This week in feminism...

[PhDhawk]

I agree with your point that if you can choose a therapist based on their ability to be logical, that is the way to go. You should always choose based on merit if possible. However, I think it's fair to say that if you picked a therapist at random, chances are higher that you would get a more logical person if you chose a male.

the research suggests that there is as much variation within a sex as there are between sexes.
and that's if you believe the research, which I'm not sure I do.

So...if you set a threshold, You'd have to since being logical isn't a binary thing. So you set a threshold for what you consider logical. Choosing based on sex would give you a very small increase in likelihood. So, instead of a coin flip you might have a 50.5% chance. Not something you should feel too confident about.

But you're painting with broad strokes about the two genders, when the research I've seen suggests you shouldn't do.

[TDub]

Way to logical PhD. Please leave logic out of this.

[Deleted User 104]

Research can be used to show whatever it wants. For this topic, I rely on experience in the real world. Women tend to be less logical than men -- that's it. It's not some big new secret I've revealed. Everyone knows this already, even women. If they didn't know this, why would they ask for a male therapist?

[PhDhawk]

Some of the most logical thinking people I know are women.

[Deleted User 104]

Some of the most logical thinking people I know are women.

And Tdub has a doctor sister. There are exceptions -- where did I say that all women are like this? Stating women "tend" to be less logical doesn't mean all women are. I even said "I know some women who are more logical than the men on this board", did I not?

[PhDhawk]

Research can be used to show whatever it wants.

No, it can't. But I know what you're trying to say.

For this topic, I rely on experience in the real world. Women tend to be less logical than men -- that's it. It's not some big new secret I've revealed. Everyone knows this already, even women. If they didn't know this, why would they ask for a male therapist?

I can think of lots of reasons that have nothing to do with logic.

There are differences between the sexes. I'm not convinced thinking logically is necessarily one of those differences.

Back to the original topic. What I would say I am confident is true for both sexes, is that they should be allowed to choose their own path in life, like DrP mentioned. That we shouldn't shame people for their life choices (as it relates to balancing things like family and career). That no one can be perfect at all things. That everyone has to deal with trade-offs. And that looking back, it's common to have wished you'd done certain things differently.

[PhDhawk]

Some of the most logical thinking people I know are women.

And Tdub has a doctor sister. There are exceptions -- where did I say that all women are like this? Stating women "tend" to be less logical doesn't mean all women are. I even said "I know some women who are more logical than the men on this board", did I not?

If you know that a predictive method is flawed and not going to be very accurate, why talk about the benefits of it?

It's more likely to rain in Portland than it is in Seattle, but that doesn't mean if you walk around in Seattle without an umbrella you won't get wet, or that on a given day Portland will be dry. It doesn't mean Seattle is a dry city. It doesn't mean people will flock to Portland because they like the rain. If we were comparing Portland to the sahara, our predictions might be more meaningful. But for most things men and women are going to be more portland/seattle than portland/desert.

Men are born at a slightly higher rate than women. It seems one to one, but for births, there are slightly more males than females. Knowing that fact wouldn't help me any to predict the outcome of someone's pregnancy, or ten pregnancies, or twenty pregnancies, not in any meaningful way.

[Deleted User 104]

Real research will be aim to be objective, but there's a lot of biased and phony research out in this world. Are you seriously arguing that I'm wrong on this?

You can believe that women are the same as men in terms of aiming to be objective, I don't really care. But the reality is, I've personally known a lot of women seek out men for the hard answers on things where clarity is needed rather than feelings.

[chiknbut]

"Real research will be aim to be objective, but there's a lot of biased and phony research out in this world. Are you seriously arguing that I'm wrong on this?"

Says the guy who continually links youtube videos and considers it "research."

[PhDhawk]

Real research will be aim to be objective, but there's a lot of biased and phony research out in this world. Are you seriously arguing that I'm wrong on this?

You can believe that women are the same as men in terms of aiming to be objective, I don't really care. But the reality is, I've personally known a lot of women seek out men for the hard answers on things where clarity is needed rather than feelings.

I think you probably have your own biases (strong confirmation bias for one) and I doubt you have any methods of accounting for or correcting them.

But I'd be happy to look at your statistics for you if you'd like.

[Deleted User 104]

We both have our biases. I'm not arguing that I don't. And we're both using our anecdotal evidence to lead us to our theories or conclusions. I just believe I'm being a lot more honest about the reality of the situation. Women tend to like men who can make decisions and be decisive. Women tend to not want men who worry about every little decision. It's not a criticism against women, it's just the way nature made us. Men are not superior to women -- we just tend to have different biological skills.

[seahawk]

Speaking of confirmation bias.

[PhDhawk]

We both have our biases. I'm not arguing that I don't. And we're both using our anecdotal evidence to lead us to our theories or conclusions. I just believe I'm being a lot more honest about the reality of the situation. Women tend to like men who can make decisions and be decisive. Women tend to not want men who worry about every little decision. It's not a criticism against women, it's just the way nature made us. Men are not superior to women -- we just tend to have different biological skills.

We're not even talking about the same thing anyway. You seem hung up on why a woman would choose a male therapist. I don't really give a shit.

I'm more curious about your posting of the original video.

If your point is that women should not be pressured out of having children and raising a family if that's what they want to do, or pressured into having a career if that's not what they want to do, then I agree with you.

If you posted it because you think you know what's best for women, and that is that they should stay home make babies and raise them, even if they would prefer a career. Then I couldn't disagree with you more. Pressuring a woman out of a career path and into raising a family is just as bad as the opposite pressure.

[Deleted User 104]

I already stated some of the reasons why I posted the video in another previous post where I said I wanted people to be happy in life. I never said I know what's best for all women. I just want people to be aware of the sacrifice and trade-offs in life. Expecting a woman to "do it all" is unrealistic most of the time. I don't want to keep hearing stories from women who are 39 and regret not having kids and family. That makes me sad for them and angry at what society tells these women when they are young.

[PhDhawk]

I already stated some of the reasons why I posted the video in another previous post where I said I wanted people to be happy in life. I never said I know what's best for all women. I just want people to be aware of the sacrifice and trade-offs in life. Expecting a woman to "do it all" is unrealistic most of the time. I don't want to keep hearing stories from women who are 39 and regret not having kids and family. That makes me sad for them and angry at what society tells these women when they are young.

So you could pretty much say all the same things and apply it to men.

So why make the distinction?

Why post it in a thread about feminism if it's just good advice for everyone?

[seahawk]

What women want is someone who will listen, just as Phd listened to what Dr P posted.

And someone whose eyes sparkle when he listens to her.

What no woman needs is for a man to advise her on what she wants or should want.

[Deleted User 104]

I already stated some of the reasons why I posted the video in another previous post where I said I wanted people to be happy in life. I never said I know what's best for all women. I just want people to be aware of the sacrifice and trade-offs in life. Expecting a woman to "do it all" is unrealistic most of the time. I don't want to keep hearing stories from women who are 39 and regret not having kids and family. That makes me sad for them and angry at what society tells these women when they are young.

So you could pretty much say all the same things and apply it to men.

So why make the distinction?

Why post it in a thread about feminism if it's just good advice for everyone?

Because, men do not have babies and have a biological clock. Men can impregnate a woman well into their 70's if they wanted, but women have about it until age 40 to have children (on average). Women must plan for having a family if they want one a lot more carefully than men because the window is much shorter. This horrible advice that women should "go have a career and put off children until age 38" is ruining women's dreams.

[Deleted User 295]

What no woman needs is for a man to advise her on what she wants or should want.

Agreed.

Or another woman who tries to advise her on what she should want or need.

[PhDhawk]

I already stated some of the reasons why I posted the video in another previous post where I said I wanted people to be happy in life. I never said I know what's best for all women. I just want people to be aware of the sacrifice and trade-offs in life. Expecting a woman to "do it all" is unrealistic most of the time. I don't want to keep hearing stories from women who are 39 and regret not having kids and family. That makes me sad for them and angry at what society tells these women when they are young.

So you could pretty much say all the same things and apply it to men.

So why make the distinction?

Why post it in a thread about feminism if it's just good advice for everyone?

Because, men do not have babies and have a biological clock. Men can impregnate a woman well into their 70's if they wanted, but women have about it until age 40 to have children (on average). Women must plan for having a family if they want one a lot more carefully than men because the window is much shorter. This horrible advice that women should "go have a career and put off children until age 38" is ruining women's dreams.

What about women who don't want kids? What about men who want to be fathers, not just sperm donors? What about situations with stay at home dads where the mother earns the primary income?

[Deleted User 104]

So you could pretty much say all the same things and apply it to men.

So why make the distinction?

Why post it in a thread about feminism if it's just good advice for everyone?

Because, men do not have babies and have a biological clock. Men can impregnate a woman well into their 70's if they wanted, but women have about it until age 40 to have children (on average). Women must plan for having a family if they want one a lot more carefully than men because the window is much shorter. This horrible advice that women should "go have a career and put off children until age 38" is ruining women's dreams.

What about women who don't want kids? What about men who want to be fathers, not just sperm donors? What about situations with stay at home dads where the mother earns the primary income?

I refuse to answer any more questions until you tell if if I'm right or wrong about the statement I previously made. This will help me determine if you're sincere in this discussion.