why the greatest economy ever...

[Shirley]

The farm bailout is now twice what the bank bailout was when the economy collapsed under W. Sounds to me like the biggest neo-socialist knot head right now is Trump.

I don't have a good alternative for farm bailouts. If you let all of the family farms die out, prices for food will go through the roof and people will complain about that. We definitely need to scale back the bailouts, as technology has eliminated the need for as many family farms as we have traditionally had, but as long as we continue to import commodities that can (and should) be grown in the US, we will continue to have these issues.

You do remember that the farm bailouts are necessary not because of prices in the actual farming market but because Trump's absurd tariff battle between the US and China has added completely unnecessary additional costs.

How about our dumbfuck President address the hundreds of billions of dollars in tariffs necessitating these bribe payments to farmers to keep them voting GOP?

twocoach, you beat me to it.

Sadly, Psych's latest demonstration of ideology-inspired ignorance only serves to reinforce the republican effort to appeal to low-information, anti-intellectual voters, because obviously, it works.

Seriously Psych, why do you think the "farm bailouts" are even necessary? Trump set the barn on fire and wants us to give him credit if he somehow manages to persuade the Chinese to put it out? I think we all have too much self-respect to fall for that.

[Deleted User 295]

But didn't his tariff battle sort of work out? Isn't China finally agreeing to make some concessions to make things more fair than they were previously?

[HouseDivided]

Farm subsidies have been around long before any tariff wars with China. People were complaining about them when I was in grade school in the 80's. It is a marginally-effective response to changes in technology that has encouraged some people to stay in farming when it would have been better to get out. It also protects us from a cornered market that would allow for skyrocketing bread, milk, egg, and meat prices. China is caving to pressure, and things will get better. I would love to see Congress introduce some bills to phase out the majority of subsidies, but no member of Congress from an agricultural state would dare vote for, much less introduce, that kind of legislation.

[twocoach]

But didn't his tariff battle sort of work out? Isn't China finally agreeing to make some concessions to make things more fair than they were previously?

If it was "working out", the government wouldnt have to give US farmers billions to avoid an election revolt next November.

[twocoach]

Farm subsidies have been around long before any tariff wars with China. People were complaining about them when I was in grade school in the 80's. It is a marginally-effective response to changes in technology that has encouraged some people to stay in farming when it would have been better to get out. It also protects us from a cornered market that would allow for skyrocketing bread, milk, egg, and meat prices. China is caving to pressure, and things will get better. I would love to see Congress introduce some bills to phase out the majority of subsidies, but no member of Congress from an agricultural state would dare vote for, much less introduce, that kind of legislation.

Dont treat these payoffs as the same function as CRP. You fully know what these are. Be honest.

[HouseDivided]

Farm subsidies have been around long before any tariff wars with China. People were complaining about them when I was in grade school in the 80's. It is a marginally-effective response to changes in technology that has encouraged some people to stay in farming when it would have been better to get out. It also protects us from a cornered market that would allow for skyrocketing bread, milk, egg, and meat prices. China is caving to pressure, and things will get better. I would love to see Congress introduce some bills to phase out the majority of subsidies, but no member of Congress from an agricultural state would dare vote for, much less introduce, that kind of legislation.

Dont treat these payoffs as the same function as CRP. You fully know what these are. Be honest.

I know that is the reality you want it to be because it suits your preferred narrative. I don't see it that way. If we take it to the lengths you are, all subsidy programs are essentially bribes for votes, and that would include Affirmative Action and Title IX. I doubt you consider those things bribes.

[twocoach]

Farm subsidies have been around long before any tariff wars with China. People were complaining about them when I was in grade school in the 80's. It is a marginally-effective response to changes in technology that has encouraged some people to stay in farming when it would have been better to get out. It also protects us from a cornered market that would allow for skyrocketing bread, milk, egg, and meat prices. China is caving to pressure, and things will get better. I would love to see Congress introduce some bills to phase out the majority of subsidies, but no member of Congress from an agricultural state would dare vote for, much less introduce, that kind of legislation.

Dont treat these payoffs as the same function as CRP. You fully know what these are. Be honest.

I know that is the reality you want it to be because it suits your preferred narrative. I don't see it that way. If we take it to the lengths you are, all subsidy programs are essentially bribes for votes, and that would include Affirmative Action and Title IX. I doubt you consider those things bribes.

How absurd of you. That's just gross. Such a shameless liar.

[Deleted User 295]

But didn't his tariff battle sort of work out? Isn't China finally agreeing to make some concessions to make things more fair than they were previously?

If it was "working out", the government wouldnt have to give US farmers billions to avoid an election revolt next November.

Is China making concessions in an effort to make things more fair? If so, then I'd say the trade war sort of worked out.

[Shirley]

But didn't his tariff battle sort of work out? Isn't China finally agreeing to make some concessions to make things more fair than they were previously?

If it was "working out", the government wouldnt have to give US farmers billions to avoid an election revolt next November.

Is China making concessions in an effort to make things more fair? If so, then I'd say the trade war sort of worked out.

It depends on what you consider "concessions". What Trump has done is to try calm the waters before the 2020 election. But as far as any permanent changes by China, the very reasons why Trump allegedly imposed the tariffs and started the trade war in the beginning? No. Xi knows that Trump needs things to go smoothly between now and Nov., so what incentive does he have to make real "concessions"?

The ‘giant hole’ in Trump’s new China deal

The China trade deal President Donald Trump is hailing as a major win fails to address some of Beijing’s most egregious practices — the issues that sparked the trade war in the first place.

Trump and Chinese Vice Premier Liu He signed the agreement during a White House ceremony Wednesday after nearly two years of escalating trade tensions that saw both sides ratchet up tariffs on hundreds of billions' worth of each other’s goods.

The so-called phase one agreement centers on increased Chinese purchases of American agricultural, energy and other products, while adding new restrictions in areas like technology transfers and currency devaluation.

Though the handshake will help stabilize the relationship between the world’s two largest economies and provide relief to farmers and manufacturers bearing the brunt of Trump’s tariffs, critics warn it falls woefully short in a crucial way: The 86-page text does not cover long-standing U.S. concerns about China’s industrial policy, including how to rein in the billions of dollars in government subsidies Beijing bestows upon its state-owned enterprises.

“That’s a giant hole in the phase one deal, and there’s no way to get around it,” said Chad Bown, a senior fellow at the Peterson Institute for International Economics.

Trump administration officials have been clear since details of the agreement began emerging last month that some tricky issues are left out. “Is it going to solve all the problems? No,” U.S. Trade Representative Robert Lighthizer said during an interview on CBS in December.

They maintain that notching some progress is better than nothing, and the plan is to begin a second phase of negotiations that covers outstanding concerns. But beyond Trump saying he plans to travel to Beijing "in the not too distant future" to launch those discussions, there is no firm date for talks, nor is there a clear-cut path forward.

I will be signing our very large and comprehensive Phase One Trade Deal with China on January 15. The ceremony will take place at the White House. High level representatives of China will be present. At a later date I will be going to Beijing where talks will begin on Phase Two!

Trump himself has begun to lower expectations, saying he’s in no rush, and his top allies are warning the next phase might not conclude until after November’s presidential election. The result is increasing frustration among some American businesses and technology companies who feel Trump is trading away hard-earned leverage in exchange for an agreement that does little to resolve the systemic issues that led the White House to begin imposing tariffs against China two years ago.

“We’re no closer today to resolving any of those fundamental frictions than we were before the trade war started,” Bown said.

Still, Trump himself was quick to tout the benefits of an agreement he hailed as a "really incredible breakthrough" at Wednesday’s signing ceremony, which dozens of Republican lawmakers and business and industry representatives attended.

“Today we take a momentous step — one that has never been taken before with China — toward a future of fair and reciprocal trade," Trump said in the White House East Room.

Yet, billions in tariffs will remain in place, hurting the economy. The added duties imposed over the past two years — which were meant to bolster domestic manufacturing and punish China — were “approximately 100 percent” borne by American consumers and importers, a paper by three economists recently found.

[...]

[twocoach]

But didn't his tariff battle sort of work out? Isn't China finally agreeing to make some concessions to make things more fair than they were previously?

If it was "working out", the government wouldnt have to give US farmers billions to avoid an election revolt next November.

Is China making concessions in an effort to make things more fair? If so, then I'd say the trade war sort of worked out.

What concessions? What is more "fair"? "Fair" to whom?

[Deleted User 295]

If it was "working out", the government wouldnt have to give US farmers billions to avoid an election revolt next November.

Is China making concessions in an effort to make things more fair? If so, then I'd say the trade war sort of worked out.

It depends on what you consider "concessions". What Trump has done is to try calm the waters before the 2020 election. But as far as any permanent changes by China, the very reasons why Trump allegedly imposed the tariffs and started the trade war in the beginning? No. Xi knows that Trump needs things to go smoothly between now and Nov., so what incentive does he have to make real "concessions"?

The ‘giant hole’ in Trump’s new China deal

The China trade deal President Donald Trump is hailing as a major win fails to address some of Beijing’s most egregious practices — the issues that sparked the trade war in the first place.

Trump and Chinese Vice Premier Liu He signed the agreement during a White House ceremony Wednesday after nearly two years of escalating trade tensions that saw both sides ratchet up tariffs on hundreds of billions' worth of each other’s goods.

The so-called phase one agreement centers on increased Chinese purchases of American agricultural, energy and other products, while adding new restrictions in areas like technology transfers and currency devaluation.

Though the handshake will help stabilize the relationship between the world’s two largest economies and provide relief to farmers and manufacturers bearing the brunt of Trump’s tariffs, critics warn it falls woefully short in a crucial way: The 86-page text does not cover long-standing U.S. concerns about China’s industrial policy, including how to rein in the billions of dollars in government subsidies Beijing bestows upon its state-owned enterprises.

“That’s a giant hole in the phase one deal, and there’s no way to get around it,” said Chad Bown, a senior fellow at the Peterson Institute for International Economics.

Trump administration officials have been clear since details of the agreement began emerging last month that some tricky issues are left out. “Is it going to solve all the problems? No,” U.S. Trade Representative Robert Lighthizer said during an interview on CBS in December.

They maintain that notching some progress is better than nothing, and the plan is to begin a second phase of negotiations that covers outstanding concerns. But beyond Trump saying he plans to travel to Beijing "in the not too distant future" to launch those discussions, there is no firm date for talks, nor is there a clear-cut path forward.

I will be signing our very large and comprehensive Phase One Trade Deal with China on January 15. The ceremony will take place at the White House. High level representatives of China will be present. At a later date I will be going to Beijing where talks will begin on Phase Two!

Trump himself has begun to lower expectations, saying he’s in no rush, and his top allies are warning the next phase might not conclude until after November’s presidential election. The result is increasing frustration among some American businesses and technology companies who feel Trump is trading away hard-earned leverage in exchange for an agreement that does little to resolve the systemic issues that led the White House to begin imposing tariffs against China two years ago.

“We’re no closer today to resolving any of those fundamental frictions than we were before the trade war started,” Bown said.

Still, Trump himself was quick to tout the benefits of an agreement he hailed as a "really incredible breakthrough" at Wednesday’s signing ceremony, which dozens of Republican lawmakers and business and industry representatives attended.

“Today we take a momentous step — one that has never been taken before with China — toward a future of fair and reciprocal trade," Trump said in the White House East Room.

Yet, billions in tariffs will remain in place, hurting the economy. The added duties imposed over the past two years — which were meant to bolster domestic manufacturing and punish China — were “approximately 100 percent” borne by American consumers and importers, a paper by three economists recently found.

[...]

Thanks for the genuine and respectful response. I will check the article out when I'm not driving.

[Shirley]

No problem, Don't drive and read, please.

[Deleted User 295]

If it was "working out", the government wouldnt have to give US farmers billions to avoid an election revolt next November.

Is China making concessions in an effort to make things more fair? If so, then I'd say the trade war sort of worked out.

What concessions? What is more "fair"? "Fair" to whom?

If you don't think China has been taking advantage of us (and others) then I can't take you seriously on this topic. You're just outraged because you know your side is supposed to be outraged about it.

Sounds like we both will benefit from reading the article posted by Feral.

[zsn]

But didn't his tariff battle sort of work out? Isn't China finally agreeing to make some concessions to make things more fair than they were previously?

If it was "working out", the government wouldnt have to give US farmers billions to avoid an election revolt next November.

Is China making concessions in an effort to make things more fair? If so, then I'd say the trade war sort of worked out.

As with everything Trump he takes whatever outcome happened, tells his base that that's what he wanted in the first place, and the sheep just follow. If you don't believe me look up "Mexico paying for The Wall", "Obamacare Repeal", ">3% GDP growth rate every year" "North Korea Nuclear Deal" and "Reducing National Debt".

That you are even contemplating that the trade was was "worth it"/"worked out" is an example. The Chinese know exactly how to play Trump - the same way the North Koreans played him. I guess if you are "The Base" then, yes, everything worked out. If not, then we'll realize that we did the trade war and really ended up with nothing in the end. The virus outbreak probably does more to China trade policy than Trump can ever dream of!

[twocoach]

Is China making concessions in an effort to make things more fair? If so, then I'd say the trade war sort of worked out.

What concessions? What is more "fair"? "Fair" to whom?

If you don't think China has been taking advantage of us (and others) then I can't take you seriously on this topic. You're just outraged because you know your side is supposed to be outraged about it.

Sounds like we both will benefit from reading the article posted by Feral.

No clue where you pulled that stupid assumption of what I think from. If you think that this latest "deal" is anything other than just China continuing to take advantage of us, then I dont know what to tell you.

China will always have the upper hand in things like this because compared even to the disgusting moral abyss of this current administration, China will always sink to lower depths of moral repugnance.

They will always steal technologies, inventions, pharmaceutical research and development as a means to strengthen their nation. They seem to see NOT doing this as much as possible as a national weakness. Russia and North Korea seem to see the same things as inherent weaknesses of the US society.

Trump ignoring this while getting them to "agree" to buy a little more pork is a fucking joke and his bailouts are flat out legal vote purchases to keep farmers from getting too mad at him.

Trump wants bragging points, not actual improvements. He's all style, no substance and has been his whole life.

[twocoach]

If it was "working out", the government wouldnt have to give US farmers billions to avoid an election revolt next November.

Is China making concessions in an effort to make things more fair? If so, then I'd say the trade war sort of worked out.

As with everything Trump he takes whatever outcome happened, tells his base that that's what he wanted in the first place, and the sheep just follow. If you don't believe me look up "Mexico paying for The Wall", "Obamacare Repeal", ">3% GDP growth rate every year" "North Korea Nuclear Deal" and "Reducing National Debt".

That you are even contemplating that the trade was was "worth it"/"worked out" is an example. The Chinese know exactly how to play Trump - the same way the North Koreans played him. I guess if you are "The Base" then, yes, everything worked out. If not, then we'll realize that we did the trade war and really ended up with nothing in the end. The virus outbreak probably does more to China trade policy than Trump can ever dream of!

The base doesnt seem to even give a shit enough to find out if Trump is lying. Since he said it wasn't that seems to have been enough to free them of the desire to fact check him.

Illy likely saw a meme on Instagram that led him to believe that China has made some sort of grand concession and that was enough for him.

[Deleted User 295]

Illy likely saw a meme on Instagram that led him to believe that China has made some sort of grand concession and that was enough for him.

No clue where you pulled that stupid assumption of what I think from.

You're the best.

[Deleted User 295]

The base doesnt seem to even give a shit enough to find out if Trump is lying. Since he said it wasn't that seems to have been enough to free them of the desire to fact check him.

Illy likely saw a meme on Instagram that led him to believe that China has made some sort of grand concession and that was enough for him.

In case you actually care to learn about the issues you're outraged about....

These comments are from Ferals link (I assume you trust her sources)...

The so-called phase one agreement centers on increased Chinese purchases of American agricultural, energy and other products, while adding new restrictions in areas like technology transfers and currency devaluation.



Did I say it was perfect? No.

Does this mean it helped things, even if only partially? Seems like a yes.

[HouseDivided]

Dont treat these payoffs as the same function as CRP. You fully know what these are. Be honest.

I know that is the reality you want it to be because it suits your preferred narrative. I don't see it that way. If we take it to the lengths you are, all subsidy programs are essentially bribes for votes, and that would include Affirmative Action and Title IX. I doubt you consider those things bribes.

How absurd of you. That's just gross. Such a shameless liar.

Not sure what I did to elicit such a harsh response, but you do you. My point remains that politics is essentially "buying" votes by doing things that benefit voters.

[MICHHAWK]

The economy is pretty darn good as economies go.