Kansas Crimson

I don't think LeBron was psuedo-GMing at that point in his career more than any other star player.
That's why I think he left Cleveland - he was unhappy with the decisions made to get him support.

jfish26 wrote: ↑Tue Jun 18, 2019 11:40 am

pdub wrote: ↑Tue Jun 18, 2019 11:36 am Post-Cavs being his going to the Lakers?
Or his going to Miami?

Sorry, the Lakers part.

I agree with you.
But then again, I'm not sure his staying in Cleveland would have been better than bouncing for LA.
If he really wanted to win he shoulda just signed with Golden State for the vets minimum.

6 titles, I like Mike.

Bill Russell laughs at you.
So does Robert Horry.

pdub wrote: ↑Tue Jun 18, 2019 11:43 am

jfish26 wrote: ↑Tue Jun 18, 2019 11:40 am

pdub wrote: ↑Tue Jun 18, 2019 11:36 am Post-Cavs being his going to the Lakers?
Or his going to Miami?

Sorry, the Lakers part.

I agree with you.
But then again, I'm not sure his staying in Cleveland would have been better than bouncing for LA.
If he really wanted to win he shoulda just signed with Golden State for the vets minimum.

Sure. But there was a way to do the Lakers thing, better.

For sure.
I don't think he ( if we are assuming he's psuedo-GM ) could have immediately won ( just this last season ) but this last move for A.D. I think will leave the Lakers strapped of other talent.
At the very least, psuedo-GM should have made it mandatory that the trade not go through for 3 weeks so the Lakers could have the cash to sign a bigger star/bigger player.

jfish26 wrote: ↑Tue Jun 18, 2019 11:08 am Agreed! But if Bron wants a bulletproof GOAT argument, he's got to at least tie MJ. He's not going to, in my opinion largely because of his own failings as a pseudo-GM.

There is no such thing as a bulletproof GOAT argument, no matter how solid it is. Wilt owns just about every meaningful record that exists in the sport and the dopes are whining about how there weren't enough tall guys in the NBA at the time so they're all irrelevant.

I mean hey, let's ignore the fact that in his 1962 season where he averaged 50 points and 25 boards a game that the NBA only had 8 other teams so he had to play 12 regular season games against Bill Russell's Celtics squad whose top 7 scorers were all Hall of Famers. He was too tall, it doesn't count!

As soon as James lost his first NBA Finals, he lost the ability to have a bulletproof GOAT argument.

twocoach wrote: ↑Tue Jun 18, 2019 10:53 am Oh no. The horror.

It's amusing that some KU fans can think of a million reasons and stats to rank KU over Kentucky, Duke and Carolina despite less titles, claiming "there's more to a season that the tourney results" but continue to hold NBA titles up as the measuring stick of an NBA players greatness.

Which is it?

Kentucky has been a more successful program than Kansas, no question. Kentucky is probably the most successful program of all time, even though UCLA has more.

MJ is also the GOAT, even though Russell has more titles.

The game is so nuanced that it's hard to call one guy the greatest player. To me, Jordan is the best modern day scorer and competitor while James is the better overall player. It's a totally different NBA now than it was in MJ's days. Heck, the whole NBA changed in the middle of MJ's career with the early departure of Bird and Magic along with massive expansion.

MJ wins the "right guy at the right time" award for sure, though. He was the perfect athlete for the sport at the time. No athlete since Ali has benefitted more by the changing media and culture of his times.

pdub wrote: ↑Tue Jun 18, 2019 11:41 am I don't think LeBron was psuedo-GMing at that point in his career more than any other star player.
That's why I think he left Cleveland - he was unhappy with the decisions made to get him support.

Yeah, “at that point in his career” being the key factor.

Since then, he’s taken the pseudo-GM thing to unprecedented new levels, over and over again.

OK, I don't totally agree with that, but agree he has major influence over how his team operates.
If you don't consider his his first stint with Cleveland as one of 'psuedo-GM', which I don't, I don't think you can consider his 'reign as pseudo-GM' as a failure.
He's won three titles and has been to the title game every single year as 'psuedo-GM' except for this one.

Doesn't mean that there's isn't a bunch of drama that goes with it, because there is, but he's done fairly well for himself if you are considering him both player and GM.

And this all assumes that this "GMing" is happening, which is at best an assumption.

twocoach wrote: ↑Tue Jun 18, 2019 11:04 am

jfish26 wrote: ↑Tue Jun 18, 2019 10:55 am

twocoach wrote: ↑Tue Jun 18, 2019 10:53 am Oh no. The horror.

I'm not saying it's right or wrong, but a good amount of people will say Kobe had a better career, based on the titles.

Nevermind - I am saying that's wrong. But lots and lots of people will think this.

Oh, I know. But just a reminder that just because "lots and lots of people" think doesn't mean it's a good idea...

4 in 10 Americans dont know what Auschwitz was.

37% of polled Americans could not name a single right protected by the Bill of Rights and 33% could not name one branch of the government.

25% of polled Americans thought the sun orbited the earth.

34% or Americans reject evolution entirely.

We are a nation with "lots and lots" of morons.

Did they only poll Mississippi?

twocoach wrote: ↑Tue Jun 18, 2019 1:23 pm The game is so nuanced that it's hard to call one guy the greatest player. To me, Jordan is the best modern day scorer and competitor while James is the better overall player. It's a totally different NBA now than it was in MJ's days. Heck, the whole NBA changed in the middle of MJ's career with the early departure of Bird and Magic along with massive expansion.

MJ wins the "right guy at the right time" award for sure, though. He was the perfect athlete for the sport at the time. No athlete since Ali has benefitted more by the changing media and culture of his times.

MJ would dominate this era of basketball. He also would've dominated the era before him, though with less media coverage.

TDub wrote: ↑Tue Jun 18, 2019 2:00 pm

twocoach wrote: ↑Tue Jun 18, 2019 11:04 am

jfish26 wrote: ↑Tue Jun 18, 2019 10:55 am

I'm not saying it's right or wrong, but a good amount of people will say Kobe had a better career, based on the titles.

Nevermind - I am saying that's wrong. But lots and lots of people will think this.

Oh, I know. But just a reminder that just because "lots and lots of people" think doesn't mean it's a good idea...

4 in 10 Americans dont know what Auschwitz was.

37% of polled Americans could not name a single right protected by the Bill of Rights and 33% could not name one branch of the government.

25% of polled Americans thought the sun orbited the earth.

34% or Americans reject evolution entirely.

We are a nation with "lots and lots" of morons.

Did they only poll Mississippi?

If they had then the percentages would have likely been in the 70s instead of the 30s.

twocoach wrote: ↑Tue Jun 18, 2019 10:49 am

Sparko wrote: ↑Tue Jun 18, 2019 10:43 am Yeah. LeBron isn’t the best GM

Doesn't he have 9 NBA Finals appearances and 3 NBA titles? Seems like he is doing just fine.

To you and I maybe it seems like he's doing just fine but to the Heat fans he thought he was going to win 8 championships for - maybe not so much.
If you're going to talk the talk it's best to walk the walk - because if you don't, fair or not, you're going to be considered a failure.

I don't consider LeBron a failure.
I'm going to guess there's a good number of Heat fans who don't consider him a failure.

Is he going to eventually be considered THE GOAT? Probably not.
Will he be brought up in conversations when people talk about THE GOAT? Yes.

Paul1 wrote: ↑Tue Jun 18, 2019 2:46 pm

twocoach wrote: ↑Tue Jun 18, 2019 10:49 am

Sparko wrote: ↑Tue Jun 18, 2019 10:43 am Yeah. LeBron isn’t the best GM

Doesn't he have 9 NBA Finals appearances and 3 NBA titles? Seems like he is doing just fine.

To you and I maybe it seems like he's doing just fine but to the Heat fans he thought he was going to win 8 championships for - maybe not so much.
If you're going to talk the talk it's best to walk the walk - because if you don't, fair or not, you're going to be considered a failure.

That's as silly as holding a politician to every promise they made at every campaign stop in every town of their campaign. That's guys getting a crowd hyped, not predicting the future. Yeesh.

pdub wrote: ↑Tue Jun 18, 2019 3:00 pm I don't consider LeBron a failure.
I'm going to guess there's a good number of Heat fans who don't consider him a failure.

Is he going to eventually be considered THE GOAT? Probably not.
Will he be brought up in conversations when people talk about THE GOAT? Yes.

Yep. MJ guys will always say its MJ, even if James wins 4 more titles the next 4 years. James guys will say it's James even if he doesn't win another one. It's an endless debate.

pdub - He's hardly a failure and I would hope the Heat fans wouldn't consider him a failure.
One thing he has failed to do - in which I believe 99.?% of those who have played NBA Basketball have also failed to do - is win a championship every season he's played. Realistic or not, that should be every player's and every team's goal each and every season. To win a championship.
More than once LeBron gave basically a bunch of stiffs a great chance to win a championship by completely riding on his coattails. For that I will always give him credit and feel every true Basketball fan should as well. I have seen the man do some absolutely incredible things.
No one can seriously say he's not one of the best to ever play the game.
All that being said, there are always going to be people looking to tarnish legacies.
Using a losing record in the Finals is a shitty way to do it but haters gonna hate.

twocoach wrote: ↑Tue Jun 18, 2019 3:40 pm

pdub wrote: ↑Tue Jun 18, 2019 3:00 pm I don't consider LeBron a failure.
I'm going to guess there's a good number of Heat fans who don't consider him a failure.

Is he going to eventually be considered THE GOAT? Probably not.
Will he be brought up in conversations when people talk about THE GOAT? Yes.

Yep. MJ guys will always say its MJ, even if James wins 4 more titles the next 4 years. James guys will say it's James even if he doesn't win another one. It's an endless debate.

nope

i’m an MJ guy, but would elevate the cry baby if he were to do something like that