Where's the petri dish thread?

[TDub]

So, the reason that the swine flu (H1N1) and the spanish flu were so virulent, was through a process called antigenic shift. Basically, a human flu (influenza A) recombines with a virus from a different animal (avian flu) in a third animal species (pig). Human flu produces proteins called antigens that our bodies can make antibodies against as a defense. We still get very sick, but our immune system ultimately protects us. When antigenic shift happens, most of the genes that make it virulent in humans remain, but some of the genes that encode antigens are replaced by similar genes from the other virus (avian influenza, for example) that are different enough that our body is less able to recognize, and therefore less able to produce antibodies against, making the virus more virulent.

So, since this virus has sequence homology to SARS (79.5%) as well as bat coronavirus (96%), and it was transmitted through a third animal at a live food market. It seems reasonable to assume that this is another example of antigenic shift. Which obviously could happen naturally, but could also be easily engineered. I haven't seen this mentioned in the media, though, this is not the priority most people care about right now.

If someone wanted a quick and dirty way to make a more virulent virus against humans, you could start mixing different bat coronaviruses with SARS, in different animals and then screen them for virulence. It'd be pretty easy if you had the viruses.

Obviously there are more sophisticated ways to engineer a more virulent virus, but this would be an easy brute force method to do it. But, it also obviously is a mechanism that has operated in nature too.

All interesting stuff. Thanks

[zsn]

So, since this virus has sequence homology to SARS (79.5%) as well as bat coronavirus (96%), and it was transmitted through a third animal at a live food market. It seems reasonable to assume that this is another example of antigenic shift. Which obviously could happen naturally, but could also be easily engineered. I haven't seen this mentioned in the media, though, this is not the priority most people care about right now.

If someone wanted a quick and dirty way to make a more virulent virus against humans, you could start mixing different bat coronaviruses with SARS, in different animals and then screen them for virulence. It'd be pretty easy if you had the viruses.

Obviously there are more sophisticated ways to engineer a more virulent virus, but this would be an easy brute force method to do it. But, it also obviously is a mechanism that has operated in nature too.

Are you saying that there is an el cheapo Bond-villain out there that's doing this? Oooooh, I got one better: the Chinese govt is doing this as a practice run before introducing these into the Kowloon night market to get back at the Hong Kong protesters. That's why they swiped the Wuhan market clean before investigations were complete.

Do people really eat bats/feed to livestock, or did it get to these other species by bats biting them or those other species ingesting infected bat excrement?

[CrimsonNBlue]

Seems more likely human(s) consumed an animal that contracted/consumed a bat.

[Deleted User 89]

this case seems to stem more from “bush meat” than any real commercial endeavor

nobody is raising bats or snakes for food

bush meat is a serious problem through much of africa and asia, and the chinese are notorious for their over exploitation of animals to this end, not to mention traditional medicines and any number of other animal products...and they have no qualms about taking advantage of other countries’ resources, often illegally

[Deleted User 89]

Seems more likely human(s) consumed an animal that contracted/consumed a bat.

this is what i’ve read, that a snake ate an infected bat, and that it was the snake that transmitted the virus to humans

that seems like a stretch to me...not impossible, but a stretch. to go from mammal to reptile, and then back to mammal, while definitely not impossible, would seem to be a very rare occurrence.

[PhDhawk]

I believe Coronavirus is spread through aerosolization and inhalation. Not through consumption.

So, I think the situation that's most probably, is someone selling an animal for food, that animal acuired both SARS, from a human, perhaps the farmer raising the animal, and also aquired a bat coronavirus, from a bat (I guess it sneezed near the livestock). And then those viruses recombined in the livestock and when transmitted to humans was more virulent.

I mean, if I'm right about antigenic shift, and I might not be. Bacteria are what I actually study, though, it's a zoonotic pathogen, just to make zsn happy.

-Having said that, snakes may get viruses through eating, mammals tend not to.

[jhawks99]

Good point.

The Chinese should slaughter a whole generation of babies -- girls especially -- in order to rectify the overcrowding issue and obviously not create a ton of new issues in the process.



Oh wait...

I don't think she said that.

[TDub]

this case seems to stem more from “bush meat” than any real commercial endeavor

nobody is raising bats or snakes for food

bush meat is a serious problem through much of africa and asia, and the chinese are notorious for their over exploitation of animals to this end, not to mention traditional medicines and any number of other animal products...and they have no qualms about taking advantage of other countries’ resources, often illegally

Not to mention the odd (to us) animals and animal parts that used for medicinal or supplemental purposes in asian cultures.

[DCHawk1]

Good point.

The Chinese should slaughter a whole generation of babies -- girls especially -- in order to rectify the overcrowding issue and obviously not create a ton of new issues in the process.



Oh wait...

I don't think she said that.

You are correct. And that was unfair of me to direct that at the good Dr.

Nevertheless, concerns about overpopulation do not mix well with the omnipotent state.

[Deleted User 89]

i know, i know...wrong bored

https://www.nbcnews.com/think/opinion/c ... cna1124171

[DCHawk1]

Yes. Wrong bored.

But also...one fucking plane? Are you serious?

[Shirley]

i know, i know...wrong bored

https://www.nbcnews.com/think/opinion/c ... cna1124171

"wrong bored"?

Why, because posts about public health policy belong on the "Politics" forum? Really? #sad

But, I wonder why? How in the world has something like the response to a potential public health emergency become "politicized"?

Well, as someone who was a student at KU medical school hearing and then learning about this potential and expanding epidemic, and then seeing patients with HIV, (Human Immunodeficiency Virus), before we knew what caused it, how it was transmitted, what the most common symptoms were or how to try to treat it, and before it had an agreed upon name, (the first "name" I heard was "gay bowel syndrome"), we've seen before what happens when public health policy becomes politicized. People suffer and die.

President Ronald Reagan would not so much as say the name, let alone dedicate the public health resources for the research needed to respond effectively to the growing infectious disease epidemic, because he was afraid the mere mention of it might offend his "Moral Majority", Jerry Falwell and other evangelical/religious supporters, i.e., base. Because, apparently, closing your eyes and clinging to a comforting fantasy is more important than dealing with reality, even when you're president and your duty is protect Americans. Unless of course, they're gay.

I could go on at length about how politics caused the Reagan Admin. to ignore HIV despite the growing threat to the public and increasing morbidity and mortality, but I'll spare you.

[Shirley]

Red meat for PhD:

Federal prosecutors have charged Harvard University's chemistry department chair with lying to the Department of Defense about his work for a Chinese talent recruitment program.

The charging documents state that Charles Lieber received $50,000 a month in salary, $158,000 in living expenses and $1.74 million for research at the Wuhan University of Technology...

[defixione]

Per Lawrence Memorial Hospital: patient in Kansas under observation for coronavirus. Did not state where the patient is.

Just found out the patient is in Lawrence.

https://www.kctv5.com/news/local_news/l ... 3.amp.html

[Shirley]

[DrPepper]

If you needed to shelter in place (your residence) for 2 months (arbitrary period), could you do it? A scenario where utilities continue to run (eg electricity, water), but no deliveries (eg mail, amazon, pizza).

2 months of any meds
OTC meds: Tylenol
Toilet paper, toothpaste, tissues
Lysol, trashbags
Food
Boredom breakers
Condoms or similar
Diapers
Supplies for pets (eg food, litter)

It would be remiss to not discuss this why we still can do something. None of these things cost much or would go to waste.

[PhDhawk]

condoms and diapers would go to waste in my house.

[DrPepper]

Swap those out for coffee and protein powder

[PhDhawk]

I don't drink coffee.

[DrPepper]

Swap out coffee for Axe body spray