Shoe money trial

[ousdahl]

We've had this argument.
Unfortunately (fortunately) Vega deleted that massive thread.

I don't want the focus of college basketball athletes to be contracts, deals, endorsements. (but isn't it already?) And it doesn't need to be. Fans follow schools not individual players. yeah but fans follow individual players too We don't need the top 50 players every year to still have an entertaining season.though it certainly helps...you think we get past Duke by giving more minuters to Lightfoot? I want more four year kids with degrees than one and dones. Logistically how do you make this money funneling even across the board? why does it have to be even?Will some schools completely loose competitively and have to disband because they can't keep up with larger schools ( no it doesn't already happen to the scale that it would - and with pressure towards a system I've been pushing to, it certainly wouldn't get any worse )? Is Title IX an issue ( of course it will be ) ? Will recruiting now just become contract negotiations? isn't it already? Will agents be hanging out at AFH practice? don't they already?Will school even be a thing at all? Why is this any different than the NBA? If I want to watch the NBA, i'll watch the NBA. There is something to be said about the purity of playing the game because you like it. you really think an elite player loves the game any less just cuz a shoe pusher gave his mom a bag of cash? I want more of those kinda players ( and the argument of 'thats impossible, everyone is about the money!' will fall on deaf ears with me because I simply disagree with that ). There's history and lore and pride and those things are actual things and are more important than cash flow. yet cash flow has been a part of the history all fucking along

*shrug*

[jfish26]

We've had this argument.
Unfortunately (fortunately) Vega deleted that massive thread.

I don't want the focus of college basketball athletes to be contracts, deals, endorsements. And it doesn't need to be. Fans follow schools not individual players. We don't need the top 50 players every year to still have an entertaining season. I want more four year kids with degrees than one and dones. Logistically how do you make this money funneling even across the board? Will some schools completely loose competitively and have to disband because they can't keep up with larger schools ( no it doesn't already happen to the scale that it would - and with pressure towards a system I've been pushing to, it certainly wouldn't get any worse )? Is Title IX an issue ( of course it will be ) ? Will recruiting now just become contract negotiations? Will agents be hanging out at AFH practice? Will school even be a thing at all? Why is this any different than the NBA? If I want to watch the NBA, i'll watch the NBA. There is something to be said about the purity of playing the game because you like it. I want more of those kinda players ( and the argument of 'thats impossible, everyone is about the money!' will fall on deaf ears with me because I simply disagree with that ). There's history and lore and pride and those things are actual things and are more important than cash flow.

Do you enjoy last season less now, knowing that Silvio (or someone around him) got paid?

I can't go back in time and take the joy out of watching those games but now at this moment, yea, for sure.
There's a black eye.
If it's found out that those involved at Kansas were responsible with getting him and his people tens of thousands of dollars, then absolutely, it's not as good a season.

In a very PhD microcosm sense, if I watch a single basketball game, say Svi Myhkailiuk's travel vs ksu, it isn't as enjoyable to me after the fact if we won with some controversy then had we won without it.

I mean this sincerely: if this is true, then you're following the wrong program in the wrong sport. You would be much happier investing your time, money and emotion in, like, girls D-III water polo.

I don't believe a single material accomplishment since at least Larry Brown's time here has come without the help of a player who was somehow getting more than scholarship, room and board.

[pdub]

I don't want the focus of college basketball athletes to be contracts, deals, endorsements. And it doesn't need to be. Fans follow schools not individual players.

Then it shouldn't be about those things for the school and coaches.

Then I'm fine with it.


I disagree fans follow schools and not players. Some fans are like that, maybe even many/most. Some are not. Not every KU fan was a KU student. I'm sure Kansas has some young Canadian fans now purely because of Andrew Wiggins coming here. I know countless Duke fans my age who didn't go to duke, but like them because they always win and have good players.

The NCAA makes a good amount of money off the NCAA tourney.
I'd say the casual fan doesn't know many of the players on any of the teams. They learn them in the process of that month. And then the biggest performers become the stars. And that is one of the things that makes the tournament special - the storylines that develop out of the blue.

[pdub]

Do you enjoy last season less now, knowing that Silvio (or someone around him) got paid?

I can't go back in time and take the joy out of watching those games but now at this moment, yea, for sure.
There's a black eye.
If it's found out that those involved at Kansas were responsible with getting him and his people tens of thousands of dollars, then absolutely, it's not as good a season.

In a very PhD microcosm sense, if I watch a single basketball game, say Svi Myhkailiuk's travel vs ksu, it isn't as enjoyable to me after the fact if we won with some controversy then had we won without it.

I mean this sincerely: if this is true, then you're following the wrong program in the wrong sport. You would be much happier investing your time, money and emotion in, like, girls D-III water polo.

I don't believe a single material accomplishment since at least Larry Brown's time here has come without the help of a player who was somehow getting more than scholarship, room and board.

That's of course an opinion I don't agree with.
I'm a Kansan, born in Lawrence, alum, fan of the Hawks for forever, I'm following the right sport.
It's just gotten worse and worse.

If something you love becomes tainted/turns for the worse, you work to try and fix it, even if it is difficult, rather than taint it even further.

[ousdahl]

whoa, fresh off 14 straight conference totals and a Final Four = worse and worse.

[jfish26]

I can't go back in time and take the joy out of watching those games but now at this moment, yea, for sure.
There's a black eye.
If it's found out that those involved at Kansas were responsible with getting him and his people tens of thousands of dollars, then absolutely, it's not as good a season.

In a very PhD microcosm sense, if I watch a single basketball game, say Svi Myhkailiuk's travel vs ksu, it isn't as enjoyable to me after the fact if we won with some controversy then had we won without it.

I mean this sincerely: if this is true, then you're following the wrong program in the wrong sport. You would be much happier investing your time, money and emotion in, like, girls D-III water polo.

I don't believe a single material accomplishment since at least Larry Brown's time here has come without the help of a player who was somehow getting more than scholarship, room and board.

That's of course an opinion I don't agree with.
I'm a Kansan, born in Lawrence, alum, fan of the Hawks for forever, I'm following the right sport.
It's just gotten worse and worse.

If something you love becomes tainted/turns for the worse, you work to try and fix it, even if it is difficult, rather than taint it even further.

Which opinion don't you believe? That you're following the wrong sport? Or that every single KU accomplishment in my lifetime (and perhaps yours) has been "tainted"?

[ousdahl]

What if the taint isn’t the money itself, but the simple fact the money is all underground?

[jfish26]

What if the taint isn’t the money itself, but the simple fact the money is all underground?

If I understand pwhit's position, the taint is in the presence of the money at all; pwhit can't abide by the underground money being given to players above board (and reported and taxed etc.).

[pdub]

The MattTaint has reared it's head/come to a boiling point.
And while I agree it was a long time coming, I don't agree that it has to be an inevitable side effect.
I don't believe in the leadership - they are to blame for the muck - but I believe in the core of what they are pretending to speak to.

College athletes get full rides/board/trainers/PR/training. If you can find a way to keep this self sustained without going overboard on things like Reese's logos on basketball courts and camo Adidas unis, then that's the way i'd rather go. I don't think that absence of any money is preferred ( i've never argued that ) but the presence of the kind of money that makes college basketball more of a professional league than an amateur one.

[Lonestarjayhawk]

Work with the NBA to eliminate the draft age -- that's very important in my opinion.
It won't eliminate this but it sure will help.

Eliminate it, and/or look to hockey for an example of how a player can be drafted (and his rights retained) but still develop in college.

Hockey or Baseball are good models. Let player get draw from future contracts or signing bonuses. Kids have money. Develop in college. Keeps NCAA basketball coaches’ hands clean.

[pdub]

And just like one side doesn't have obvious/easy solves for their hopes and dreams at KCPhogushering college basketball, I don't have easy solves for Hutchinson CC'ing college basketball.

It's just a preferred route to tackle the issue.

[Deleted User 75]

Why is it okay for baseball?

Why are you only bothered by players getting paid while playing certain sports, but not other sports?

[pdub]

I don't follow baseball.
It's boring.
They use aluminum bats.

[jfish26]

And just like one side doesn't have obvious/easy solves for their hopes and dreams at KCPhogushering college basketball, I don't have easy solves for Hutchinson CC'ing college basketball.

It's just a preferred route to tackle the issue.

One side DOES have obvious and easy solutions, though.

[pdub]

No.

[jfish26]

No.

Well, yes. Yes, something like the Olympic model would be easy to implement and monitor, and would go a very long way toward squeezing out the most rotten parts of the system.

It is fine for you to have a personal distaste for this. But, at some point you will need to realize that distaste truly is personal, and simply doesn't have any logic or reason behind it, when viewed in light of the alternatives.

Which is fine! Being a sports fan is, to a great extent, about being illogical, and loving things that defy reason.

But your position here really is personal to you and, as uncomfortable as it might make you, your position is 0% about what's fair to the student-athletes, or what's best for the health and success of the game.

[pdub]

Of course it is personal to me.
Just as all things in life are.
Take a look at the Poli-Bored.

[pdub]

And of course it has logic and reason behind it.
It just doesn't match with yours.
Money isn't the basis of all logic and reason, for me.
Perhaps it is for you.

[Deleted User 83]

Rock Chalk!

[hartjack8]

Exactly how do you keep the shoe company money out of college basketball??? Let take the case of Marvin Bagley III. He family is broke and files for bankruptcy. Nike hires his dad to coach a team in its league-not AAU but 100% Nike league. Then Marvin goes to a private high school that cost 36K where his dad becomes an assit. coach. Then Marvin goes to Puke a Nike school. Does Puke know Marvin's Dad is getting Nike money. Of course the whole freaking world knows. Is it legit??

Now this is just me but Kentucky got Cal and WW WES and went on a huge recruiting spree. Lately Puke has gotten the best of Kentucky in recruiting. I think Puke talked to lets say Nike black ops and said " Hey we need some ballers". There is only one person with more pull than Cal at Nike and that would be Coach K. Poof ballers arrive at Duke Like #1 #2 and #3. Personally I believe coach Cal amped this thing up to a whole new level. When you let a verified scum bag like Cal into the Blue Blood status you have to make a choice. Let him get all the players and watch Kentucky go 40-0 or get you some " Ballers "

Then there are the Butler's and Wisconsin's who I enjoyed watching. It was like the amateurs against the
pro's