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Re: Green New Deal
Posted: Sun Feb 10, 2019 4:14 pm
by Leawood
You obviously don’t.
Re: Green New Deal
Posted: Sun Feb 10, 2019 4:36 pm
by Geezer
Do you?
Leawood beat me to it.
Re: Green New Deal
Posted: Sun Feb 10, 2019 5:45 pm
by Deleted User 75
So which of you think it's acceptable for people unwilling to work to just be given money by the government?
Re: Green New Deal
Posted: Sun Feb 10, 2019 5:48 pm
by DCHawk1
If we're going to get picky, the GND and its associated benefits are egoism -- which is to say the "ism" Marx himself feared most. It's Max Stirner's vision of the post-Enlightenment world.
Re: Green New Deal
Posted: Sun Feb 10, 2019 7:52 pm
by twocoach
IllinoisJayhawk wrote: ↑Sun Feb 10, 2019 5:45 pm
So which of you think it's acceptable for people unwilling to work to just be given money by the government?
You do understand that the Green New Deal is a non-binding agreement? Which means its basically just an outline of ideas and wishes? It's about as meaningful as the nuclear deal Trump signed with North Korea. Who gives a shit whats in it. It doesnt MEAN anything.
Re: Green New Deal
Posted: Sun Feb 10, 2019 7:54 pm
by twocoach
DCHawk1 wrote: ↑Sun Feb 10, 2019 5:48 pm
If we're going to get picky, the GND and its associated benefits are egoism -- which is to say the "ism" Marx himself feared most. It's Max Stirner's vision of the post-Enlightenment world.
I doubt that more than 2 other people on this site have any clue what you are talking about without googling it. And I am obviously not one of them.
Re: Green New Deal
Posted: Sun Feb 10, 2019 7:58 pm
by Mjl
twocoach wrote: ↑Sun Feb 10, 2019 7:54 pm
DCHawk1 wrote: ↑Sun Feb 10, 2019 5:48 pm
If we're going to get picky, the GND and its associated benefits are egoism -- which is to say the "ism" Marx himself feared most. It's Max Stirner's vision of the post-Enlightenment world.
I doubt that more than 2 other people on this site have any clue what you are talking about without googling it. And I am obviously not one of them.
That's a feature, not a bug
Re: Green New Deal
Posted: Sun Feb 10, 2019 8:08 pm
by Geezer
It makes him feel smarter, humor him.
Re: Green New Deal
Posted: Sun Feb 10, 2019 8:43 pm
by DCHawk1
Geezer wrote: ↑Sun Feb 10, 2019 8:08 pm
It makes him feel smarter, humor him.
Only at your expense.
Get it?
Re: Green New Deal
Posted: Sun Feb 10, 2019 8:53 pm
by Geezer
No, I'm old and stupid.
Re: Green New Deal
Posted: Sun Feb 10, 2019 8:54 pm
by DCHawk1
twocoach wrote: ↑Sun Feb 10, 2019 7:54 pm
DCHawk1 wrote: ↑Sun Feb 10, 2019 5:48 pm
If we're going to get picky, the GND and its associated benefits are egoism -- which is to say the "ism" Marx himself feared most. It's Max Stirner's vision of the post-Enlightenment world.
I doubt that more than 2 other people on this site have any clue what you are talking about without googling it. And I am obviously not one of them.
MjI is right. It's a feature, not a bug. If we're going to get picky and argue that Illy's a dumdum for not understanding that GND is not Communism, then it might be helpful to explain what it actually is. But no one wants to do that because it's complicated and arcane and kinda difficult. It's much easier to call Illy a dumdum and move on.
Personally, I think Geezer's as big a dumdum for not knowing what it really is, even while mocking Illy.
I think it's fair to call it "left-wing statism." And likewise, "communism" is, more or less, a synonym for that.
Re: Green New Deal
Posted: Sun Feb 10, 2019 8:55 pm
by DCHawk1
DCHawk1 wrote: ↑Sun Feb 10, 2019 8:54 pm
twocoach wrote: ↑Sun Feb 10, 2019 7:54 pm
DCHawk1 wrote: ↑Sun Feb 10, 2019 5:48 pm
If we're going to get picky, the GND and its associated benefits are egoism -- which is to say the "ism" Marx himself feared most. It's Max Stirner's vision of the post-Enlightenment world.
I doubt that more than 2 other people on this site have any clue what you are talking about without googling it. And I am obviously not one of them.
MjI is right. It's a feature, not a bug. If we're going to get picky and argue that Illy's a dumdum for not understanding that GND is not Communism, then it might be helpful to explain what it actually is. But no one wants to do that because it's complicated and arcane and kinda difficult. It's much easier to call Illy a dumdum and move on.
Personally, I think Geezer's as big a dumdum for not knowing what it really is, even while mocking Illy.
I think it's fair to call it "left-wing statism." And likewise, "communism" is, more or less, a vernacular synonym for that.
Re: Green New Deal
Posted: Sun Feb 10, 2019 8:59 pm
by Geezer
Oh please, that's even more than your normal level of horseshit.
Re: Green New Deal
Posted: Sun Feb 10, 2019 10:16 pm
by DCHawk1
dUMDuM
Re: Green New Deal
Posted: Mon Feb 11, 2019 6:48 am
by twocoach
IllinoisJayhawk wrote: ↑Sun Feb 10, 2019 4:11 pm
Do you know what communism is?
(Your rant about the environment has nothing to do with anything I quoted or "laughed at".
So did we magically turn into a Communist country after the first and second New Deal in the 1930s?
Re: Green New Deal
Posted: Mon Feb 11, 2019 7:02 am
by Deleted User 75
You tell me how the government can provide a guaranteed job to every citizen without having government take control of a large % of private business? I'll wait.
You tell me how the government can provide a livable level of income for those "UNWILLING" to work without taking control of a large % of private business? I'll wait.
Where does this money all come from? I'll wait.
Re: Green New Deal
Posted: Mon Feb 11, 2019 8:01 am
by Deleted User 89
why are you stuck on those points alone?
as has been said, there are good and reasonable parts of it, and there are some parts that have no chance in hell
it isn't an all or nothing game
Re: Green New Deal
Posted: Mon Feb 11, 2019 8:16 am
by TDub
Perhaps but most people are going to shut down at the complete inaneness of the parts that have no chance in hell. Wouldnt it be more productive to outline a more realistic plan? That is, of course, assuming we really want change and this isnt just a platform to use to fire up the extreme base?
Re: Green New Deal
Posted: Mon Feb 11, 2019 8:30 am
by Deleted User 75
It's like trump talking about a wall spanning the entire southern border. That was never going to happen and doesn't make any sense.....but now everyone just shuts the entire discussion down completely ignoring that barriers in many areas make sense (and already exist).
That's politics in 2019.
So when AOC puts all that insane garbage in the GND that's what I'm going to criticize. She chose to put it in there, so that's on her.
I'm all for saving the environment regardless of economic impact to large extent. So there are ideas in the GND that I could get behind for sure, granted she's batshit crazy and does the EXACT same tactics Trump does by trying to ignite fear saying things like "the world will end in 12 years" LOL.
Re: Green New Deal
Posted: Mon Feb 11, 2019 8:34 am
by TDub
Yea everyone thinks they have to be revolutionary and extreme in order to generate discussion in the tweeting society we have. So they focus on extremes to get people fired up as opposed to working towards realistic things that we can actually accomplish to start the process of change. Its disappointing.