Thing is you and I, and your and my opinions don't really fucking matter.
The NCAA matters. Shoe companies and all, we (KU) are facing the repercussions because of it - and Self and company's actions in relation to it.
Yes it sucks, yes it seems unfair, but we (KU/Bill Self and company) are far from being innocent here.

[CrimsonNBlue]

CNB -
Once again, I didn't "cite" anything specific. I assume you are referring to the DJax fiasco? Yes? No?
Either way, fine. We won't say anything DJax related happened under Self - although I do feel it's debatable. That's ok, we can go ahead and blame it on the Roy era.
Actually, I was thinking more along the lines of Bill hiring K.T..
Who you know, had a stellar history in terms of his relationship/s with the NCAA. That's sarcasm for those who are unaware of his past history.
I'm thinking about things such as how all of a sudden Julian Wright decided he wanted to come to KU. How it's interesting that C.J. Giles and Rod Stewart decided to follow an ASSISTANT coach to KU. Stuff like that.
I know, it was all kosher - in the eyes of the deniers. Sorry kids, I'm not buying it.
Don't get me wrong, I fully realize Larry Brown and Roy Williams weren't exactly choir boys either.
I'll admit I am a pussy because I allow this shit to bother me. The "shit" is that these men are hired to represent the University of Kansas and they get paid a shit load of money to do it - and they have given our program a black eye.

Gutter - you kept saying "since 03/04," so I was asking what you were referring to. We did go on probation around that time for the reasons that DC cited--that is, Roy's actions. So again, is that what you are referring to?

I am well aware of KT's perceived reputation prior to KU, but I am unaware of any particular trouble with the NCAA. And, quite simply, it's a pretty weak attempt to paint KT as dirty merely for landing a couple of recruits, especially ones that are from the same area as he. If an assistant is dirty because he landed a recruit, then every single assistant is dirty. Newsflash, that is who is doing the recruiting!

I don't know if the shit KT does is kosher. In fact, I think everyone here is arguing that what is going on is not what the NCAA pretends is going on. I am not dumb enough to think that Darrell Arthur "had a dream" the night before his commitment that made him spurn Baylor for Kansas. But, I'm also not going to lose my shit and think I have some "gotcha" moment when the underbelly of the entire thing is exposed.

[Trustee]

I think I'm more concerned about the process than the outcome.

How so?

Who cares about the ball as long as it’s happy and fun?

As long as this process is ongoing, recruiting (not to mention the morale of a head coach I like a lot) is likely to be rough. And this might go on for years. I'm glad they're fighting it. It'd be insane and idiotic not to.

But anytime the NCAA has a problem with a kid or a school, to come to a resolution there is a process that is inherently punitive. The kid sits and the school has a toxic cloud over it. And in the end, maybe the sitting and the cloud were warranted. Maybe they weren't.

But I think that cloud could be as bad or worse than any punishment eventually leveled against the bball program. I'm also a schmuck and often wrong.

[Deleted User 266]

CNB - Right now I am physically tired and frankly I am mentally tired of discussing KU basketball with people but I want to respond to your post.
I just threw out the years 03/04 because that's when Self established himself at KU. The beginning of the Self era and there were indeed things that carried from Roy to Bill but there were things that started under Bill too. That's why I mentioned the bringing in of K.T.. Can't fault Bill for bringing in a guy who can recruit but I find it interesting out of all the choices out there - K.T. was the guy Self wanted and he wasn't exactly coming in known as a squeaky clean guy.

I think this article pretty much paints a picture of K.T. before his KU days and I feel it is definitely a precursor to what he's been directly and indirectly involved in at KU.
https://www.seattlepi.com/sports/articl ... 146755.php

Look, I may be way off base with my assessments and assumptions but there are facts in terms of Bill Self's tenure at KU. Undeniable facts and/of a history of violations. We have been far from a "clean" program.

[hartjack8]

I suspect Coach K knew beforehand something was going to happen. It is strange that the longtime “Coach in waiting” Jeff Capel who has a histor, landed star after star to dUKe. And quit the dUKe job in March 2018 to take the job at Pitt.
Was it getting him away from the program? They were landing top 1-5 talent like no one in history. Even Calipari, cheating or not never got players like that. Since 2014, Cal was 0-15 on top 5 players. He has got 1 for 2020. That is 5-6 recruiting cycles.

I don’t expect much to come from the KU allegations. Something that stings a little, Self will be fine, he’s a HOF Coach and good for college basketball.
He might consider letting Townsend go. Even before this season starts. Get everyone else on board and KU has a great chance at a championship.

Rick Pitino and UL, my God they got hammered. Yet the NCAA did their dance and let UNC off. They make the rules up as they go. If they are not into the academic end, why do they suspend some for grades?
7 years ago, Calipari said the NCAA would be gone in 10 years. I hope it’s sooner. Most Kentucky fans I have noticed are more flipping the finger to the NCAA and are not reveling in these accusations, even if true.

So close to the the truth. This all got out of hand when UK gave Cal the job. World wide Wes and Cal were getting everyone they wanted or that NIKE could buy for them. And yes it ended when Coach K woke up one day and told NIKE he wanted them. This was not out of control until Cal got his hands in the cookie jar.

Let's look at that 2017 class again. Duke 1, 2, 7 and 17. Then Cal gets his 10,11,12,15.18.26 and 31.
So Adidas gets us #20 and it is all kosher.

The way I see it the one and done rule started the shoe companies down the path of corrupting the college game. Coach Cal just took advantage of the market place knowing that it was in NIKE's best interest to get the best high school players into NIKE schools. Took Coach K a minute to realize that he should be getting the NIKE cream of the crop.

The colleges are in a bad spot in between the NBA and the shoe companies with NCAA making a billion dollars on its basketball tourney. The NCAA and the economics of this has lead to the black market.
The 2005 NBA All-Star game featured seven straight out of High School draftees. Still it was a huge gamble so the one and done rule is put in place. Do you think it hurts the NBA one bit that Zion spent a year at DUKE. Nope. Do you think it hurt DUKE? Nope. Do you think it hurt the NCAA basketball tourney? Nope. So did NIKE take care of business and get Zion. Looks that way but can you blame them? Nope

So then we have this FBI investigation that started with a thief trying to plea out and spun into a.........total waste of taxpayers money. Which leads us to the NCAA trying to save face and pretend their head is not buried two feet deep in the sand. The NCAA has one goal which is to keep the NCAA basketball tourney to themselves. Does it hurt the NCAA if they drop the hammer on KANSAS. Nope.
It is what they need to save face.

For some reason the De Sousa dealings with the NCAA give me a bad feeling about this. He gets smashed for two years and then they decide to let him play. It's feels like the NCAA woke up and decided to let the kid play because they going to give KANSAS the hammer. It really comes down to the Adidas guys being labeled as boosters. If they are we are in big trouble.

[Cascadia]

CNB - Right now I am physically tired and frankly I am mentally tired of discussing KU basketball with people but I want to respond to your post.
I just threw out the years 03/04 because that's when Self established himself at KU. The beginning of the Self era and there were indeed things that carried from Roy to Bill but there were things that started under Bill too. That's why I mentioned the bringing in of K.T.. Can't fault Bill for bringing in a guy who can recruit but I find it interesting out of all the choices out there - K.T. was the guy Self wanted and he wasn't exactly coming in known as a squeaky clean guy.

I think this article pretty much paints a picture of K.T. before his KU days and I feel it is definitely a precursor to what he's been directly and indirectly involved in at KU.
https://www.seattlepi.com/sports/articl ... 146755.php

Look, I may be way off base with my assessments and assumptions but there are facts in terms of Bill Self's tenure at KU. Undeniable facts and/of a history of violations. We have been far from a "clean" program.

for all of those who feel tl:dr


Gutter is a fucking psycho. He refuses, but needs serious psychological help.

[Deleted User 266]

Casca is another KU fan who chooses to be an asshole towards other KU fans - and tells OTHERS they need psychological help. Hypocrisy at its finest?
FWIW, I have some shame in knowing and admitting I "need" psychological help - and I get it.
I know, it doesn't work / hasn't worked. Ha ha.
I wouldn't wish my "issues" on anyone. That's ok, let's continue to bully the guy with the mental problems - because hey - we're in a society where people feel it's cool and fun to make fun of people with mental (and physical) problems.
Let's just hope those who get bullied aren't gun owners - but that's a topic for a different thread.

Back on topic.......
5 questions.
1) Who is ultimately responsible for a "lack of institutional control"?

2) Is this the 3rd time since Self has been at KU where KU has been nailed for a lack of "institutional control"? 2nd time? 4th time? Yes, I realize the 1st time it was the repercussions of issues during of Roy's tenure. How ever many times it's been, really? It has happened multiple times? Why?

3) I love Kansas Basketball. I take pride in being a KU Basketball fan. I get grief for being a KU basketball fan when shit like this goes down. Mostly good natured grief but grief none the less.
I can have civil conversations with people - and I do. At what point is it ok for me to admit our program has been riddled with embarrassments, scandals, and violations since the Brown era and say - you're right, it's shameful?

4) What would it take for people to say, it's time for Bill Self to move on?
I'm not there yet but I'm damn close. I'll say it again, I like Bill Self. Bill Self is a good man. Problem is Bill Self has a long history of shit happening under his tutelage. I'm confident if we haven't had the success we have under him, a lot more people would be ready for him to move on. Seems like people are ok with winning at whatever cost.

5) Two parter. How many years before the NCAA (and their archaic rules) is disbanded? Why hasn't it happened yet?

[pdub]

If someone ( the FBI? ) went digging into schools like Duke and UNC they would also find what is considered lack of institutional control. I have zero doubt.

I wouldn't go as far as shameful, but yea, it's a black eye, and needs to be fixed.
If that means going after lesser heralded recruits, so be it.
Self's involved in it -- I just think he's too good a coach to consider letting go at this point and you hope that KU escapes the mad king of the NCAA with medium to mild penalties -- and that he decides to stay at Kansas and figure out different ways to win.

And then I guess you just hope that the larger schools get caught as well.

[CrimsonNBlue]

2) Is this the 3rd time since Self has been at KU where KU has been nailed for a lack of "institutional control"? 2nd time? 4th time? Yes, I realize the 1st time it was the repercussions of issues during of Roy's tenure. How ever many times it's been, really? It has happened multiple times? Why?

This would only be the 2nd time that KU has been alleged for LOIC. And, as you stated, the first time KU was cited for LOIC, it was because of violations during the Roy era.

So, your remaining questions are unanswerable.

[NewtonHawk11]

Yikes...

https://www.espn.com/mens-college-baske ... season-ban

If Ga Tech gets a postseason ban and scholarship reductions for 2 Level 1 and no LOIC charges, Kansas is going to get a hammer unless KU proves otherwise.

[pdub]

Probs.

[NewtonHawk11]

All depends on whether KU can disprove Gassanola was a booster (After saying he was "hypothetically")

[TDub]

Yikes...

https://www.espn.com/mens-college-baske ... season-ban

If Ga Tech gets a postseason ban and scholarship reductions for 2 Level 1 and no LOIC charges, Kansas is going to get a hammer unless KU proves otherwise.

Yet another school getting hammered for a Duke recruit. It's all bullshit.

[NewtonHawk11]

Yeah it is quite hilarious that Duke keeps getting brought up in these things, but ya know, the Brotherhood is all it's about!

[CrimsonNBlue]

All depends on whether KU can disprove Gassanola was a booster (After saying he was "hypothetically")

Are we sure the burden is on KU?

[JayhawkInIowa726]

I think the burden of proof is on KU when the NCAA is involved.. They don't exactly work on an innocent until proven guilty standard.

Also: interesting article that seems pretty neutral analyzing the NCAA's motives and goals with this. It doesn't seem to reach conclusions about what will happen, just what has and why.

https://www.theringer.com/2019/9/25/208 ... wks-adidas

[Judy_Jayhawk]

Just to lighten this up...Kevin Kietzman crawled out from under his rock. I got a google alert yesterday saying he was interviewed by KSuck assholes and spoke about Ksuck's football team and KU's basketball team. KU's NOA has provided him what he needed to come back out in the public. Maybe KSuck will give him a job. I did not go listen to the podcast. Don't need another reason to be pissed!