NCAA 19-20

[NDballer13]

Gonzaga comes into every season over ranked. They don't play a particularly difficult non-conference schedule. Other top ten teams do, and they lose a few. Gonzaga plays through their weak conference schedule...usually finishing out in the top 5 or so.

Decent success in the tourney...the cycle repeats next year.

Seriously, do any of us here feel that Texas Tech wouldn't dominate that conference?

Look at the marquee games on their schedule and it tells a more accurate picture. Beat Arizona on the road by 4. Handled UNC with ease, as most teams have this year so that game looked better at the beginning of the year. Needed OT to beat Oregon. And lost to Michigan. That doesn't scream out "dominant team" like everyone wants to make them out to be after a 50 point win against probably the 3rd best team in the WCC.

[Deleted User 289]

Not sure how you define "dominant" and who exactly is claiming they are a "dominant team. They are good. Hard to prove (or disprove) there aren't 5 better teams in the country than they are right now.
As far as who they play out of conference each season, they played and beat the number #1 team in the country last season but hey, that's right, they lost to #7 and number #12.

[TDub]

Oregon, the zags best win, lost to pac 12 perennial bottom dweller wazzu last night.

[TDub]

I think the zags are good, you jusy cant prove it with their schedule this yeat.

[NDballer13]

Not sure how you define "dominant" and who exactly is claiming they are a "dominant team. They are good. Hard to prove (or disprove) there aren't 5 better teams in the country than they are right now.
As far as who they play out of conference each season, they played and beat the number #1 team in the country last season but hey, that's right, they lost to #7 and number #12.

Gonzaga currently has the 38th ranked SOS. Not terrible, but not particularly difficult as jeepin said. A good majority of the current top 25 ranks above them in this category. That's the point being discussed here. How would their past 15-20 year run look if they didn't play half their schedule against the WCC. They haven't lost more than 3 conference games in 20 years. During KU's run of 14 straight, they lost 4 or more games on 5 different occasions.

Nobody here is claiming they are a not a good team. Simply asking the rhetorical question of how would their program be perceived if they were a little more battle tested between January and March. But, as usual, you took that in a literal sense and claiming hypothetical situations can't be proven.

As far as who called them dominant. Dalen Cuff did after the game last night, so that's why I chose that wording. I apologize for using everyone instead of some, or one person.

[Deleted User 289]

Oregon, the zags best win, lost to pac 12 perennial bottom dweller wazzu last night.

And?
We could do they they played and lost to game day long.
Duke, KU's best win (?), lost at home to SFA, who lost to at home to Texas A&M-CC on January 8th.

[TDub]

We lost to Duke.

[Deleted User 289]

We lost to Duke.

TRUE!
So of course that was extremely moronic of me to have said KU beat Duke my previous post.

Let me try that again.

Kansas, who's best win was ___________________, lost to ______________________ who lost to ________________________.

[Deleted User 289]

Not sure how you define "dominant" and who exactly is claiming they are a "dominant team. They are good. Hard to prove (or disprove) there aren't 5 better teams in the country than they are right now.
As far as who they play out of conference each season, they played and beat the number #1 team in the country last season but hey, that's right, they lost to #7 and number #12.

Gonzaga currently has the 38th ranked SOS. Not terrible, but not particularly difficult as jeepin said. A good majority of the current top 25 ranks above them in this category. That's the point being discussed here. How would their past 15-20 year run look if they didn't play half their schedule against the WCC. They haven't lost more than 3 conference games in 20 years. During KU's run of 14 straight, they lost 4 or more games on 5 different occasions.

Nobody here is claiming they are a not a good team. Simply asking the rhetorical question of how would their program be perceived if they were a little more battle tested between January and March. But, as usual, you took that in a literal sense and claiming hypothetical situations can't be proven.

As far as who called them dominant. Dalen Cuff did after the game last night, so that's why I chose that wording. I apologize for using everyone instead of some, or one person.

I didn't hear Cuff say it nor do I know in what context he said it but if it was simply in reference to how they played and looked last night - I would agree with him 100%.
If I were to look at the other 19 games they have played this season, I don't think I would say they have been "dominant" (obviously they were not in the Michigan game) as a whole but overall, is there a more "dominant" team in college basketball today?
Probably but I can't say 100% for sure there is.
They do have the highest scoring margin in the country but as you and others have alluded to - that's not a great indicator because they haven't been playing the best/toughest schedule in the country.

[TDub]

Dayton. Lost to kansas and ranked Colorado.

[Deleted User 295]

SOS is relatively easily manipulated if you've got the ability to control your scheduling. There have been years where we had a top SOS and there were teams around us that I felt played more hard high end games, but their cupcakes (everyone has them) were atrocious and brought their SOS numbers down. We seem to be very good at avoiding SOS killers that drag us down. We still have cupcakes a few times a year, but they're chosen wisely. Or at least that's how it seems to me.

It'd be cool to see if there is a SOS pattern or trend for national champions. At times I wonder how important it truly is, especially for battle tested veteran teams.

[CrimsonNBlue]

SOS is relatively easily manipulated if you've got the ability to control your scheduling.

Is there a school out there that doesn't get to make their own noncon schedule?

[Deleted User 295]

SOS is relatively easily manipulated if you've got the ability to control your scheduling.

Is there a school out there that doesn't get to make their own noncon schedule?

I mean in terms of being able to get the games you want, against the programs you want, at the venues you want. In that sense, I don't think everyone has nearly as much control as places like Kansas Duke UNC UK etc.

[CrimsonNBlue]

I'm curious as to where people feel KU would have finished on average in the ACC, SEC, and Big 10 over the past 20 seasons.

On average: 1.something.

Self's record against Top 5 teams is ungodly and unprecedented. We also have the best home court advantage in the country, both objectively and subjectively. Plus, we pay the refs.

[CrimsonNBlue]

SOS is relatively easily manipulated if you've got the ability to control your scheduling.

Is there a school out there that doesn't get to make their own noncon schedule?

I mean in terms of being able to get the games you want, against the programs you want, at the venues you want. In that sense, I don't think everyone has nearly as much control as places like Kansas Duke UNC UK etc.

That's only true for home games, and really only true for the true midmajors. There are 350 teams and everyone has access to the same data on each team.

And yet, we still (or did) schedule smarter than anyone in the country including the bluebloods for the past 15 years.

By your own admission, you stated that the real way to manipulate SOS is to not schedule really shitty creampuffs. Any team can avoid that, not just the Kansas Duke UNC UK etc.'s of the world.

[NDballer13]

It'd be cool to see if there is a SOS pattern or trend for national champions. At times I wonder how important it truly is, especially for battle tested veteran teams.

Virginia - 3
Villanova - 3
UNC - 1
Villanova - 5
Duke - 1
UCONN - 9
Louisville* - 3
Kentucky - 4
UCONN - 1
Duke - 1

For what it's worth...

[CrimsonNBlue]

I'm curious as to where people feel KU would have finished on average in the ACC, SEC, and Big 10 over the past 20 seasons.

On average: 1.something.

Self's record against Top 5 teams is ungodly and unprecedented. We also have the best home court advantage in the country, both objectively and subjectively. Plus, we pay the refs.

To pile on, here were Bill's finishes in the B1G at Illinois, which was not a powerhouse when he took over: 1st, 1st, 2nd.

Here's what they were at Tulsa: 3rd, 1st, 1st.

He puts (arguably too much) a huge emphasis on the regular season title (and I think it has an effect on his relative performance in the dance).

[CrimsonNBlue]

It'd be cool to see if there is a SOS pattern or trend for national champions. At times I wonder how important it truly is, especially for battle tested veteran teams.

Virginia - 3
Villanova - 3
UNC - 1
Villanova - 5
Duke - 1
UCONN - 9
Louisville* - 3
Kentucky - 4
UCONN - 1
Duke - 1

For what it's worth...

The caveat is that all those teams played 2 Final Four teams to finish their schedule.

They area all also from major conferences, which never hurts.

In sum: it would be a complete aberration (and IMO impossible) for a National Champ to have a low SOS.

[TDub]

Butler was like 83 in 2011 as a runner up. But that is pretty rare.

[CrimsonNBlue]

That is surprising, but so is Butler making it to title game. The Horizon is absolute crap at the bottom. Their SOS had to have been in the mid to high 100's going into NCAA's.

So, not impossible, but quite an aberration. For reference, last year's Horizon representative was Northern Kentucky.